I know I'm really playihg historical because

David Watts · 06-08-2017, 07:05 PM

It's 1914 and Harry "Swats" Swacina is leading not only the NL, but the entire MLB with 130 strikeouts on July 16th. Pitching strikeouts not hitting strikeouts.

If I start having any doubts, I just look to the 1914 Detroit Tigers and their starting rotation. Duke "Iron Duke" Kenworthy is second in wins on a second place Tigers team. He's 11-6 with a 2.48 ERA. Yup those are just a couple ways I know I'm really playing historical.

actionjackson · 06-08-2017, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

It's 1914 and Harry "Swats" Swacina is leading not only the NL, but the entire MLB with 130 strikeouts on July 16th. Pitching strikeouts not hitting strikeouts.

If I start having any doubts, I just look to the 1914 Detroit Tigers and their starting rotation. Duke "Iron Duke" Kenworthy is second in wins on a second place Tigers team. He's 11-6 with a 2.48 ERA. Yup those are just a couple ways I know I'm really playing historical.

Swacina never pitched, even in the minors. However, Kenworthy was a pitcher in the minors, before becoming a position player. If these two came from the MiLB database, Swacina doesn't make any sense, but Kenworthy might.

Spritze · 06-09-2017, 12:38 AM

Swacina pitched 56 games in the minor leagues. Over 4 years.

David Watts · 06-09-2017, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

Swacina pitched 56 games in the minor leagues. Over 4 years.

I guess my next question is, does the above warrant a guy leading the majors in strikeouts? 1 year recalc is being used.

DawnBTVS · 06-09-2017, 10:00 AM

Curious how the stats bear out/the source of his Federal League numbers (also his 1919 IRL pitching are the same numbers as 1915 with Baltimore).

In 1914, he is playing for the Baltimore Terrapins in the Federal League and has 649 PA. All the other SP are topping out at around 90 PA so how is Swacina able to get 649 PA and throw 239 IP?

Next year, Jack Quinn starts 31 games and leads all SP with just 121 PA but Swacina nets 319 PA in 85 games and throws 125 IP? For comparison, Rankin Johnson had just 57 PA but threw 150.2 IP.

Spritze · 06-09-2017, 10:42 AM

Some Federal League stuff was fixed a month or two ago. They will appear whenever the next update happens. That was just an error. Errors happen. They get fixed when/as they get reported. Historical does not equal perfection until lots of play happens so the data can get debugged. Help if you can please by reporting anything off you find.

David Watts · 06-09-2017, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

Some Federal League stuff was fixed a month or two ago. They will appear whenever the next update happens. That was just an error. Errors happen. They get fixed when/as they get reported. Historical does not equal perfection until lots of play happens so the data can get debugged. Help if you can please by reporting anything off you find.

I just wish while all these things were getting ironed out, Historical could go back to being user friendly and adaptable, like it was before OOTP17. We need the ability to create leagues, edit league structure, relocate teams etc and most importantly erase all history. I know the ability to do this in prior versions was due to a bug--that was fixed for 17, but why not give us the ability to choose whether we want players that miss a season to return or not? That one option would make historical adaptable again. I know playing this way isn't truly playing historical, but using historical minors isn't truly historical either. It never will be. When I play 1971 and Al Kaline gets hurt in the first game of the season and the AI doesn't move Jim Northrup to RF and play Mickey Stanley in CF, but instead promotes some guy named Filbert Kibblesworth that never played above A ball, the game has quickly ceased being historical.

I would love to be able to create leagues using just the historical player database or combo of that and the Negro League database. These could be fictional league setups, but using real minor league players.

Spritze · 06-09-2017, 12:48 PM

These things may never all be ironed out. There are millions of stats involved. It should get better every update as errors are reported. Perfect not so much.

Historical functions as the OOTP developers wish it to. I too have things I would like to see in the game. I am sure things will progress as people are working on stuff constantly.

Please make use of the bug report forum. Historical issues posted there are usually fixed within 24 hrs. That ain't bad.

Spritze · 06-09-2017, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

I just wish while all these things were getting ironed out, Historical could go back to being user friendly and adaptable, like it was before OOTP17.

You should be ale to figure out why this is if you think on the corporate business level rather than your personal gameplay level. If you give it some thought you should get your Ah-Ha moment. Won't necessarily make you happier but you will understand why your request is not (currently) being acted upon.

David Watts · 06-09-2017, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

You should be ale to figure out why this is if you think on the corporate business level rather than your personal gameplay level. If you give it some thought you should get your Ah-Ha moment. Won't necessarily make you happier but you will understand why your request is not (currently) being acted upon.

I never have Ah-Ha moments,, I was born that way.

Spritze · 06-09-2017, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Watts

I never have Ah-Ha moments,, I was born that way.

Ah-Ha, well that explains a lot.

actionjackson · 06-09-2017, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

Swacina pitched 56 games in the minor leagues. Over 4 years.

I'm sorry Spritze, but there are no pitching stats for Swacina in the majors or the minors that I could find at BB-Ref. Are you using some other source for him? I thought everything had been switched over to BB-Ref. Looks to me like he was a 1B/OF (1B only after 1906) for his whole career with the exception of two innings at 2B in 1915 with the Baltimore Terrapins of the Federal League. To my way of thinking there is nothing there that shows Swacina should be pitching much, let alone leading a league in strikeouts by a country mile.

Spritze · 06-09-2017, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by actionjackson

I'm sorry Spritze, but there are no pitching stats for Swacina in the majors or the minors that I could find at BB-Ref. Are you using some other source for him? Yes, bbref is very incomplete in many years I thought everything had been switched over to BB-Ref. Looks to me like he was a 1B/OF (1B only after 1906) for his whole career with the exception of two innings at 2B in 1915 with the Baltimore Terrapins of the Federal League. To my way of thinking there is nothing there that shows Swacina should be pitching much, let alone leading a league in strikeouts by a country mile.

As mentioned earlier many Federal League updates have occurred in the last months that have yet to appear in game.

actionjackson · 06-09-2017, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

As mentioned earlier many Federal League updates have occurred in the last months that have yet to appear in game.

You must have an offline statistical source that has him as a pitcher, because none of the online sources that I've looked at do.

Spritze · 06-09-2017, 08:05 PM

Expand your horizons. There are even paper things published as far back as the 1880's in my library. Known as books in their time. Some even have pictures! They cannot really be viewed very well under water though. Someday robot butlers might read you some of them.

BaseballMan · 06-09-2017, 09:20 PM

These are the times i wished "Total Baseball" and "Sports Encylopedia of Baseball" was still released every year.

swampdragon · 06-11-2017, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spritze

Swacina pitched 56 games in the minor leagues. Over 4 years.

Which four years? I can't find any evidence at all that he pitched in the Southern Association, where he spent most of his minor league career. and I have the Marshall Wright book that is supposed to be the best one on that league and goes back to when Swacina was three.

I checked his minor league pitching stats on OOTP in a 1914 historical start, and I only found the Harrisburg Senators of the Tri-State League with 8 starts and stats that don't fit the era or what we know about the player.

Spritze · 06-11-2017, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swampdragon

stats that don't fit the era or what we know about the player.

I have zero idea what you are pointing to here. In general stats of this era come from the Spalding and Reach guides. If the actual stats do not fit you must acquit.

swampdragon · 06-11-2017, 06:30 PM

OK, here are the relevant stats from the OOTP minor league listing in 1909.
HA SE: (Harrisburg Senators, I assume, since that is who he played for) G: 8, GS: 8, W:2, L 2, S 1 (despite no relief appearances), IP 33, K 46. BABIP .424.

First. no one in 1909 has that kind of strikeout rate, much less a 27 year old OF-1B who never pitched again. Second, no one who started 8 games would only pitch 33 innings in the first place. Third, I'm not aware of a source in 1909 for the Tri-State League that would give you those stats. He had 150 AB for the team, and I can't tell looking on BB-Ref that the team had any pitchers, much less a career first basemen striking out batters at a higher rate than anyone in the majors.

Spritze · 06-11-2017, 08:23 PM

Keep in mind that BBref is not used. You keep missing that point.

I'll double check all his pitching stats once 2016 neutralized stats are finished. There are 4 years worth per the db.

06-08-2017, 07:05 PM	#1
David Watts Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Looking for a place called Leehofooks Posts: 8,865	I know I'm really playihg historical because It's 1914 and Harry "Swats" Swacina is leading not only the NL, but the entire MLB with 130 strikeouts on July 16th. Pitching strikeouts not hitting strikeouts. If I start having any doubts, I just look to the 1914 Detroit Tigers and their starting rotation. Duke "Iron Duke" Kenworthy is second in wins on a second place Tigers team. He's 11-6 with a 2.48 ERA. Yup those are just a couple ways I know I'm really playing historical. Last edited by David Watts; 06-08-2017 at 07:37 PM.

06-09-2017, 12:38 AM	#3
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,254	Swacina pitched 56 games in the minor leagues. Over 4 years. __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!

06-09-2017, 10:42 AM	#6
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,254	Some Federal League stuff was fixed a month or two ago. They will appear whenever the next update happens. That was just an error. Errors happen. They get fixed when/as they get reported. Historical does not equal perfection until lots of play happens so the data can get debugged. Help if you can please by reporting anything off you find. __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!

06-09-2017, 12:48 PM	#8
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,254	These things may never all be ironed out. There are millions of stats involved. It should get better every update as errors are reported. Perfect not so much. Historical functions as the OOTP developers wish it to. I too have things I would like to see in the game. I am sure things will progress as people are working on stuff constantly. Please make use of the bug report forum. Historical issues posted there are usually fixed within 24 hrs. That ain't bad. __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!

06-09-2017, 08:05 PM	#15
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,254	Expand your horizons. There are even paper things published as far back as the 1880's in my library. Known as books in their time. Some even have pictures! They cannot really be viewed very well under water though. Someday robot butlers might read you some of them. __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!

06-09-2017, 10:00 AM	#5
DawnBTVS Major Leagues Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: USA Posts: 416	Curious how the stats bear out/the source of his Federal League numbers (also his 1919 IRL pitching are the same numbers as 1915 with Baltimore). In 1914, he is playing for the Baltimore Terrapins in the Federal League and has 649 PA. All the other SP are topping out at around 90 PA so how is Swacina able to get 649 PA and throw 239 IP? Next year, Jack Quinn starts 31 games and leads all SP with just 121 PA but Swacina nets 319 PA in 85 games and throws 125 IP? For comparison, Rankin Johnson had just 57 PA but threw 150.2 IP.

06-09-2017, 09:20 PM	#16
BaseballMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,266	These are the times i wished "Total Baseball" and "Sports Encylopedia of Baseball" was still released every year.

06-11-2017, 06:30 PM	#19
swampdragon Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Lonely Mountain Posts: 2,509	OK, here are the relevant stats from the OOTP minor league listing in 1909. HA SE: (Harrisburg Senators, I assume, since that is who he played for) G: 8, GS: 8, W:2, L 2, S 1 (despite no relief appearances), IP 33, K 46. BABIP .424. First. no one in 1909 has that kind of strikeout rate, much less a 27 year old OF-1B who never pitched again. Second, no one who started 8 games would only pitch 33 innings in the first place. Third, I'm not aware of a source in 1909 for the Tri-State League that would give you those stats. He had 150 AB for the team, and I can't tell looking on BB-Ref that the team had any pitchers, much less a career first basemen striking out batters at a higher rate than anyone in the majors. __________________ “Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies." -- C.S. Lewis

06-11-2017, 08:23 PM	#20
Spritze OOTP Historical Czar Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Bothell Wa Posts: 7,254	Keep in mind that BBref is not used. You keep missing that point. I'll double check all his pitching stats once 2016 neutralized stats are finished. There are 4 years worth per the db. __________________ It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!