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Old 02-11-2015, 06:21 PM   #1
jpeters1734
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An Idiot's Guide for Defensive Stats, please??

Would someone be so kind as to post an idiots guide for defensive stats? It would be very helpful if there was a description of the stat along with levels for each position.

For example, what would be a good rating for EFF for a 2B? What would be elite? What is it?

Many thanks to anyone that would take this on. Defensive stats are my kryptonite.
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Old 02-14-2015, 03:45 AM   #2
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a friendly bump
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Old 02-14-2015, 10:44 PM   #3
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Old 02-14-2015, 11:54 PM   #4
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Some of my notes for what they're worth. All of this was picked up on this board from what other guys wrote. Hope it helps.

Defensive Efficiency. This is the rate at which balls put into play are converted into outs by a team’s defense.


DE > .700 is good.
DE > .720 is great.
DE < 700 is poor.

Fielding % is the % of times a defensive player properly handles a batted or thrown ball.

Gold Glove Fielding%
C …….. 0.990
1B ….. 0.995
2B ….. 0.985
SS …… 0.975
3B ….. 0.970
OF ….. 0.995

Individual Defensive Efficiency (EFF). OOTP uses this metric as a measurement of the plays made by a fielder in his zone compared with the league average for the position.

1.050 and above – A. Gold Glove-caliber defense at the position
1.025 to 1.010 – B. Above average defense
1.010 to .990 – C. Average
.990 to .950 – D. Below average
.950 and below – F. Atrocious



Range Factor (RF). This measures the number of outs a player is involved in (assists and put outs) per 9 innings played. This gives you an idea of how often a player is involved in a defensive play for an out. You want to put good defenders in positions where they can make plays.
Watch out for players with a high range factor and low defensive efficiency; they can really hurt your team.

Zone Rating (ZR) = A player gets credit (a "plus" number) if he makes a play that at least one other player at his position missed during the season, and he loses credit (a "minus" number) if he misses a play that at least one player made. The size of the credit is directly related to how often players make the play. Each play is looked at individually, and a score is given for each play. Sum up all the plays for each player at his position and you get his total plus/minus for the season.

A total plus/minus score near 0.00 means the player is average. A score > 0 is above average and a score < 0 is below average. It's actually runs saved above an average player at the position in question.
A Zone Rating of 2.05 means the fielder has saved 2.05 runs over a replacement level fielder. A ZF of -2.05 means the fielder has cost his team 2 runs.


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Old 02-15-2015, 08:16 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkcloud4579 View Post
Thanks but that is for team EFF

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tashtego View Post
Some of my notes for what they're worth. All of this was picked up on this board from what other guys wrote. Hope it helps.

Defensive Efficiency. This is the rate at which balls put into play are converted into outs by a team’s defense.


DE > .700 is good.
DE > .720 is great.
DE < 700 is poor.

Fielding % is the % of times a defensive player properly handles a batted or thrown ball.

Gold Glove Fielding%
C …….. 0.990
1B ….. 0.995
2B ….. 0.985
SS …… 0.975
3B ….. 0.970
OF ….. 0.995

Individual Defensive Efficiency (EFF). OOTP uses this metric as a measurement of the plays made by a fielder in his zone compared with the league average for the position.

1.050 and above – A. Gold Glove-caliber defense at the position
1.025 to 1.010 – B. Above average defense
1.010 to .990 – C. Average
.990 to .950 – D. Below average
.950 and below – F. Atrocious



Range Factor (RF). This measures the number of outs a player is involved in (assists and put outs) per 9 innings played. This gives you an idea of how often a player is involved in a defensive play for an out. You want to put good defenders in positions where they can make plays.
Watch out for players with a high range factor and low defensive efficiency; they can really hurt your team.

Zone Rating (ZR) = A player gets credit (a "plus" number) if he makes a play that at least one other player at his position missed during the season, and he loses credit (a "minus" number) if he misses a play that at least one player made. The size of the credit is directly related to how often players make the play. Each play is looked at individually, and a score is given for each play. Sum up all the plays for each player at his position and you get his total plus/minus for the season.

A total plus/minus score near 0.00 means the player is average. A score > 0 is above average and a score < 0 is below average. It's actually runs saved above an average player at the position in question.
A Zone Rating of 2.05 means the fielder has saved 2.05 runs over a replacement level fielder. A ZF of -2.05 means the fielder has cost his team 2 runs.


Thanks. For the EFF, would those grades be the same at all the positions? Also, why would a player with a high range factor but low eff be especially hurtful to your team?
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Old 02-15-2015, 08:30 AM   #6
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I'm just taking a guess assuming that I read and understand the explanation, that a player with high RF would be someone like your SS or CF who is involved in a higher proportion of the defensive plays. If they have poor EFF they will successfully convert less of those plays. So you ideally want a player with high EFF (fewer errors) to have the highest chance to be involved in a defensive play (RF).


Correct me if I'm wrong...just trying to get involved in the forum
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Old 02-15-2015, 01:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Buck View Post
I'm just taking a guess assuming that I read and understand the explanation, that a player with high RF would be someone like your SS or CF who is involved in a higher proportion of the defensive plays. If they have poor EFF they will successfully convert less of those plays. So you ideally want a player with high EFF (fewer errors) to have the highest chance to be involved in a defensive play (RF).


Correct me if I'm wrong...just trying to get involved in the forum
This is correct. A high RF means the player is getting involved in more plays. A low EFF means he's screwing up more plays. Bad combination.

As for the other question, yes, the EFF grades would be the same for all positions, since the number is calculated based on a league average player at each specific position.
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Old 02-16-2015, 10:06 AM   #8
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so what would a high range factor be? and is is different for each position?
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Old 02-16-2015, 04:20 PM   #9
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Wait, wait, wait.

Traditional baseball statistics are simple. The result of a ball in play is either a base hit, out or an error. However, we should care what the end result is, not what the scorer writes down. Runner out or on base?

By that standard, if a fielder with great range gets to three difficult balls and flubs one of it, he's a bad defender, Fielding percentage of .667, that is bad!

Now another guy, lets call him Jerek Deter (any similarities to existing players entirely coincidential), gets to only one of those balls. As those were difficult balls, the 2 others go down as base hits. This player however doesn't make errors. Fielding percentage of 1.00, where is his gold glove?

However, the first player gets two outs and one runner at first, the second 1 out and 2 runners at first. Who would you rather have in your team?

Statements like "if a player gets to many balls but makes some errors in the process, be vary of him" are nonsense. Those are the good guys, the ones that make more difficult plays and therefore have more errors.

Of course, some players simply make more errors than others. But you'd have to make big lots of errors to have a great range and be a bad defender. Average maybe, but not bad.

Because people failed to understand the difference, Jeter got Gold Gloves while actually being one of the worst defenders in the league.* If you want to know more:
Mercer County Library Blog: ?Pasta Diving? and Baseball by the Numbers

* Worst defender for a shortstop, which means probably still a pretty good defender at third or somewhere else. And a great bat of course, makes him overall a good SS. But nontheless a bad defender.

Last edited by Number4; 02-16-2015 at 04:22 PM.
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Old 02-16-2015, 06:25 PM   #10
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You know, I think we're looking at this wrong, and I feel a little stupid now. Range Factor doesn't record the number of CHANCES a guy has, but rather the number of OUTS he's involved in. So a high Range Factor seems to me like it would always be a good thing - a guy with 2 errors in 10 chances and another with 0 errors in 8 chances would both end up with a Range Factor of 8. Not really the best thing to judge people on.

Either way, it really only comes into play when a guy can play multiple positions - someone with a low EFF who can play SS and 3B should likely be put at 3B, and someone with a higher EFF should be plugged in at SS. (By the by, on that note, I would argue that Jeter shouldn't have remained at SS his whole career - probably would have made a better 3B)

Quote:
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so what would a high range factor be? and is is different for each position?
Yes, it varies by position, because a RF probably isn't going to be making as many outs per game as a SS is. Your 1B should likely have the highest Range Factor on the team, which seems odd until you realize how many outs are made at first. Next would be your catchers, who get credit for strikeouts, and the middle infielders. Then outfielders, and finally 3B will probably have the lowest.

As for what's a high RF... honestly, it doesn't seem to be the most useful stat for evaluating based on pure numbers. Really only should be looked at if you're deciding between two players. But remember that there's only 27 outs in a game, so you can always look at it that way.

Last edited by Fyrestorm3; 02-16-2015 at 06:27 PM.
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Old 02-16-2015, 07:06 PM   #11
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Forgive me but I'm still no better at evaluating defensive stats by position lol
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Old 02-20-2015, 10:35 AM   #12
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Forgive me but I'm still no better at evaluating defensive stats by position lol
Print out the excellent synopsis Tashtego just gave you, and you're done. For purposes of the game, all you need are efficiency and (less important) fielding percentage.

You've been given excellent information here. Not sure what you're missing.
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Old 02-20-2015, 04:41 PM   #13
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Print out the excellent synopsis Tashtego just gave you, and you're done. For purposes of the game, all you need are efficiency and (less important) fielding percentage.

You've been given excellent information here. Not sure what you're missing.
It was a tongue-in-check comment referring the the debate after Tashtego's post.
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