Reworking stats for deadball era players needed

[Syd Thrift]

So, here's the problem. For other eras, say 1930 or so to the present day, the game does a good job of creating the right number of doubles, triples, and homeruns. No complaints there. However, before that point, the game's system, in which gap power is used to determine only doubles and triples and "regular" power for HRs, just doesn't work.

IRL some doubles, especially ones from the dead ball era, are singles stretched by speed. To push this further, many if not most triples are doubles stretched into triples by speed. We're good so far. In the dead ball era, most home runs are triples stretched into inside-the-park jobs by speed. *That* is where the system is failing right now: you get a lot of speedy guys who apparently get to 3rd and stop, and so you wind up with weirdo 25 double, 38 triple seasons by regular starters who are very fast.

What I think the game needs to do is generate a lot more inside the park homeruns than it currently does. This wouldn't exactly be an issue with the stats being "off" because the game engine does a good job of running simulations with the players and then adjusting the stats so that they match up well. What it *will* do is make the power tool all but useless before the 20s. But that's actually a positive consequence, not a negative one, because before Babe Ruth very few players actually tried to swing for the fences.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

So, here's the problem. For other eras, say 1930 or so to the present day, the game does a good job of creating the right number of doubles, triples, and homeruns. No complaints there. However, before that point, the game's system, in which gap power is used to determine only doubles and triples and "regular" power for HRs, just doesn't work.

IRL some doubles, especially ones from the dead ball era, are singles stretched by speed. To push this further, many if not most triples are doubles stretched into triples by speed. We're good so far. In the dead ball era, most home runs are triples stretched into inside-the-park jobs by speed. *That* is where the system is failing right now: you get a lot of speedy guys who apparently get to 3rd and stop, and so you wind up with weirdo 25 double, 38 triple seasons by regular starters who are very fast.

What I think the game needs to do is generate a lot more inside the park homeruns than it currently does. This wouldn't exactly be an issue with the stats being "off" because the game engine does a good job of running simulations with the players and then adjusting the stats so that they match up well. What it *will* do is make the power tool all but useless before the 20s. But that's actually a positive consequence, not a negative one, because before Babe Ruth very few players actually tried to swing for the fences.

I know this is a huge problem when attempting to do a fictional league during the deadball period. I've had guys hit 40+ triples for a season followed by several in the high 30's. Really hope this is something that can be fixed.

[Questdog]

It is not the number of triples that is the problem, it is the fact that some fast players can hit 25 triples while having only 7 doubles.

This has been an issue since time immemorial....

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Questdog

It is not the number of triples that is the problem, it is the fact that some fast players can hit 25 triples while having only 7 doubles.

This has been an issue since time immemorial....

Right. See my post for why this is and how it can be countermanded.

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Right. See my post for why this is and how it can be countermanded.

I guess I don't see where the solution is.

If a player has 7 doubles and 25 triples, how is making more inside-the-park home runs going to make his line more realistic? What needs to be done is that fewer doubles need to be turned into triples based on speed.

Currently in MLB, most triples are made by speedy players and the system does a pretty good job at simulating modern hitters. But in the dead ball days, triples were hit by sluggers. And most everyone could run or else they did not make it to the majors.

I have mitigated this in my own games by assigning triple ratings to every player based on a formula I have devised that works fairly well.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Questdog

I guess I don't see where the solution is.

If a player has 7 doubles and 25 triples, how is making more inside-the-park home runs going to make his line more realistic

oh, right. The other half of that is that players should be stretching more singles into doubles during this time. The guy with 7 doubles and 25 triples might turn 8 of those triples into inside the park jobs and then turn, say, 15 singles into doubles. 22-18-8 is in line with stats from that period.