Home | Webstore
Latest News: OOTP Update 20.8 - OOTP 20 Available - FHM 6 Available

Announcing OOTP 21, Pre-Order Now!

  

Go Back   OOTP Developments Forums > Out of the Park Baseball 20 > OOTP 20 - General Discussions

OOTP 20 - General Discussions Everything about the newest version of Out of the Park Baseball - officially licensed by MLB.com and the MLBPA.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-09-2020, 11:42 PM   #41
ezpkns34
All Star Reserve
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 587
Thanks: 102
Thanked 211x in 130 posts
From what I can tell, there seems to be a semantic breakdown between how some are viewing what's happening

Some seem to be bothered that OSA's overall/potential ratings don't seem to change based on scouting accuracy settings

Some seem to think that this possible issue potentially equates to 100% accuracy for OSA

IF OSA's overall/potentials never change despite putting scouting accuracy at low or high or anywhere between, that doesn't necessarily mean that those OSA ratings are in fact accurate (even before the development engine is even brought into it)

However, I believe Dyzalot's point is that when there's a change in scouting accuracy, that the OSA overall/potential ratings should be expected to change somewhat also (assuming they aren't)
ezpkns34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2020, 01:51 AM   #42
Dyzalot
All Star Starter
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,629
Thanks: 60
Thanked 497x in 326 posts
Not sure how much of the thread you have read but my research seems to indicate that on the overall potential rating, the OSA scout is always spot on with the result you get from 100% scouting accuracy. My research did show that all of the individual ratings change. But think about this. If you are looking at your scout on a prospect and he's rated as three stars overall but the OSA scout has him at four stars yet when you look at the individual ratings your scout has him rated as a higher potential than OSA at every rating, then it would seem as if the overall potential rating as scouted by OSA removes the "fog of war". That doesn't mean you will have accuracy to know if a guy is rated highly because he has high contact, power or other potentials, but just knowing that the true overall potential is always showing the "100% accuracy" value means you should just scout by that one metric and almost ignore everything else.

EDIT: I meant this to be in reply to Hrycaj

Last edited by Dyzalot; 01-10-2020 at 01:53 AM.
Dyzalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2020, 01:56 AM   #43
Dyzalot
All Star Starter
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,629
Thanks: 60
Thanked 497x in 326 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezpkns34 View Post

Some seem to think that this possible issue potentially equates to 100% accuracy for OSA
But can't one infer that from the fact that OSA seems to consistently match what a team scout shows when accuracy is set to 100%? Like even at the "very low" setting for scouting accuracy, it appears, at least in the smallish sample size I used, that at every level of scouting accuracy, OSA shows whatever will be shown when set to 100% accuracy. That seems to indicate to me, unless 100% accuracy isn't actually 100% accurate, that the overall potential rating as scouted by OSA is always spot on.
Dyzalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2020, 07:33 AM   #44
WIUPIKE
All Star Reserve
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Nashville Area
Posts: 962
Thanks: 297
Thanked 289x in 199 posts
Also remember if it's on relative ratings it compares to the players in the league not true ratings so the overall rating being discussed isnt the actual overall rating its how the scout compares to the rest of the league. If this is going to be looked at do you have the data in how the non relative ratings look?
WIUPIKE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2020, 10:42 AM   #45
damientheomen3
Hall Of Famer
 
damientheomen3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: with my army of orangutans
Posts: 2,720
Thanks: 1,273
Thanked 627x in 392 posts
Could be that maybe something is happening weirdly in-game with real-life prospect draftees because they're not created by the game. Since that seems to be mostly what people have tested in here, I'll check in a fictional league when I get home from work.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by axezzy View Post
spotted an 11-run lead, then going into the 9th up by 8 and not a single out recorded (using three relief pitchers all warmed up), nine runs score... game over? nope, thank the demo for saving me $20 on the after the season special or/and another $35-40 on 14. I will NOT be purchasing this piece of crap!
You see, this guy here, he is that guy. Don't be that guy.


Join the VHL today!
damientheomen3 is offline   Reply With Quote
2 thanks for this post:
BirdWatcher (01-10-2020), Dyzalot (01-10-2020)
Old 01-10-2020, 10:57 AM   #46
BirdWatcher
Hall Of Famer
 
BirdWatcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Denver, Colorado
Posts: 2,619
Thanks: 1,958
Thanked 1,064x in 760 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by damientheomen3 View Post
Could be that maybe something is happening weirdly in-game with real-life prospect draftees because they're not created by the game. Since that seems to be mostly what people have tested in here, I'll check in a fictional league when I get home from work.
I will be curious to see what you find in that regard.
I only play fictional these days and anecdotally it feels like scouting is working as advertised. In other words, my sense is that my very fine head scout does a better job of projecting future big leaguers than the OSA does. But this is admittedly purely an anecdotal impression, based upon no rigorous study.
__________________

The Denver Brewers of the W.P. Kinsella League--
The fun starts here: https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=289570
And continues here: https://forums.ootpdevelopments.com/...d.php?t=289570
BirdWatcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
damientheomen3 (01-10-2020)
Old 01-10-2020, 11:07 AM   #47
Hrycaj
All Star Reserve
 
Hrycaj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 793
Thanks: 523
Thanked 402x in 219 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by damientheomen3 View Post
Could be that maybe something is happening weirdly in-game with real-life prospect draftees because they're not created by the game. Since that seems to be mostly what people have tested in here, I'll check in a fictional league when I get home from work.
What I did was with a completely fictional league.
__________________
Click on my signature to read "A Baseball Story". A fictional dynasty report about the great game of baseball.

Hrycaj is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
BirdWatcher (01-10-2020)
Old 01-10-2020, 11:13 AM   #48
damientheomen3
Hall Of Famer
 
damientheomen3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: with my army of orangutans
Posts: 2,720
Thanks: 1,273
Thanked 627x in 392 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrycaj View Post
What I did was with a completely fictional league.
Yeah yours was the only example I saw that lined up with what I'm going for and I'm curious to expand upon that to see if the issue is potentially real-life prospects being scouted weirdly.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by axezzy View Post
spotted an 11-run lead, then going into the 9th up by 8 and not a single out recorded (using three relief pitchers all warmed up), nine runs score... game over? nope, thank the demo for saving me $20 on the after the season special or/and another $35-40 on 14. I will NOT be purchasing this piece of crap!
You see, this guy here, he is that guy. Don't be that guy.


Join the VHL today!
damientheomen3 is offline   Reply With Quote
2 thanks for this post:
BirdWatcher (01-10-2020), Hrycaj (01-10-2020)
Old 01-10-2020, 01:48 PM   #49
zalexander91
Bat Boy
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 7
Thanks: 75
Thanked 0x in 0 posts
I've always been aware of this as well. OSA potential rating is always 100% accurate to the players true potential. The OSA doesnt do a good job of always quantifying the exact skills like contact, power, etc. but they will nail down the exact potential rating. I'm sure the OOTP team could fix this up. I always draft really well just by sorting out the draft pool by OSA potential, which has really hurt some of the immersion for me.
zalexander91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2020, 04:20 PM   #50
Dyzalot
All Star Starter
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,629
Thanks: 60
Thanked 497x in 326 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by WIUPIKE View Post
Also remember if it's on relative ratings it compares to the players in the league not true ratings so the overall rating being discussed isnt the actual overall rating its how the scout compares to the rest of the league. If this is going to be looked at do you have the data in how the non relative ratings look?
That shouldn't matter since it should equally affect both scouting systems, shouldn't it?
Dyzalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2020, 05:02 PM   #51
Dyzalot
All Star Starter
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,629
Thanks: 60
Thanked 497x in 326 posts
I'm going to do a test with fictional as well. Starting a new fictional save right now based upon the standard 2019 MLB setup. Will sim once again to the date of the release of the draft class and then I'll take a look at some of the top prospects listed in that email.
Dyzalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2020, 05:17 PM   #52
Dyzalot
All Star Starter
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,629
Thanks: 60
Thanked 497x in 326 posts
Ok here's my first example. I set up a fictional league based upon the 2019 MLB format. Populated the teams with random fictional players and simmed to the release of the first draft class. I also edited the team's scout to have max ratings for all scouting so as to have as little variation as possible in the team scout to compare that to whatever variation there is in the OSA scout. Once again you will see three pictures for each player. First one is with scouting accuracy set to "very low", the second one will be on "normal" and the last one is shown with "100% accuracy". Here is the first one. As you can see from the first example, it appears this is affecting fictional as well. I'll do a few more though to see if we get the same pattern as we saw when I did it with real players.
Attached Images
Image Image Image 
Dyzalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2020, 05:26 PM   #53
Dyzalot
All Star Starter
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,629
Thanks: 60
Thanked 497x in 326 posts
Here is the next one. On this one the OSA overall matches the scout's overall at every scouting level. Note though that the current overall is more accurate with OSA than my scout. Also let's remember that I now am doing this with the best scout possible. So logically it would seem to me that a team scout with maxed ratings should on average scout more accurately than OSA scouting. Therefore we should see some examples where my scout is more accurate than OSA on overall potentials at lower scouting accuracy settings. I'll do a few more and see if we see any that work that way.
Attached Images
Image Image Image 
Dyzalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2020, 05:30 PM   #54
Dyzalot
All Star Starter
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,629
Thanks: 60
Thanked 497x in 326 posts
Next one...
Attached Images
Image Image Image 
Dyzalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2020, 05:32 PM   #55
Dyzalot
All Star Starter
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,629
Thanks: 60
Thanked 497x in 326 posts
OK someone can do more of these if they want a larger sample size but I've seen enough. Across five "real life" prospects and three fictional prospects, OSA has never been incorrect on what 100% accuracy scouting would show for the overall no matter what scouting accuracy is set. I have definitely seen enough myself to hope that the OOTP devs take a look at this to see if it is an actual problem.
Dyzalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2020, 06:02 PM   #56
Matt Arnold
OOTP Developer
 
Matt Arnold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Here and there
Posts: 9,164
Thanks: 998
Thanked 11,348x in 4,472 posts
Thanks for everyone's work in looking into this. There's a lot of moving pieces to scouting/OSA and the ratings, it definitely appears that the OSA ratings are shifting as much relative to the accuracy settings as most normal scouts shift.
__________________
Matt Arnold is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
Rain King (01-12-2020)
Old 01-10-2020, 06:17 PM   #57
Dyzalot
All Star Starter
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,629
Thanks: 60
Thanked 497x in 326 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Arnold View Post
Thanks for everyone's work in looking into this. There's a lot of moving pieces to scouting/OSA and the ratings, it definitely appears that the OSA ratings are shifting as much relative to the accuracy settings as most normal scouts shift.
Are you ignoring the evidence on the overalls? OSA isn't shifting even 1%. And not to be a jerk about this but I put a lot of time into this for you to just come back like some DOJ rep telling me Epstein really did kill himself. I mean the evidence is plain as day and you make a post like that? I'm feeling pretty disrespected.

Last edited by Dyzalot; 01-10-2020 at 06:23 PM.
Dyzalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
zalexander91 (01-11-2020)
Old 01-10-2020, 08:10 PM   #58
Matt Arnold
OOTP Developer
 
Matt Arnold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Here and there
Posts: 9,164
Thanks: 998
Thanked 11,348x in 4,472 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyzalot View Post
Are you ignoring the evidence on the overalls? OSA isn't shifting even 1%. And not to be a jerk about this but I put a lot of time into this for you to just come back like some DOJ rep telling me Epstein really did kill himself. I mean the evidence is plain as day and you make a post like that? I'm feeling pretty disrespected.
I can't say more because I haven't had the chance yet to dig down into it, but that is the plan in the next little bit.
__________________
Matt Arnold is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
Dyzalot (01-10-2020)
Old 01-10-2020, 09:00 PM   #59
Dyzalot
All Star Starter
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,629
Thanks: 60
Thanked 497x in 326 posts
OK. I apologize if I came off a bit caustic in that last post but your previous post seemed like you had already made the determination that everything was "kosher". Thanks for looking further into this.
Dyzalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2020, 10:50 PM   #60
ThePride87
Bat Boy
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 15
Thanks: 10
Thanked 6x in 4 posts
I guess a lot of us didn't notice this given we're trained to ignore the OSA and always go with our scout....after testing I too can see OSA never changing from Very Low to Normal to 100%, but my scout suddenly 100% agrees with the OSA on 100% scouting. This is happening with every player on my team.

Edit: I understand the ratings under the hood are changing, I'm speaking along the lines of overall and potential grades for the player as a whole. That's where I'm seeing the problem....the whole point of the overall and potential ratings is to give you an big-picture viewpoint of the player, (regardless of how everyone here likes to play the game, please spare me a lecture). I would expect, for instance, OSA's rating of Jason Foley (Closer,Tigers) to not stay at 22/58 at all times while his basic pitching ratings are changing as I keep switching the scouting accuracy. Makes no sense. My team scout's overall and potential ratings are definitely bending as I make accuracy changes, why isn't OSA's?


JASON FOLEY - TIGERS (using him as a random example)

VERY LOW ACCURACY - OSA

Stuff 50/65
Movement 40/50
Control 30/30
Overall/Potential - 22/58

VERY LOW ACCURACY - TEAM SCOUT

Stuff 50/65
Movement 35/45
Control 35/35
Overall/Potential - 20/36


NORMAL ACCURACY - OSA

Stuff 50/65
Movement 40/50
Control 30/35
Overall/Potential - 22/58

NORMAL ACCURACY - TEAM SCOUT

Stuff 50/65
Movement 40/45
Control 35/35
Overall/Potential - 20/36

100% ACCURACY - OSA

Stuff 50/70
Movement 40/50
Control 35/45
Overall/Potential - 22/58

100% ACCURACY - TEAM SCOUT

Stuff 50/70
Movement 40/50
Control 35/45
Overall/Potential - 22/58


How in the world could this player gain 5 potential to Stuff and 15 potential to Control, yet stay EXACTLY at 22/58 (as a closer)? Maybe with stars you could argue you wouldn't notice a change because it's such a bad rating system with only 10 outcomes, but a perfect 20-80 scale, you're telling me that didn't change his 58 potential one bit from low accuracy to 100%? Seems odd to me, it feels like the overall/potential ratings are stuck at 100% given the team scout agrees at that setting.

If I'm being redundant, I apologize, but I'm worried some people would only look at the stuff/movement/control settings, not seeing the problem being presented. I know some people here like to do "stats only" or maybe only care about the "stuff" rating for relievers, but I'm someone who loves to rely on the scouting to give me a rough estimate of what a player is/could be big-picture....this possible bug means I really had better hope I don't accidentally click on OSA and see the true ratings of my players. That would KILL the immersion for me.

Anyway, back to my hole....thank you Dyzalot for your efforts in this thread. Wanted to back you up.

Last edited by ThePride87; 01-10-2020 at 11:41 PM.
ThePride87 is offline   Reply With Quote
2 thanks for this post:
IanIachimoe (01-12-2020), zalexander91 (01-11-2020)
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:02 AM.

 

Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

The Major League Baseball Players Association (www.MLBPLAYERS.com ) is the collective bargaining representative for all professional baseball players of the thirty Major League Baseball teams and serves as the exclusive group licensing agent for commercial and licensing activities involving active Major League baseball players. On behalf of its members, it operates the Players Choice licensing program and the Players Choice Awards, which benefit the needy through the Major League Baseball Players Trust, a charitable foundation established and run entirely by Major League baseball players. Follow: @MLB_Players; @MLBPAClubhouse; @MLBPlayersTrust

Out of the Park Baseball is a registered trademark of Out of the Park Developments GmbH & Co. KG

Google Play is a trademark of Google Inc.

Apple, iPhone, iPod touch and iPad are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.

COPYRIGHT © 2017 OUT OF THE PARK DEVELOPMENTS. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © 2020 Out of the Park Developments