Anniversary: Immaculate Reception

[Cobra Mgr]

"Do not answer the stupid one according to his foolishness, so that you do not put yourself on his level." - Proverbs 26:4

[Rasmuth]

It was truly a great moment in a sport known for great moments. I was neither a Raiders or Steelers fan. I met Franco Harris in 1984...dude was not tall, but damn he was wide. Nice guy too.

[Brad K]

Franco is a super nice guy. When they did the special in 2010, Bob Costas with Bobby Richardson, Dick Groat, and Bill Virdon as the interviewees while they showed the film of the 7th game of the 60 WS, Harris was in the audience.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

I don't think Madden was talking about the ref signaling the td as much as he was more likely talking about how the officials had to get together before finally making the call. I know its a common scene now but back then i don't believe they discussed or reviewed calls that much. If my memory is correct, i think the nfl still didn't review calls when Mike Renfro made his td catch against the steelers in the 1979 AFC championship game that was ruled incomplete.

The refs briefly got together in the back of the endzone, discussed it momentarily, then decided he failed the ten toes down challenge.

[BaseballMan]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

The refs briefly got together in the back of the endzone, discussed it momentarily, then decided he failed the ten toes down challenge.

I think Renfro's catch was a touchdown and the refs would have ruled that way if they could have reviewed it. However i don't believe the oilers were ever good enough to beat the steelers in the playoffs. The steelers had too many weapons on offense and defense.
The oilers really never should have made it to the AFC championship.
But the raiders and dolphins were both retooling and the chargers were well the chargers. Sorry but a Don Coryell team was never gonna win you a championship. Heck of a coach but i wouldn't want him to coach my team in a big game.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

However i don't believe the oilers were ever good enough to beat the steelers in the playoffs. The steelers had too many weapons on offense and defense.
The oilers really never should have made it to the AFC championship.

They split the series w/the Steelers 2 yrs in a row, finished tied for the 2nd best record in the NFL in '79, 1 game behind Pittsburgh, lost by a TD in that game, yet you say Houston never should have made the AFC title game for the 2nd year in a row?

[BaseballMan]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

They split the series w/the Steelers 2 yrs in a row, finished tied for the 2nd best record in the NFL in '79, 1 game behind Pittsburgh, lost by a TD in that game, yet you say Houston never should have made the AFC title game for the 2nd year in a row?

How many points did they lose by the first time?
Like i said they would never have made it that far if the raiders and dolphins were as good in 78 and 79 as they were in years past. I just don't see them getting past all three. Yeah the broncos squeezed in there but they had a great defense.

Sure they beat the steelers in the regular season but how did they do in the playoffs? They just didn't have the depth.
Look how quickly they fell after Earl Campbell started to decline.
Getting an aging Stabler was a band aid but by 82 and 83 they pretty much it rock bottom and may have been worse than they were before 77.
If they had Warren Moon in some of those Campbell years things might have been different.

You can only run Campbell so many times and depending on Dan Pastorini is not the same as having a Bradshaw or Stabler back there.
Not saying those oiler teams were bad but i just never saw them as super bowl teams.
To me they were like last few cowboy playoff teams. I never thought those cowboy teams would make it to the super bowl.
But then again i never thought the 80 raiders and 87 redskins were gonna win it all either.
If i had to pick an AFC team i thought should have made it to the super bowl between 78-82 i would have picked the chargers. But in the playoffs they were the well the chargers. Not much as changed since then.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

They split the series w/the Steelers 2 yrs in a row, finished tied for the 2nd best record in the NFL in '79, 1 game behind Pittsburgh, lost by a TD in that game, yet you say Houston never should have made the AFC title game for the 2nd year in a row?

As a Cowboys fan I remember that miserable season all too well. Which means I also remember many of the situations at that time.

The Chargers had the tie breaker over Pittsburgh because they stomped them into the dirt 35-7 in the regular season. No one expected the Oilers to go into San Diego and win. One could say the Steelers got lucky to get a home game against the Oilers than have to travel to San Diego. Similar to what happened in the NFC in 1995.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

I think Renfro's catch was a touchdown and the refs would have ruled that way if they could have reviewed it. However i don't believe the oilers were ever good enough to beat the steelers in the playoffs. The steelers had too many weapons on offense and defense.
The oilers really never should have made it to the AFC championship.
But the raiders and dolphins were both retooling and the chargers were well the chargers. Sorry but a Don Coryell team was never gonna win you a championship. Heck of a coach but i wouldn't want him to coach my team in a big game.

That was a catch, no question about it. But I think you're right that Houston, like the Cowboys, just fell a bit short of the Steelers.

I liked Coryell, but he rarely had a good defense. You could do much worse in coaching than him.

[BaseballMan]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

As a Cowboys fan I remember that miserable season all too well. Which means I also remember many of the situations at that time.

The Chargers had the tie breaker over Pittsburgh because they stomped them into the dirt 35-7 in the regular season. No one expected the Oilers to go into San Diego and win. One could say the Steelers got lucky to get a home game against the Oilers than have to travel to San Diego. Similar to what happened in the NFC in 1995.

Yeah i remember Vernon Perry had a big day. But in 78-79 i think the steelers would have beat almost any team. They were very good.
Kinda like The 66-67 Packers. Maybe not as good as 61-62 but they weren't gonna lose to the cowboys. Though i see those cowboy teams having a better chance than the 78 oilers did against the steelers.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

How many points did they lose by the first time?
Like i said they would never have made it that far if the raiders and dolphins were as good in 78 and 79 as they were in years past. I just don't see them getting past all three. Yeah the broncos squeezed in there but they had a great defense.

Your argument is the Oilers weren't worthy of being the runner up in the AFC, because no one else in the AFC was good enough.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

Yeah i remember Vernon Perry had a big day. But in 78-79 i think the steelers would have beat almost any team. They were very good.
Kinda like The 66-67 Packers. Maybe not as good as 61-62 but they weren't gonna lose to the cowboys. Though i see those cowboy teams having a better chance than the 78 oilers did against the steelers.

I don't know. I just remember wanting the Steelers to go to SD and play them again. But they lost to the Oilers, and I don't even think Campbell was playing! The AFC Championship game didn't matter to me because the Cowboys lost to the underdog Rams yet again.

Here's a sad stat. Dating back to but not including 1975 the Cowboys have won 4 playoff games on the road.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by swoboda

1. It was incredible to watch on live TV while it happened.
2. Couldn't believe that last Raider closing in on Franco on the sideline couldn't catch him
3. How you view that play pretty much depends on which team you root for.

Even if he did catch him, he would have been out of bounds somewhere between the 5-10 yard line. Remember, the score was 7-6 and there was still time on the clock. Of course FGs back then were not a guarantee.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by swoboda

3. How you view that play pretty much depends on which team you root for.

Saw it live on TV and I was at the time a huge Raiders fan.

[BaseballMan]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Your argument is the Oilers weren't worthy of being the runner up in the AFC, because no one else in the AFC was good enough.

I didn't say they weren't worthy but rather probably not as good as the steelers.
That wasn't all i said. You left out depending too much on Campbell, not enough depth and having Pastorini at qb.
If that wasn't a big part of it then tell me why only one other afc team made it to the superbowl between 1972-1981 besides Pittsburgh, Miami and Oakland. There was less teams so there was less parity than there is today. When it came to the playoffs in the 70's the great teams may get upset but it was usually to another great team. How many times did the Vikings and cowboys go to the super bowl in the 70's? There just wasn't the parity we have these days when compared to that time. So you had great teams, some good teams and crap. Not a lot of it blended together when it came to the playoffs.
There was always the chance the oilers would beat the steelers in the playoffs but the oilers were dominated the first game and stat wise the steelers controlled the 2nd game as well. You can play what ifs with the Renfro catch but the oilers weren't going to beat the steelers in the playoffs. They just weren't. I was actually hoping the oilers would win but
i really didn't think they had much of a chance.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

I didn't say they weren't worthy but rather probably not as good as the steelers.
That wasn't all i said. You left out depending too much on Campbell, not enough depth and having Pastorini at qb.
If that wasn't a big part of it then tell me why only one other afc team made it to the superbowl between 1972-1981 besides Pittsburgh, Miami and Oakland. There was less teams so there was less parity than there is today. When it came to the playoffs in the 70's the great teams may get upset but it was usually to another great team. How many times did the Vikings and cowboys go to the super bowl in the 70's? There just wasn't the parity we have these days when compared to that time. So you had great teams, some good teams and crap. Not a lot of it blended together when it came to the playoffs.
There was always the chance the oilers would beat the steelers in the playoffs but the oilers were dominated the first game and stat wise the steelers controlled the 2nd game as well. You can play what ifs with the Renfro catch but the oilers weren't going to beat the steelers in the playoffs. They just weren't. I was actually hoping the oilers would win but
i really didn't think they had much of a chance.

Very well said. I too was hoping Houston would knock them off but I knew it wasn't going to happen. It was a lot of wishful thinking.

The NFL had a lot of great years before the cap. I'm not sure that this era of parity is better than the past. We see a lot more mediocre play and a lot fewer great teams. In the 70s, 80s, and 90s, we saw a lot of great teams. This century we saw the 2013 Seahawks and the 2007 Patriots who didn't even win. We don't see great teams anymore, just teams that get hot.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

I didn't say they weren't worthy but rather probably not as good as the steelers.

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

The oilers really never should have made it to the AFC championship.

[BaseballMan]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

You seem to be ignoring ever thing else and focusing on one thing.
Do you not understand that a team can be a worthy opponent and still not good enough to win?

[BaseballMan]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

Very well said. I too was hoping Houston would knock them off but I knew it wasn't going to happen. It was a lot of wishful thinking.

The NFL had a lot of great years before the cap. I'm not sure that this era of parity is better than the past. We see a lot more mediocre play and a lot fewer great teams. In the 70s, 80s, and 90s, we saw a lot of great teams. This century we saw the 2013 Seahawks and the 2007 Patriots who didn't even win. We don't see great teams anymore, just teams that get hot.

Yeah i kinda like both eras but if you weren't a fan of the top teams in the 70's it kinda sucked. But sometimes there were surprises like the 81 49ers.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

You seem to be ignoring ever thing else and focusing on one thing.
Do you not understand that a team can be a worthy opponent and still not good enough to win?

I'm focusing on one thing because that is the only thing I object to.

And you didn't say Houston was worthy. I QUOTED you. You are like Charles Barkley claiming he was misquoted in his autobiography in denying what was said. If you "misspoke" fine. It happens to all of us. But saying "they never should have made it" implies it was a fluke or a stroke of luck. And IMO, it was far from it.