Does luck ever turn around?

[Findest2001]

I'm 2nd in my division and first in WC standings leading the runner up by 6 games. I am EDIT 18 games behind the #1 team and I'm 2nd. IN IRON. This will be my sixth season in Iron and every season this crap happens. I've upgraded my team so much, and it doesn't matter because there's always a team like this holding me down even though clearly my team is better than all the competition (except the one obligatory team with 4 perfects and all golds and diamonds [mostly diamonds]) at this level as I'm almost always first or second in my division, but then I come up against a juggernaut who should have started in silver or gold at least.

We're at exactly the 100 game mark and the first place team has 76 wins already.

I'm sorry to whine, but my thought process always used to be "meh, it's only one season. I'll get re-seeded and next year the competition will be more even." Then I get re-seeded into another league just like the last.

I'm so close to giving up. This isn't my team stinking, or me doing anything wrong. It's "bad luck" keeping me from enjoying the game I love so much.

Does it get better? I'm not waiting until I have several perfects before I make it to bronze. That's a ridiculous requirement. "In order to make bronze you must have a team that can steamroll everyone on their best day with only 5 guys on the field." That's what it feels like, anyways.

I had troubles in OOTP19 PT because I was learning the game and I started very terrible at it. But now, I'm pretty decent, and even made it to diamond with a future legends team (not an easy feat from what I've heard). It's just so frustrating seeing those great numbers from your team and having no shot at making it out of the lowest level in the game. Solid winning percentage, being happy with the team you've created, honestly feeling like you have a shot to finally get promoted after 5 seasons of 2nd and 1st place finishes with a few seasons of being right on the bubble only to be bounced in the first round by juggernaut whales when you do make the playoffs. Again, sorry for the rant. I needed to vent.

Anyways, anyone else have the same issues or care to share your story for how you got around "bad luck"?

[neugey]

I've been shutout six times today alone. It's incredible. 4 times it was against fairly lowly silver starting pitchers. Now I know how Beavis felt

[Goliathus]

Well, I hate to say the same thing on every thread but this is one of the side effects of the current low pro/rel setup. You have got too many teams that are supposed to be above but they are not. It might not be your luck but there's just too many teams of that caliber still sitting in iron for...whatever reason.

But anyway, chill. It happens. I am very zen on this because I have been through this sort of situations way too much already throughout all the years of gaming. If you get paired with a juggernaut, you get paired with a juggernaut. You are not doing anything wrong, but it's also proof that you are not the best team in the whole iron pool and said juggernaut is theoretically more deserving to be promoted than you. No one is doing anything wrong, it's just how it is.

Also, what if you finally became the juggernaut but you lose in the best of 8 in the playoff to a theoretically weaker team. Are you going to blame luck too? When you play a game that involves luck and variance, you just have to accept that luck will always play a factor and has nothing to do with you doing anything wrong. In poker, you could be playing like Phil Ivey, made no mistake the whole day and then got beat by a wonder draw when you all-in on your opponent's garbage hand. You can do everything you could but still not win.

I used to be as frustrated as you when I was playing card games. There are always some opponents who I can see are playing horrible or are just massive a-holes and you want to beat them, you are confident you can beat them -- but you draw duds and they topdeck every card they ever need and they win. It took me a couple years and probably hundreds - and maybe a thousand occurrence - to really grow out of that phase. Now I just laugh when I get horrible draws in a row and see how many matches can I extend that bad streak for fun. I think the faster you can genuinely accept "this will happen", the faster you can get over it. Or don't grow out of it, and use that to fuel yourself, I think everyone has their own method of dealing with this. Hopefully your method is not "quitting".

[Findest2001]

Originally Posted by Goliathus

Well, I hate to say the same thing on every thread but this is one of the side effects of the current low pro/rel setup. You have got too many teams that are supposed to be above but they are not. It might not be your luck but there's just too many teams of that caliber still sitting in iron for...whatever reason.

But anyway, chill. It happens. I am very zen on this because I have been through this sort of situations way too much already throughout all the years of gaming. If you get paired with a juggernaut, you get paired with a juggernaut. You are not doing anything wrong, but it's also proof that you are not the best team in the whole iron pool and said juggernaut is theoretically more deserving to be promoted than you. No one is doing anything wrong, it's just how it is.

Also, what if you finally became the juggernaut but you lose in the best of 8 in the playoff to a theoretically weaker team. Are you going to blame luck too? When you play a game that involves luck and variance, you just have to accept that luck will always play a factor and has nothing to do with you doing anything wrong. In poker, you could be playing like Phil Ivey, made no mistake the whole day and then got beat by a wonder draw when you all-in on your opponent's garbage hand. You can do everything you could but still not win.

I used to be as frustrated as you when I was playing card games. There are always some opponents who I can see are playing horrible or are just massive a-holes and you want to beat them, you are confident you can beat them -- but you draw duds and they topdeck every card they ever need and they win. It took me a couple years and probably hundreds - and maybe a thousand occurrence - to really grow out of that phase. Now I just laugh when I get horrible draws in a row and see how many matches can I extend that bad streak for fun. I think the faster you can genuinely accept "this will happen", the faster you can get over it. Or don't grow out of it, and use that to fuel yourself, I think everyone has their own method of dealing with this. Hopefully your method is not "quitting".

I used your philosophy the first four seasons of it. I shrugged and said, "meh, next season I'll move on", and it doesn't happen. The individual seasons of it I can shrug off within that respective season because I know it happens once in a while, but 5 seasons in a row? This season will make six...


The dude is 18 games ahead of me and I have a 6-game lead in the WC standings. That means he's got a twenty four game lead over the third best team in the entire league!


I'm dumbfounded that this happens...I will probably never have a perfect card, and he's got FOUR...in Iron... I know I'm beating a dead horse but something has got to give here. Six seasons of this **** is ridiculous. But you know, the only way to persevere through it is just keep doing what I'm doing and pray that next season I'll finally get an actual Iron league and not an almost Iron league with 3-4 whales in it who automatically have the crown before the season even starts. I'm busting my ass for hours a day to win every game possible and they just throw a few hundred bucks at the game and roll over people who don't even stand a chance. And even in the other seasons I've spoken of the gap between teams was nowhere near this terrible. Those times I at least felt like "if I manage the best I can and utilize every opportunity I can then maybe, just maybe I can make the playoffs, and then anything can happen. But this league? I'm not even trying. Just logging and checking my balance, working the AH for PP. I'm not changing or doing anything because I know it's lost.



Honestly for the last month or so I thought the whole pro/rel debate was a bit overstated on the boards, but now I see why. I can't even move out of the LOWEST LEVEL IN THE GAME unless I spend money...
*sigh*

[HRBaker]

This conversation exists for a reason.

I currently have a team that has been in Iron for 8 season - 4 of which I has qualified for the playoffs and lost early - thus remaining in Iron. I'm currently 83-23 and leading the second place team by 24 games.

I'm an example of the "whale-in-iron" that can't advance. After 4 tries, I have to believe I'll get out of Iron this year - but what if I don't?

A lot of discussion here on this subject and the BASIC problem is the game is not good at levelizing talent. Too many whales at lower levels that don't get out early enough, and too many mini-whales that climb the ladder too fast and get their shorts cleaned when they hit Perfect (and then get criticized if they try to demote themselves from that situation).

The Devs simply have to find a solution, or ultimately, a lot of us are going to turn to other things. Not everyone loves being frustrated all the time.

[GlassGuyBob]

Originally Posted by HRBaker

This conversation exists for a reason.

I currently have a team that has been in Iron for 8 season - 4 of which I has qualified for the playoffs and lost early - thus remaining in Iron. I'm currently 83-23 and leading the second place team by 24 games.

I'm an example of the "whale-in-iron" that can't advance. After 4 tries, I have to believe I'll get out of Iron this year - but what if I don't?

A lot of discussion here on this subject and the BASIC problem is the game is not good at levelizing talent. Too many whales at lower levels that don't get out early enough, and too many mini-whales that climb the ladder too fast and get their shorts cleaned when they hit Perfect (and then get criticized if they try to demote themselves from that situation).

The Devs simply have to find a solution, or ultimately, a lot of us are going to turn to other things. Not everyone loves being frustrated all the time.

Why in such a rush to move up to where your team will be mediocre? I have atwo FTP teams, one team stuck in Bronze with a similar scenario as you and another that's only slightly better that made it to Diamond. If my Diamond team makes it to Perfect somehow, they're an excellent candidate to lose 120 games.

I'd be happy to win the Bronze championship, but I'm also not in a huge rush for my teams to get to the level where they'll be ROFL stomped.

[LansdowneSt]

It might be of merit if every X weeks, and not on a schedule per se that can be manipulated and timed, they flushed the top tiers so that instead of dropping 2 teams (or whatever the Perfect relegation number usually is), they dropped 8 and promoted 8 to churn it more and give people relief and, on the flip side, opportunity.

[stl jason]

just keep plugging away and don't worry about the title of the league you're in.... if you break through and get promoted to the next level, that's great... if not, so be it... it's still fun... I look at my v19 team as a prime example... they're currently sitting in Silver league... they've won around 450 games in the last 4 seasons, and have been the top team in the league each time.... yet they keep losing to the wild-card team in the LDS and fail to get promoted...


but if you're intent on moving up as soon as possible, maybe start a thread looking for similar non-whale iron league teams to band together in a friends list... if you can get 29 other players, you can block out any juggernauts and have a nice competitive league...

[Findest2001]

Originally Posted by stl jason

just keep plugging away and don't worry about the title of the league you're in.... if you break through and get promoted to the next level, that's great... if not, so be it... it's still fun... I look at my v19 team as a prime example... they're currently sitting in Silver league... they've won around 450 games in the last 4 seasons, and have been the top team in the league each time.... yet they keep losing to the wild-card team in the LDS and fail to get promoted...


but if you're intent on moving up as soon as possible, maybe start a thread looking for similar non-whale iron league teams to band together in a friends list... if you can get 29 other players, you can block out any juggernauts and have a nice competitive league...

I have to admit I started looking into doing this. However, the friend list feature is not exactly user friendly. I went in to see who I could add to my friend list and the only way to search is if you already know the name of the team. You otherwise have to search through every single manager in the PT universe! Yikes. The other league has been recruiting for over a year and barely have enough to fill a league with. IIRC they have like 45 managers, but they're spread across all levels. I'm not waiting a year for a chance to make it out of iron.


I thought sleeping on it last night would help my frustration, but for the first time during this process, I'm still just as frustrated as last night. For several seasons I darn near have a .600 WP% and all I ever see next to my team record is "2nd place". Even after I go on a 8 game winning streak I don't get any closer to the guy in first because he went on a 9 game winning streak. Again, I'll stop beating a dead horse, but I do wish your idea was easier to implement because I would totally do this, but then I might be the whale of that league because I've been collecting PP in Iron for so long my team should be in silver at least.

[stl jason]

Originally Posted by Findest2001

I have to admit I started looking into doing this. However, the friend list feature is not exactly user friendly. I went in to see who I could add to my friend list and the only way to search is if you already know the name of the team. You otherwise have to search through every single manager in the PT universe! Yikes. The other league has been recruiting for over a year and barely have enough to fill a league with. IIRC they have like 45 managers, but they're spread across all levels. I'm not waiting a year for a chance to make it out of iron.


I thought sleeping on it last night would help my frustration, but for the first time during this process, I'm still just as frustrated as last night. For several seasons I darn near have a .600 WP% and all I ever see next to my team record is "2nd place". Even after I go on a 8 game winning streak I don't get any closer to the guy in first because he went on a 9 game winning streak. Again, I'll stop beating a dead horse, but I do wish your idea was easier to implement because I would totally do this, but then I might be the whale of that league because I've been collecting PP in Iron for so long my team should be in silver at least.

I think the issue you'll find with the 'our league' group (which I'm in), is just the fact we restrict teams to historical cards only... not everyone wants to cast off their live/future cards... but if you have it open to any like-minded iron league teams who just want to compete without having a team of 25 perfect cards show up in the mix, you might have an easier time of lining up 29 other teams... worst case, you don't get a full league, but even if that happens and you get say 15; that's 15 fewer slots for a juggernaut to get.... worth a shot

[Findest2001]

Originally Posted by stl jason

I think the issue you'll find with the 'our league' group (which I'm in), is just the fact we restrict teams to historical cards only... not everyone wants to cast off their live/future cards... but if you have it open to any like-minded iron league teams who just want to compete without having a team of 25 perfect cards show up in the mix, you might have an easier time of lining up 29 other teams... worst case, you don't get a full league, but even if that happens and you get say 15; that's 15 fewer slots for a juggernaut to get.... worth a shot

I started a recruiting thread. Got nothing to lose.

[<Pion>]

My frustration comes with how fast my team gets out of iron. The team I acquired some players I was interested in having on my team (so I could watch their stats) is winning 70% of their games, while the team that I didn't upgrade except for a bronze and a silver player is winning 56%.

[Findest2001]

Just for giggles and an update I am now 19 1/2 games behind the #1 team, AND STILL IN SECOND PLACE. Every other division in the entire league doesn't have that much disparity between the first place and LAST PLACE team lol and my division has that much between first and second.
*sigh*
*shrug* I'm not checking this team until Monday. This is beyond ridiculous.

[humboldt1498]

Find like minded people in this forum and start a friends league. Problem solved.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

[CrazyWR]

Win in the playoffs...its enough of a crapshoot anyways.

[<Pion>]

Originally Posted by Findest2001

Just for giggles and an update I am now 19 1/2 games behind the #1 team, AND STILL IN SECOND PLACE. Every other division in the entire league doesn't have that much disparity between the first place and LAST PLACE team lol and my division has that much between first and second.
*sigh*
*shrug* I'm not checking this team until Monday. This is beyond ridiculous.

So we're only talking about one team here that is head and shoulders good above everyone else? Not sure what the big deal is, you got assigned to his division. Oh well. As many 85 win wildcard teams I see put away 115 win teams, you have a punchers chance (and many times I think too good of a chance given how many wildcard teams win).

[Findest2001]

Originally Posted by humboldt1498

Find like minded people in this forum and start a friends league. Problem solved.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

Already doing so. This was mentioned and responded to already.

[Dogberry99]

Originally Posted by <Pion>

So we're only talking about one team here that is head and shoulders good above everyone else? Not sure what the big deal is, you got assigned to his division. Oh well. As many 85 win wildcard teams I see put away 115 win teams, you have a punchers chance (and many times I think too good of a chance given how many wildcard teams win).

This "its only one team" argument could also be easily applied to a team that is head and shoulders below everyone else, such as when a team is tanking.

[CrazyWR]

not really sure how thats relevant whatsoever in this discussion?

[Dogberry99]

Originally Posted by CrazyWR

not really sure how thats relevant whatsoever in this discussion?

My argument is that the "its only one team" argument is not relevant to this discussion. My point was that Pion's argument was also not relevant here.