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Old 07-18-2016, 11:43 AM   #21
Matt Arnold
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This will be fixed in the next update.
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Old 07-18-2016, 12:03 PM   #22
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Awesome, thanks!
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Old 07-18-2016, 03:10 PM   #23
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deleted post, didn't see Matt's post before replying

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Old 07-18-2016, 05:58 PM   #24
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This will be fixed in the next update.
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Old 07-18-2016, 07:09 PM   #25
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I'm certain that the vocal majority on these boards is solo game focused and only find this post out of line because they lack perspective.
I am almost purely an online player and I found your post out of line because of the way you brought up the issue in the general forum. I understand your frustration but you could have handled it in a much more appropriate way.

Did you open a support ticket regarding the issue? I did after you posted it here and that ticket was addressed. Did you PM the developers in these forums? I did and got responses from 2 of them.

The point is there were other ways to address the issue without telling everyone how they could exploit the issue. By posting the way you did you have exposed many more online leagues to possible issues. I have been playing since well before 2009 and I was not aware of this exploit until I read your post.

Ultimately the issue is getting address and that is what is most important. I'd just ask that you consider the consequences before advertising such a flaw in detail and in a general forum in the future.
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Old 07-18-2016, 10:12 PM   #26
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I guess he got the point across, and received some attention but I agree with byzeil it could have been handle better with maybe a bit more thought and patients.
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Old 07-21-2016, 03:06 PM   #27
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This is fantastic. If you patch this, everyone in the 30-person league I'm in will upgrade to ootp17.

The only other major hole in online leagues -- though it's not an issue in mine currently -- is there's no way to prevent the commissioner from looking at or editing true ratings. There's also no way to know if they do.
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Old 07-21-2016, 03:12 PM   #28
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The only other major hole in online leagues -- though it's not an issue in mine currently -- is there's no way to prevent the commissioner from looking at or editing true ratings. There's also no way to know if they do.
I brought this up before as I believe it's a huge issue with online integrity. There needs to be a way to block the ratings or submit some kind of report. Unfortunately, online play is very low on their priorities list
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Old 07-21-2016, 03:59 PM   #29
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I brought this up before as I believe it's a huge issue with online integrity. There needs to be a way to block the ratings or submit some kind of report. Unfortunately, online play is very low on their priorities list
Well, if you don't trust your commissioner not to cheat, then I would suggest finding a new online league. I mean, there's nothing stopping them from simming games and killing the process until their team wins.

Sure, having some sort of "audit log" that says that the commish edited someone's ratings would be nice, but it's a lot of work for a function that should not be needed. And we obviously still have to allow the commissioner to edit ratings, since many times they need to edit things to account for house rules. It's like a single player game - I can easily switch to commissioner mode, edit player ratings, and then go out, but I trust myself not to do that. I would hope that an online league commissioner would have the same trustworthiness.
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Old 07-21-2016, 04:54 PM   #30
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The online league I participate in streams simulations live, so the commissioner can't cheat in the way you've described (i.e., re-simming until they get a result they like).

Whether you like it or not, the fact that commissioners have the ability to look at and edit ratings is a big issue in online leagues. Even though I trust my current commissioner, I also trusted my old one. The only way we were able to find out that he was editing players was because of a player development update bug (%r showed up when a player learned a new pitch from an edit, I believe).

Much better than an audit log would simply be a restricted view. There's no reason for my league's commissioner to edit ratings or see them, but every time he changes a player's name they're right in plain sight. Of course, I have no idea what the system looks like from a development perspective, but even if there were an imperfect solution it would be better than what we have currently. I alluded to a log because I thought that might be easier to implement than creating another access-level for online commissioners.

I hope I'm not coming off as bitter, because I really enjoy the game and am grateful you're working to fix the online exploit in the OP. It's just that the online experience would be drastically improved if we didn't have to unnecessarily entrust a person with the power to cheat.

Last edited by NarWil; 07-21-2016 at 05:03 PM.
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Old 08-02-2016, 11:52 AM   #31
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@ Matt: i guess working on the game, you guys never actually played in an online league, have you?

It is easy to say, dont play in a league if u dont trust the commish. I have dropped a league in the past because of that. I have no proof of any wrongdoing tehre, but something just felt wrong. So i resigned from that league.

I am only in one league atm, and the commish is very capable, and i do trust him. We do run daily livesims, so the "resim cheat until a good result" is not possible anyway.

Oftentimes, you have a commish that (if he isnt braindead) alters things only slightly. And only if he makes an obvious mistake, the members realize it. By that time they may have spent months playing which all seems like wasted time now.

I dont know if its feasible to address the issue of restricting commish access, but to basically ignore it seems like a slap in the face for anyone who plays this game for the onlineleagues.

i only got back into ootp because of those. without, i might buy a copy of the game once every few years at the AS break (for 50% off) as opposed to upgrading promptly with each new version for the leagues.
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Old 08-03-2016, 01:41 AM   #32
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Correct, launch was 4 months ago but you did not post your bug report until this past Saturday..... Maybe your tone is the reason you are not getting responses.



If this is something that is being exploited by the people in your league, then the problem does lie with the owners in the league...just because the exploit is there doesn't mean they have to use it....so again, it sounds like the problem lies with them, not fully on the game.




I run a league and Quick Starting is a complete mess! Even if no one talks about it in your league doesn't mean they aren't doing it. Its a way to cheat that is ruining online leagues. You cant stop it, nor control it. And now most people who aren't commish know about it that I cant trust that most people aren't doing this to get an advantage.
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Old 08-03-2016, 01:44 AM   #33
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Quickstarting is only a problem for leagues that make scouting useful. In a no-scout league with 1-20 or 1-100 ratings, it's fairly useless.


That's not true, in QS you can see True Ratings in the Editor. Why scout a player when you already know if he's going to be good or not.
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Old 08-03-2016, 10:48 AM   #34
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I agree about the need for a Commish log.


It is very tough to be in any online league where the Commissioner is also dominating the league. Even if you have no evidence of any wrongdoing, just the idea of the commissioner winning over everybody else inherently creates a bit of wondering. Or when the commissioner has a stud player develop from nowhere.


A log would work to show any edits, and would be even more useful if it showed that a Player Editor had simply been entered. (Of course, a sneaky commissioner could get around this by cloning the league and looking under the hood in the clone).


I understand the need to trust your commissioner but its very hard to imagine that there aren't some leagues out there where a competitive commissioner doesn't at the LEAST take a peek. Perhaps before a big trade?




Speaking of exploits, I've seen some EXTREMELY team friendly contract extensions being handed out that could have only been done with testing - using either the Quick Start cheat to advance in the schedule or at a minimum making an offer to a player, seeing his reaction, and Killing the Task.

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Old 08-03-2016, 07:10 PM   #35
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It is very tough to be in any online league where the Commissioner is also dominating the league. Even if you have no evidence of any wrongdoing, just the idea of the commissioner winning over everybody else inherently creates a bit of wondering. Or when the commissioner has a stud player develop from nowhere.
So true, been there, done that.
However, there is also a bit of this pre-conceived notion from a lot of (newb?) players that the Commish somehow
HAS TO BE a better player than everyone else, or has some 'inside game information', hence why else would they be running a league?

In the end, no matter what the safeguards are, It all comes down to trust, and what kind of a person one is.
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Old 08-12-2016, 02:28 PM   #36
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Was this resolved?
If so, how?
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Old 08-12-2016, 04:43 PM   #37
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Well, if you don't trust your commissioner not to cheat, then I would suggest finding a new online league. I mean, there's nothing stopping them from simming games and killing the process until their team wins.

Sure, having some sort of "audit log" that says that the commish edited someone's ratings would be nice, but it's a lot of work for a function that should not be needed. And we obviously still have to allow the commissioner to edit ratings, since many times they need to edit things to account for house rules. It's like a single player game - I can easily switch to commissioner mode, edit player ratings, and then go out, but I trust myself not to do that. I would hope that an online league commissioner would have the same trustworthiness.
that's not a fair opinion to have. It's like saying if I don't feel safe enough to leave my house unlocked, i should move to another house. No matter where I live, if someone really wants in my house, they can get in. The lock is a simple deterrent.

It's the same thing with a commish log or a locked editor. It's a deterrent. And like others have pointed out, it's hard to have 100% trust in your commish, especially if they are having great success. It just makes you wonder. And as a commish and a GM of a highly successful team, I know some people wonder. Some have even joked about it and if they're joking, they probably thought about it.

Online leagues need more transparency. I know it's not a very sexy thing to add to the features list of a new game, but it's needed.
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Old 08-12-2016, 05:29 PM   #38
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Was this resolved?
If so, how?
Yes. As a GM in an online league the option to 'save current game as quickstart' is no longer available in the latest patch.
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Old 08-12-2016, 05:47 PM   #39
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Are you guys all playing for money or something? I've never understood why someone would cheat in an online league.
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Old 08-12-2016, 08:50 PM   #40
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Yes. As a GM in an online league the option to 'save current game as quickstart' is no longer available in the latest patch.
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