Home | Webstore
Latest News: OOTP 25 Available - FHM 10 Available - OOTP Go! Available

Out of the Park Baseball 25 Buy Now!

  

Go Back   OOTP Developments Forums > Prior Versions of Our Games > Out of the Park Baseball 15 > OOTP 15 - General Discussions

OOTP 15 - General Discussions Discuss the new 2014 version of Out of the Park Baseball here!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-14-2015, 04:56 PM   #1
Westheim
Hall Of Famer
 
Westheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 11,803
How is this an earned run?

What the title says. Randyboy was booked with an earned run for this inning. He walks Jenkins, who advances to second on a botched pickoff by the catcher. Randy then throws a wild pitch before the runner is singled home. If the runner gained a base on an error I would have assumed the run is unearned unless he scores on a home run f.e.?
Attached Images
Image 
__________________
Portland Raccoons, 83 years of excell-.... of baseball: Furballs here!
1983 * 1989 * 1991 * 1992 * 1993 * 1995 * 1996 * 2010 * 2017 * 2018 * 2019 * 2026 * 2028 * 2035 * 2037 * 2044 * 2045 * 2046 * 2047 * 2048 * 2051 * 2054 * 2055
1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA | RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO

Resident Mets Cynic - The Mets from 1962 onwards, here.
Westheim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2015, 05:09 PM   #2
tomwolf2008
Major Leagues
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 359
Well, if there isn't an error, the wild pitch will get him to second, single will get him to third, and fielder's choice will get him home, so the run scores regardless of error, thus it's an earned run.
tomwolf2008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2015, 05:22 PM   #3
Westheim
Hall Of Famer
 
Westheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 11,803
That sounds convincing but doesn't explain why the run was given as earned instantly after it scored.
__________________
Portland Raccoons, 83 years of excell-.... of baseball: Furballs here!
1983 * 1989 * 1991 * 1992 * 1993 * 1995 * 1996 * 2010 * 2017 * 2018 * 2019 * 2026 * 2028 * 2035 * 2037 * 2044 * 2045 * 2046 * 2047 * 2048 * 2051 * 2054 * 2055
1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA | RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO

Resident Mets Cynic - The Mets from 1962 onwards, here.
Westheim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2015, 05:30 PM   #4
Izz
Hall Of Famer
 
Izz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,466
Single into rightfield would probably have scored him anyway if he'd still been at 2nd (BB, wild pitch, single)?
__________________
Not only do I play OOTP but I also write science-fiction: My Website

A brief history of the Australia-New Zealand Baseball League (AUNZBL 2019-2119)--A Dynasty Report
The National Penterham Four-Bases Association--A Dynasty Report
Izz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2015, 05:42 PM   #5
RchW
Hall Of Famer
 
RchW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The big smoke
Posts: 15,628
Wild pitches do not affect earned runs. Passed balls do. Essentially PB are an extra error category for catchers.
__________________
Cheers

RichW

#stopthestupid

“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

Last edited by RchW; 01-14-2015 at 05:44 PM.
RchW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2015, 05:44 PM   #6
RchW
Hall Of Famer
 
RchW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The big smoke
Posts: 15,628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westheim View Post
That sounds convincing but doesn't explain why the run was given as earned instantly after it scored.
Because OOTP does not have the capability to reconstruct innings. There are plays in game that will be earned or unearned that can't be changed.
__________________
Cheers

RichW

#stopthestupid

“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit
RchW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2015, 05:52 PM   #7
Westheim
Hall Of Famer
 
Westheim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 11,803
While this may be the real explanation for the specific scenario ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Izz View Post
Single into rightfield would probably have scored him anyway if he'd still been at 2nd (BB, wild pitch, single)?
... this would describe a slight problem the game has:

Quote:
Originally Posted by RchW View Post
Because OOTP does not have the capability to reconstruct innings. There are plays in game that will be earned or unearned that can't be changed.
Well, we can always hope for 16, right?
(Yes I know I'm playing 12. Yes, I have 15. No, I have never even installed it.)

Thx guys.
__________________
Portland Raccoons, 83 years of excell-.... of baseball: Furballs here!
1983 * 1989 * 1991 * 1992 * 1993 * 1995 * 1996 * 2010 * 2017 * 2018 * 2019 * 2026 * 2028 * 2035 * 2037 * 2044 * 2045 * 2046 * 2047 * 2048 * 2051 * 2054 * 2055
1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA | RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO

Resident Mets Cynic - The Mets from 1962 onwards, here.
Westheim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2015, 05:58 PM   #8
SteveP
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,109
Quote:
Originally Posted by RchW View Post
Because OOTP does not have the capability to reconstruct innings.
I have certainly made this point many times in the past ... however, I think this may not be entirely true now. I believe that Markus added (or improved, if he wishes I would say ) a routine that will correct ERs at the end of an inning. And I believe I have seen this in action. It would be great if someone were able to confirm this.

Your point that some ERs still aren't corrected, even so, is almost certainly correct.
SteveP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2015, 06:04 PM   #9
joefromchicago
Hall Of Famer
 
joefromchicago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,630
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westheim View Post
That sounds convincing but doesn't explain why the run was given as earned instantly after it scored.
When there's only a single base-runner affected by the error, and that base-runner scores, you really don't have to reconstruct the entire inning in order to determine if the run is earned or unearned. In your example, the scorer could determine immediately if the run was earned because as soon as the runner crossed home plate, the effect of the error could be calculated as to him (it might still have affected subsequent runners as a "fourth out," but it didn't turn out that way in this instance).
joefromchicago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2015, 06:06 PM   #10
Izz
Hall Of Famer
 
Izz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,466
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveP View Post
And I believe I have seen this in action. It would be great if someone were able to confirm this.
I've seen it too, though i have no screenshots or specific remembered examples to confirm.
__________________
Not only do I play OOTP but I also write science-fiction: My Website

A brief history of the Australia-New Zealand Baseball League (AUNZBL 2019-2119)--A Dynasty Report
The National Penterham Four-Bases Association--A Dynasty Report

Last edited by Izz; 01-14-2015 at 06:24 PM.
Izz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2015, 06:44 PM   #11
RchW
Hall Of Famer
 
RchW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The big smoke
Posts: 15,628
Quote:
Originally Posted by joefromchicago View Post
When there's only a single base-runner affected by the error, and that base-runner scores, you really don't have to reconstruct the entire inning in order to determine if the run is earned or unearned. In your example, the scorer could determine immediately if the run was earned because as soon as the runner crossed home plate, the effect of the error could be calculated as to him (it might still have affected subsequent runners as a "fourth out," but it didn't turn out that way in this instance).
Your point is well made but there are numerous cases where reconstruction would change the determination.
__________________
Cheers

RichW

#stopthestupid

“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit
RchW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2015, 07:50 PM   #12
Cryomaniac
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Hucknall, Notts, UK
Posts: 4,902
Quote:
Originally Posted by RchW View Post
Your point is well made but there are numerous cases where reconstruction would change the determination.
IIRC quite a few of the really obvious ones were fixed, but there are certainly still some that aren't correct.
__________________

Cryomaniac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2015, 09:45 PM   #13
RchW
Hall Of Famer
 
RchW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The big smoke
Posts: 15,628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryomaniac View Post
IIRC quite a few of the really obvious ones were fixed, but there are certainly still some that aren't correct.
Are you saying that OOTP reconstructs innings? I'm not sure how that is possible.
__________________
Cheers

RichW

#stopthestupid

“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit
RchW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2015, 01:26 AM   #14
SteveP
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,109
Quote:
Originally Posted by RchW View Post
Are you saying that OOTP reconstructs innings?
I believe I am the one who said that.

The game scores runs as earned or unearned the moment the runner crosses the plate. It has always been that way. In the past, the game did not correct (or at least often failed to correct) a run that was initially scored as unearned, but which in fact was earned. Classic example would be a home run that wiped out the effect of a previous error. I believe the game is making those corrections routinely now, apparently by reviewing the log for that inning in some fashion.

The game may still be getting very unusual situations wrong from time to time. However, it has been awhile since I've run into one of those, so it's basically dropped off my radar at this point.
SteveP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2015, 01:49 PM   #15
rpriske
Hall Of Famer
 
rpriske's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Spencerville, ON, Canada
Posts: 23,897
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveP View Post
The game scores runs as earned or unearned the moment the runner crosses the plate. It has always been that way.
That is not what happens now.

Think of a simpler version. Man on third. Less than two out. Batter is safe on error on an infield hit. Runner scores.

This will NOT show up as an earned run immediately.

If the next player gets a hit, a run will then appear as earned ont he pitcher's record.

OOTP DOES change the status of a run from unearned to earned if the circumstances change during the inning... as it should.

(Note: I am not claiming it always does this perfectly. Just that it does it.)
__________________
Rusty Priske
Poet, Canadian, Baseball Fan

````````````````````````````````````````

rpriske is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2015, 01:59 PM   #16
BIG17EASY
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,291
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpriske View Post
That is not what happens now.

Think of a simpler version. Man on third. Less than two out. Batter is safe on error on an infield hit. Runner scores.

This will NOT show up as an earned run immediately.

If the next player gets a hit, a run will then appear as earned ont he pitcher's record.

OOTP DOES change the status of a run from unearned to earned if the circumstances change during the inning... as it should.

(Note: I am not claiming it always does this perfectly. Just that it does it.)
OOTP will never ever be able to score earned runs perfectly. The reason being is that there are instances where certain factors just cannot be weighed properly by OOTP.

For instance, in the example you list above, if the runner on third breaks on contact, it's an earned run no matter what because the runner scores even if the infielder makes the play. As far as I'm aware, OOTP does not code whether or not that runner goes on contact.
BIG17EASY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2015, 02:22 PM   #17
TomVeal
All Star Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Spanaway, Washington
Posts: 1,181
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIG17EASY View Post
OOTP will never ever be able to score earned runs perfectly. The reason being is that there are instances where certain factors just cannot be weighed properly by OOTP.

For instance, in the example you list above, if the runner on third breaks on contact, it's an earned run no matter what because the runner scores even if the infielder makes the play. As far as I'm aware, OOTP does not code whether or not that runner goes on contact.
I suppose that OOTP could, behind the scenes, rerun the play without the error, see whether the runner would have scored and charge an earned run accordingly. But is that the highest and best use of the scarce resource of programming effort? There are enough arbitrary ER calls in real life that one can tolerate them in a game.
TomVeal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2015, 02:23 PM   #18
BIG17EASY
Hall Of Famer
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,291
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomVeal View Post
I suppose that OOTP could, behind the scenes, rerun the play without the error, see whether the runner would have scored and charge an earned run accordingly. But is that the highest and best use of the scarce resource of programming effort? There are enough arbitrary ER calls in real life that one can tolerate them in a game.
I agree completely. I was just using that as an example of how we'll never have a perfect scoring system in OOTP.
BIG17EASY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2015, 03:04 PM   #19
SteveP
Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 3,109
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpriske View Post
That is not what happens now.

Think of a simpler version. Man on third. Less than two out. Batter is safe on error on an infield hit. Runner scores.

This will NOT show up as an earned run immediately.
Every time that I've bothered to check the box score at the moment a runner scores, it seems to me the game has recorded it against the pitcher in one way or the other. However, it has been some time since I checked this, so I can't say for sure. I'll have to take a look at this again next time.
SteveP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2015, 04:06 PM   #20
rpriske
Hall Of Famer
 
rpriske's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Spencerville, ON, Canada
Posts: 23,897
Blog Entries: 1
It definitely can change during the inning now.

Though, as said, that doesn't mean it is always right.
__________________
Rusty Priske
Poet, Canadian, Baseball Fan

````````````````````````````````````````

rpriske is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:54 AM.

 

Major League and Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of Major League Baseball. Visit MLB.com and MiLB.com.

Officially Licensed Product – MLB Players, Inc.

Out of the Park Baseball is a registered trademark of Out of the Park Developments GmbH & Co. KG

Google Play is a trademark of Google Inc.

Apple, iPhone, iPod touch and iPad are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.

COPYRIGHT © 2023 OUT OF THE PARK DEVELOPMENTS. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © 2020 Out of the Park Developments