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Old 04-16-2018, 05:16 PM   #1
Cowboys3356
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Pitch Velocity

I realize it is more of a cosmetic thing than something that has a huge impact on game results but playing historical leagues where 90% of the pitchers have a pitch velocity of 87-89 mph is annoying (I play mostly 1980s-2010 so not sure if it isolated to that time period or not).

I know that there is probably nothing to import from the database that include pitch velocity but maybe it could be decided based on strikeout totals or something. Basically anything that would allow it to be more random or have the ability to turn it off.

Small thing but just something that drives me a little crazy!
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Old 04-19-2018, 04:11 PM   #2
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Anyone have information on Pitch velocity's impact on game results that they can share? Does it actually matter?
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Old 04-19-2018, 04:26 PM   #3
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What’s your ideal aim here? What does it look like in the illustration you provided?
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Old 04-20-2018, 12:10 PM   #4
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What’s your ideal aim here? What does it look like in the illustration you provided?
Ideally pitchers would import with their real life pitch velocity. However I believe that may be impossible as I am not aware of such information being saved in way that it could be imported.

So my second best scenario would be for pitch velocity to be more randomized and not have 90% of the pitchers with a velocity of 87-89. Perhaps velocity could be based on career K/9 or something of that nature. I know all strikeout guys are not all high velocity pitchers but a large % of them are and it would at least give us a basis for the rating.

Lastly if velocity rating plays no impact then it would be a nice for a developer to say so which would then make the other points mute.
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Old 04-20-2018, 12:19 PM   #5
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Well, if I may pop in here with a comment (too late to say "No!" - I gave you a chance, didn't I? ), here is what the online manual says about velocity. By the way, I am pleased in that the manual appears to be updated on a timely basis these past few game versions. I also include the adjacent section on arm slot which corroborates what I read elsewhere.
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Old 04-20-2018, 01:03 PM   #6
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Yeah, velocity is already factored into stuff rating. So increasing the velocity of a player without decreasing the ratings of the individual pitches will result in a higher Stuff rating.
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Old 04-20-2018, 01:08 PM   #7
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Yea, my guess is the low velocity ratings in certain era's in historical play is because of low strikeout rates during those periods.
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Old 04-21-2018, 08:12 AM   #8
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I have always thought that whatever pitches the pitcher have doesn't heavily effect the outcome of the hit.
I do hope I am wrong but seeing many pitchers without even any type of fastball popping up in historical plays really annoy me. Basically (ex knucklers) the fastball is in every reportoire of a pitcher (I think).

I think types of pitches are in the DB and imported with the player, however if they have no pitch selection they just given a random based on starter or reliever.

Playing mostly in historical mode not only the weird setup of velocity but also the combo of pitches sometimes is crazy.
Then of course as said it perhaps doesn't have any impact on the outcome of a hit or swing and miss.
I had hoped that pitcher listed as groundball pitchers should more have the sinker as their fastball variant if no pitches are present in the DB.

It's hard to factor in this more real and important stuff between pitcher and batter, but I hope the team is working on it

Pitching and all the aspect of it are the core of baseball. Like certain types of pitches more heavily enduce certain type of outcome is the heart of baseball IMHO.

As mentioned it's nicer to see +100mph pitcher listed as such, instead of having lower velocity and the stuff higher to compensate that.

A bit frustrating to see The Big Unit Randy Johnson getting fastballs max of 93-94 in game and having his velocity set to 93-94.

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Old 04-21-2018, 09:25 AM   #9
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I'm almost positive that with the exception of knuckleball pitchers every pitcher created by the game throws a 2-seamer, 4-seamer, or cutter. Do you have counter-examples?
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Old 04-21-2018, 09:38 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Déjà Bru View Post
Well, if I may pop in here with a comment (too late to say "No!" - I gave you a chance, didn't I? ), here is what the online manual says about velocity. By the way, I am pleased in that the manual appears to be updated on a timely basis these past few game versions. I also include the adjacent section on arm slot which corroborates what I read elsewhere.
So if velocity is correlated to the Stuff rating, does that also affect secondary pitches as well? For example, in real life Stephen Strasburg has a mid-90s fastball, mid- to high-80s changeup, and a low-80s curveball. However in OOTP's standard 2018 game, while he still has a mid-90s fastball, I've found that his secondary pitches end up in the 70s range (plus a slider in the 80s that Stras doesn't seem to throw much anymore). So if there was a way to increase the velocity of his secondary pitches, doing so would lead to an increased Stuff rating?

And as a follow-up, is there a way to increase/decrease the velocity of individual pitches? It's purely cosmetic for me - in my head OOTP Strasburg (and many other power pitchers) have these power fastballs and then big, looping, Rich Hill-like curveballs.
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Old 04-22-2018, 03:43 PM   #11
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I'm almost positive that with the exception of knuckleball pitchers every pitcher created by the game throws a 2-seamer, 4-seamer, or cutter. Do you have counter-examples?
First I am playing historical so no fictional pitchers. Loads of them comes in with no kind of fastball.
Lets take some of the more known (MLB-players). I am in 1996 for now.
Mike Oquist curve-slider-change
Jeff McCurry slider - splitter
Shawn Burton slider- splitter
Jerry DiPoto Cutter-curve-slider-splitter (and he is listed in some books slider-sinker-fastball, that's why a cutter looks odd)
These are only some that I know played in the Majors, but the rest might not have any pitch selection in the DB.

However if not any mentioning in the DB I think a normal Fastball should be 100% certain. Wouldn't you ?
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Old 04-22-2018, 08:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
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I'm almost positive that with the exception of knuckleball pitchers every pitcher created by the game throws a 2-seamer, 4-seamer, or cutter. Do you have counter-examples?
i had a 3-pitch guy with no fastball whatsoever... CB was primary. no KB

but, i must admit if a pitch is very low-rated, i lop it off. if i did, it was sub 25/100 type ability and wouldn't be thrown much anyway..

he was okay starting, but way better in releif.. 60g 100ip and a 3-4war out of the pen type amazingness. i only gave him 30-40GS... so he may have panned out better than what i saw. i have high standards, but the guy was an ace on at last half the teams rotations, even so.
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Old 04-22-2018, 08:49 PM   #13
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changing velocity is liek a rising tide.. it will affect all pitches... maybe not equally, of course... i have never dived that far into the rabbit hole on it.

simply turn on comissioner mode, go into player editor and change velo... you must return to player profile screen to see new stuff rating. (use 100% accuracy when testing this out).

in the editor you will see the 'raw' stuff ratings... the do not match profile stuff ratings...

the profile stuff ratings is what hte game uses to determine outcomes (relative to stuff... other things are a part of this equation, of course, like control, the batter etc).. stuff, velo and ?movement? there's a note in the editor right below velocity setting that tells you what is added together for the 'used' stuff rating..

a random seed is rolld (RNG) when the batter first comes up to the plate... if it exceeds the threshold required for a hit relative to the pitcher's ratings and such, it is going to be a well-struck ball (foul?, to a fielder? a gap? a hr? ignore that stuff for now -- maybe related to initial "roll" maybe a new one etc etc like layers in an onion)... if it is below the threshold, the ab is almost assuredly an out -- errors and oddities are a seperate "roll" of the dice.

imo, the seed should be renewed/re-rolled each pitch.. but i'm 99% certain it doesn't as of ootp18. you can absolutely have a guaranteed bad outcome the moment you come to bat in ootp. crashing and reloading a saved game will show that the seed is maintained. i've seen 100 straight outs or errors before, lol. well-struck balls (probably relates to high good of a roll you had) eventualyl can be a HR if you repeat that same process.

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Old 04-24-2018, 09:04 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clamel View Post
First I am playing historical so no fictional pitchers. Loads of them comes in with no kind of fastball.
Lets take some of the more known (MLB-players). I am in 1996 for now.
Mike Oquist curve-slider-change
Jeff McCurry slider - splitter
Shawn Burton slider- splitter
Jerry DiPoto Cutter-curve-slider-splitter (and he is listed in some books slider-sinker-fastball, that's why a cutter looks odd)
These are only some that I know played in the Majors, but the rest might not have any pitch selection in the DB.

However if not any mentioning in the DB I think a normal Fastball should be 100% certain. Wouldn't you ?
The split finger fastball is in fact a fastball. Mike Oquist is noted (and knuckleballers should have a show me fastball, frankly).
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Old 04-24-2018, 10:05 AM   #15
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I think a splitter surely debated being a sort of fastball.
In name yes, but else.
Read a lot that this is not any kind of fastball as "normal".

Then I could be wrong, but lots of articles and better known folks don't think this can compare with cutters as a variant to 2-seam and 4-seamers.
Perhaps the forkball should be closer to the splitter (Roger Craig might disagree) than a "standard" fastball.
Some "experts" say the forkball was a precursor to the splitter. I always regarded the splitter as a bit faster type of change-up even.

Hm what about Mike Oquist ? Noted?
I pulled out my copy of Neyer/james Pitcher book and Oquist is listed 1-slider, 2-change, 3-curve, 4-fastball (mid-80).
That info came from The Scouting Report: 1987.

I agree knuckler should even perhaps have a poor fastball, but I understand that the amount of pitches is the most valuable in this game. What types really is only cosmetic, which is a bit sad.

The great fun of pitching.... "What the heck did he throw ???"

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Old 04-24-2018, 01:33 PM   #16
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i have a changeup/KB sp and he's averaging ~10.9 k/9 ( an upper-end clip in my leagues) with 84-86mph velo, lol.

most kb'ers i have don't have so many K/9.

about Cowboys3356's original quesiton..

velo is rolled up into the stuff ratings you see in the player profile. the note in player editor about stuff (commisioner mode necessary, probably) explains it.

velo, 'pure' ratings (as editor says) and gb% etc are rolled up together to come up withth relavent "stuff" ratings that will be used for each pitch in the game and what you see on player profile screen (100% accuacy assumed).

so, after that point velo isn't considered on it's own.. i.e. a FB stuff you see in profile is including it already as far as how it influences the game..

so any FB (any individual pitch ratings, not overall stuff) with same stuff value in profile, regardless of velo of those 2 players is equal in probability of results. again, 100% accuracy required and not stats influence if it even does. -- all other relevant factors reamining equal/the same. editor and manual confirm how this works, so not a guess.

that's not the only factor though.. beyond stuff you have movement and control, of course and whatever else??, which is not incorporated into the stuff ratings you see in profile.

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Old 04-24-2018, 03:40 PM   #17
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Thanks for the feedback everyone!
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Old 04-24-2018, 07:07 PM   #18
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I came back in to post that I realized that the show me fastball that knuckleballers throw is basically a straight change. Tim Wakefield's "fastball" topped out in the mid to high 70s. Wakefield is an extreme case because unlike a lot of guys who tried other pitches before landing on the knuckler, Wakefield self converted from second base, but even so, I highly doubt that 78mph was the hardest he could throw. What actually happened was that for him and other knuckleball pitchers that "fastball" is less about overpowering a hitter and more about sneaking a ball in over the plate on a bad count. As such, it has to look like it could be a knuckler coming out of the delivery, and that in and of itself is going to slow it down some. Also, if the speed difference is too high then batters will pick up on *that* and it'll be nothing more than a batting practice meatball.

The velocity in game, FWIW, is already the often hypothetical 4 seamer speed. A sinker, cutter, or splitter is going to be a couple mph slower, a slider a few miles slower than that, and so on.

Otherwise, the splitter is thrown differently than the 2 seam fastball and it behaves a bit differently as well (it also behaves differently than the forkball and I'm about positive that it actually has more in common with the sinker than the splitter in terms of grip). The splitter is thrown hard like a regular fastball and there was a period of time in the 70s and 80s when a lot of pitchers threw it as their "speed" pitch. I'm pretty sure that describes Bruce Sutter, for example.
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