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Old 01-21-2020, 10:36 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Kris Jardine View Post
Balancing the tiers is a big focus for us heading into 21
This is what takes away from the different levels. It should be harder to advance upward. Keep more teams in Silver and below.
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Old 01-22-2020, 05:09 AM   #22
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A "power ranking" used for promotion, derived from a combination of factors - including PP earned - would definitely level things out. Add decent rewards for winning a series, but have the impact of the playoffs on the power ranking quite low. To the point where a team doesn't necessarily get promoted even if it wins a series!
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Old 01-22-2020, 08:22 AM   #23
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PT19 is only promoting 2 teams to perfect for each league every week; PT20 is still promoting 4.
This means absolute squid. Diamond Leagues could promote ten teams to Perfect and wouldn't matter a thing if only the relegations from Perfect would match that number...
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Old 01-22-2020, 08:53 AM   #24
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We can talk forever about the best way to balance the tiers and there does need to be a level above perfect for the truly elite teams finishing with 120 wins every season (I realize some are self-selecting into a "whale" league already)

None of it matters though if the reward structure continues to provide incentive to avoid promotion.
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Old 01-22-2020, 10:48 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westheim View Post
This means absolute squid. Diamond Leagues could promote ten teams to Perfect and wouldn't matter a thing if only the relegations from Perfect would match that number...
No joke, but they're both demoting 4. My point is the older product is doing it more right than the newer...
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Old 01-22-2020, 12:13 PM   #26
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The problem is not the Rewards structure. Giving more points to the upper levels will simply make the teams on top even stronger than they already are in comparison with the rest of the organization. Personally I'm tired of seeing teams in perfect 50 games out of first.

The problem is the lack of adherence to the pyramid structure.

1) The Pyramid MUST be maintained

2) Fewer teams should move up and down at the top of the pyramid than at the bottom

I've attached a table as an example of how it should work. I've laid out the 6 levels assuming 210 teams and 20% of the teams at each level moving up and down. The math is a bit complex but explained below.

Perfect Level,
Relegate 2 teams to Diamond
Gain 2 teams from Diamond Promotion
Net = -2, +2

Diamond Level,
Relegate 4 teams to Gold
Gain 2 teams from Perfect Relegation
Loses 2 teams to Perfect through Promotion
Gain 4 teams from Gold Promotion
Net = -6, +6

Gold Level,
Relegate 6 teams to Silver
Gain 4 teams from Diamond Relegation
Loses 4 teams to Diamond through Promotion
Gain 6 teams from Silver Promotion
Net = -10, +10

Silver Level,
Relegate 8 teams to Bronze
Gain 6 teams from Gold Relegation
Lose 6 teams to Gold through Promotion
Gain 8 teams from Bronze Promotion
Net = -14, +14

Bronze Level,
Relegate 10 teams to Iron
Gain 8 teams from Silver Relegation
Lose 8 teams to Silver through Promotion
Gain 10 teams from Bronze Promotion
Net = -18, +18

Iron Level,
Gain 10 teams from Bronze Relegation
Lose 10 team to Bronze through Promotion
Net = -10, +10

Looking at the table;

Column 1 is the original team count
Column 2 are the teams relegated
Column 3 is where those teams go
Column 4 is the team count per level after relegations

Column 5 are the teams promoted
Column 6 is where those teams go
Column 7 is the final team count per level (the pyramid is retained)

In my opinion, this would help considerably in putting only the best teams at the top.
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Old 01-22-2020, 12:48 PM   #27
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the lack of pyramid and the reward structure are a problem. the optimal way to play should not be to stay at iron as long as possible
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Old 01-22-2020, 02:12 PM   #28
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To me, this is all easily resolved with a criteria of "X" PL Championships required to move up to a final tier.

This leaves it open to F2P teams who have the time and effort to compete against whales, while making the top end competition, highly competitive.

It also gives non-whalers an achievement to strive for and metric to meet to know they'll be able to compete consistently at the top tier once they've reached it.

I'd personally make this final tier, non-demoteable, but include a full reset option. Thus eliminating tanking in the final tier. But you could also do this with relegation. You'd just need a criteria for re-entry, like another PL championship.

"X" can easily be determined based on OOTP 20 and the number of multi championship owners vs everyone else.

Lastly, let me add that this is baseball. Pyramids are fine and dandy, but teams don't move up or down in baseball based on wins/losses etc (that's bloody soccer). You're sanctioned as a MLB team when the league allows it, indicating you have the proper resources to establish and maintain a competitive franchise. So honestly, all the pyramid should be for in a sim is for the Devs pockets and to separate out who is the cream of the crop, so that they can all play each other. If you have too many AAA teams playing MLB teams, you should make better criteria for a final tier.

(As an aside, is there a reason we can't rename these tiers to rookie, A, AA, AAA, and MLB? Would be way more thematic).
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Old 01-22-2020, 02:45 PM   #29
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When we add another intervening tier, we'll get the same arguments being made about 2 weeks later. It never ends. There is no 'Championship Socialism' folks...and there never will be. Let's move along to more productive topics...like, how much drive space do any of you devote to OOTP, not including the app? I'm at 41GB right now, having just cleaned out a bunch of old saves. 30 of that is 3d stadiums though...
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Old 01-22-2020, 03:43 PM   #30
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the lack of pyramid and the reward structure are a problem. the optimal way to play should not be to stay at iron as long as possible

Well, if limits to tanking were programmed into the coding, we wouldn't have to change the rewards - nor would we have to play Cops.
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Old 01-22-2020, 03:57 PM   #31
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Basically, when my team reached the Perfect League level most of the fun was gone.

I check every few days looking if there are enough points to buy a pack, I somehow managed to slip into the play-offs a few times as a wild-card team ...
but that's it.

Playing against teams that win 140+ games on the Perfect League level simply is no fun at all.
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Old 01-22-2020, 03:58 PM   #32
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I definitely agree that mechanics within the game are far superior to internet police looking into everyone. That is one way to fix the problem within a season at least, but there is still the fact that most people are encouraged to sandbag until they get bored with it. If you are going to buy a ton of points then it doesn't matter and you can move up right away, but the only other people doing it are ones who don't know any better and then quickly find themselves in perfect team purgatory.
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Old 01-22-2020, 05:25 PM   #33
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I think that's why a reset option is a potentially good idea, esp if the upper tiers are non-relegated...picking the team out with all iron cards to "tank" is easy to spot and no longer has any incentive.

On a reset, Playoff/Championship wiped, cards wiped. Cards are sold back at the current, historical (or something) average, and the owner can rebuild a team from there starting over in the player pool like any new team.

Another option is scaling achievements upward as you climb up tiers, so that there is no incentive to stay in the lower tier like Iron. If they like the current metrics, just adjust iron and bronze to be X% lower in rewards compared to current.
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Old 01-22-2020, 10:44 PM   #34
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(As an aside, is there a reason we can't rename these tiers to rookie, A, AA, AAA, and MLB? Would be way more thematic).
We cannot use the MILB equivalents for Perfect Team levels
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Old 01-22-2020, 10:51 PM   #35
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I'd just like to say it's cool that one of the worst OP's in recent memory has led to some actual useful discussion between the community and OOTP. Kinda like the new growth after a forest fire.
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Old 01-23-2020, 11:16 AM   #36
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I see you facing west, but your compliment came from the south.
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