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Old 01-04-2020, 04:04 PM   #1
talesvin
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OSA scouting is broken?

I did some testing with scouting accuracy and OSA is always right, and doesn't matter the level of scouting accuracy, OSA will always have 100% accuracy on all the players on my saves, is that a bug or there is a option that i enabled without knowing about? I tested this behavior in more than 1 save and OSA always have 100% accuracy.
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Old 01-04-2020, 06:10 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talesvin View Post
I did some testing with scouting accuracy and OSA is always right, and doesn't matter the level of scouting accuracy, OSA will always have 100% accuracy on all the players on my saves, is that a bug or there is a option that i enabled without knowing about? I tested this behavior in more than 1 save and OSA always have 100% accuracy.
Curious how you did this test
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Old 01-04-2020, 06:28 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by CBeisbol View Post
Curious how you did this test

I started a new game as the rays, when the draft pool was announced i decided to check the players on the pool, and then i noticed that OSA had a huge disparity in ratings from my scout, so i got curious and went in the options and changed the scout accuracy from normal to 100%, and all the players OSA stated were going to have a big potential were on top of the list but the ones my scout liked were all down on the list, just like OSA was telling me they were going to be. So i decided to check this with more players while changing the scout accuracy through normal, low and 100%, and all the times OSA would be correct about the players potential and current overall. After that i created a fresh save and did the same and OSA was correct once again, and at last i created a fictional save too just in case, and OSA was 100% correct once again too! I looked through my options to see if i changed something but i did not, so i don't know what is happening, OSA is always 100% accurate on all the players on my game, and this is making having a scout unnecessary.



All the times that i was changing the scout accuracy i clicked on Run full re-scouting and some of the times i even clicked on the clean up scouting database option.
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Old 01-07-2020, 11:01 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talesvin View Post
I started a new game as the rays, when the draft pool was announced i decided to check the players on the pool, and then i noticed that OSA had a huge disparity in ratings from my scout, so i got curious and went in the options and changed the scout accuracy from normal to 100%, and all the players OSA stated were going to have a big potential were on top of the list but the ones my scout liked were all down on the list, just like OSA was telling me they were going to be. So i decided to check this with more players while changing the scout accuracy through normal, low and 100%, and all the times OSA would be correct about the players potential and current overall. After that i created a fresh save and did the same and OSA was correct once again, and at last i created a fictional save too just in case, and OSA was 100% correct once again too! I looked through my options to see if i changed something but i did not, so i don't know what is happening, OSA is always 100% accurate on all the players on my game, and this is making having a scout unnecessary.



All the times that i was changing the scout accuracy i clicked on Run full re-scouting and some of the times i even clicked on the clean up scouting database option.
Hope we can figue this out I'm going to check and see if this is the case in my game. I admit I never use OSA unless all my scouted players are the same with my scout, then I will look to see what OSA has to say.
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Old 01-08-2020, 08:50 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talesvin View Post
I started a new game as the rays, when the draft pool was announced i decided to check the players on the pool, and then i noticed that OSA had a huge disparity in ratings from my scout, so i got curious and went in the options and changed the scout accuracy from normal to 100%, and all the players OSA stated were going to have a big potential were on top of the list but the ones my scout liked were all down on the list, just like OSA was telling me they were going to be. So i decided to check this with more players while changing the scout accuracy through normal, low and 100%, and all the times OSA would be correct about the players potential and current overall. After that i created a fresh save and did the same and OSA was correct once again, and at last i created a fictional save too just in case, and OSA was 100% correct once again too! I looked through my options to see if i changed something but i did not, so i don't know what is happening, OSA is always 100% accurate on all the players on my game, and this is making having a scout unnecessary.



All the times that i was changing the scout accuracy i clicked on Run full re-scouting and some of the times i even clicked on the clean up scouting database option.
Do you know what OSA is??

The potential ratings at that point is their truth, but once the players fully develop they are generally a complete different animal.

This thread is very misleading.

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Last edited by Sharkn20; 01-08-2020 at 08:53 AM.
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Old 01-08-2020, 02:07 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Sharkn20 View Post
Do you know what OSA is??

The potential ratings at that point is their truth, but once the players fully develop they are generally a complete different animal.

This thread is very misleading.

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I don't even know what that means. Shouldn't OSA ratings work the same as scout ratings in terms of accuracy or "fog of war"? From what I gather from this thread, the OP is saying that it isn't the case that it does. In fact he's stating that it seems that OSA gives you scouting at 100% accuracy no matter what settings you have for scouting accuracy. Now this thread is a bit confusing so maybe I totally missed the mark on what is being stated but that was my interpretation.
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Old 01-08-2020, 02:38 PM   #7
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What this experiment shows is that, when scouting accuracy is set to 100 percent, all scouts agree with the POT OSA ratings. It doesn't show that the OSA ratings are an accurate prediction of future performance.

An experiment that would be meaningful is this: Select a large number of draft-eligible players. Sort them by the difference between their OSA ratings and the ratings given by a scout with a "Legendary" rating for scouting amateurs. Simulate 20 years, compare the careers of the selected players, and determine from that whose Potential ratings were more on-target.
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Old 01-08-2020, 02:40 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Dyzalot View Post
I don't even know what that means. Shouldn't OSA ratings work the same as scout ratings in terms of accuracy or "fog of war"? From what I gather from this thread, the OP is saying that it isn't the case that it does. In fact he's stating that it seems that OSA gives you scouting at 100% accuracy no matter what settings you have for scouting accuracy. Now this thread is a bit confusing so maybe I totally missed the mark on what is being stated but that was my interpretation.
No, you're clearly correct as far as I can tell
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Old 01-08-2020, 02:46 PM   #9
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What this thread's hypothesis is saying is that OSA is the best scouting tool, and always accurate. That it will be better to use OSA than having a scout with all LEGENDARY ratings.

If this is true that would be a big disappointment, and would render a major part of the game not working as intended. Maybe I'll look at it sometime to provide another data point. Others can do so as well.
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Old 01-08-2020, 02:54 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by TomVeal View Post
What this experiment shows is that, when scouting accuracy is set to 100 percent, all scouts agree with the POT OSA ratings. It doesn't show that the OSA ratings are an accurate prediction of future performance.

An experiment that would be meaningful is this: Select a large number of draft-eligible players. Sort them by the difference between their OSA ratings and the ratings given by a scout with a "Legendary" rating for scouting amateurs. Simulate 20 years, compare the careers of the selected players, and determine from that whose Potential ratings were more on-target.
Shouldn't you just be able to compare OSA ratings as shown when using scouting inaccuracy to those shown when using perfect scouting? Why go through all the trouble of simming?
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Old 01-08-2020, 03:00 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomVeal View Post
What this experiment shows is that, when scouting accuracy is set to 100 percent, all scouts agree with the POT OSA ratings. It doesn't show that the OSA ratings are an accurate prediction of future performance.

An experiment that would be meaningful is this: Select a large number of draft-eligible players. Sort them by the difference between their OSA ratings and the ratings given by a scout with a "Legendary" rating for scouting amateurs. Simulate 20 years, compare the careers of the selected players, and determine from that whose Potential ratings were more on-target.
Actually, no. What you'd need to do is sort them by potential ratings and then look at their max potential rating in the editor at that same moment. If you simmed 20 years and looked at career stats, you're introducing the development engine, TCR and injury-related changes, so a lot could change in those 20 years.

I've read the OP at least a half dozen times and I can't fully comprehend what the hypothesis is. If someone has a more succinct way of explaining it and the author of the OP could confirm it's right, that would be helpful (for me, at least).

EDIT: I guess what I should say is that I don't understand the evidence behind the hypothesis. I get that the OP says OSA scouting is always right. But I can't follow the explanation of the evidence no matter how many times I read it.

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Old 01-08-2020, 04:16 PM   #12
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Actually, no. What you'd need to do is sort them by potential ratings and then look at their max potential rating in the editor at that same moment. If you simmed 20 years and looked at career stats, you're introducing the development engine, TCR and injury-related changes, so a lot could change in those 20 years.

I've read the OP at least a half dozen times and I can't fully comprehend what the hypothesis is. If someone has a more succinct way of explaining it and the author of the OP could confirm it's right, that would be helpful (for me, at least).

EDIT: I guess what I should say is that I don't understand the evidence behind the hypothesis. I get that the OP says OSA scouting is always right. But I can't follow the explanation of the evidence no matter how many times I read it.
The evidence seems pretty straightforward. Start a new game. Look at the draft list. Compare OSA ratings across several scouting accuracy settings. If the OSA ratings never change then there is a problem. It means the scouting "fog of war" isn't being applied to the OSA scouting.
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Old 01-08-2020, 06:19 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Dyzalot View Post
The evidence seems pretty straightforward. Start a new game. Look at the draft list. Compare OSA ratings across several scouting accuracy settings. If the OSA ratings never change then there is a problem. It means the scouting "fog of war" isn't being applied to the OSA scouting.
If OSA ratings don't change, but a hired scouts ratings do change, then how do we know which one is right when scouting is set to 100 percent accuracy? Maybe OSA ratings are always under this "fog of war" you speak of. Did OP check to make sure his scout's ratings change when the scout accuracy setting is changed? If they did, then it seems to me things are working fine.

I'll say it again ... until someone compares OSA ratings to the actual ratings in the player editor, there's no way to tell what's right and what's wrong.
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Old 01-08-2020, 06:57 PM   #14
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My interpretation of OP's analysis

I think the point OP is making is that OSA's ratings and evaluations always match the "100% accurate" scout setting. And the problem with this is OSA is, or was at some point in OOTP's history, positioned as a conglomerate generic scouting agency that everyone has access to. So if OSA is always 100% accurate, then that means there is no fog of war with OSA. I guess the assumption or preference is that OSA is just another scout. May be 100% accurate, may be 50% accurate. We shouldn't know.
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Old 01-08-2020, 07:25 PM   #15
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If OSA ratings don't change, but a hired scouts ratings do change, then how do we know which one is right when scouting is set to 100 percent accuracy? Maybe OSA ratings are always under this "fog of war" you speak of. Did OP check to make sure his scout's ratings change when the scout accuracy setting is changed? If they did, then it seems to me things are working fine.

I'll say it again ... until someone compares OSA ratings to the actual ratings in the player editor, there's no way to tell what's right and what's wrong.
Or maybe when you get to 100% accuracy and OSA now matches what your scout says, then it was never under the "fog of war". Also, if you change the severity of the "fog of war" then you'd expect how much variability is in the OSA scouting to decrease as well. So even without comparing at 100% to a team scout, your "spidey senses" should be raised when you see the OSA scouting, as you change how much "fog of war" you want, doesn't change. The scout sees the same ratings no matter how your scouting accuracy is set. I think the problem is that it is now obvious that OSA scouting and the scouting by a team scout are not subject to the same variables. That seems strange. It also means that when playing with scouting, you should just ignore your own scout and draft or trade based upon OSA scouting. Of course this will be one more instance where the player gains an advantage as the AI will still be playing "fair" by using their own teams' scouts to evaluate players.
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Old 01-08-2020, 07:56 PM   #16
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One thing important to note is that on 100% accuracy, OSA is also 100% accurate. So if you set things to 100% accurate, your scout will match OSA exactly.

Otherwise, they certainly won't be 100% all the time. The simplest way to check that is to simply take a save and see OSA ratings for specific players on both normal and 100%, and see that the OSA ratings change between the two.
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Old 01-08-2020, 10:06 PM   #17
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One thing important to note is that on 100% accuracy, OSA is also 100% accurate. So if you set things to 100% accurate, your scout will match OSA exactly.

Otherwise, they certainly won't be 100% all the time. The simplest way to check that is to simply take a save and see OSA ratings for specific players on both normal and 100%, and see that the OSA ratings change between the two.
Pretty sure the OP tried looking at the OSA ratings with different scouting accuracy settings and the ratings didn't change. That's the problem. I see that you are stating that they do change so someone is wrong. Going to start a new QS and see what my research shows. Do the OSA ratings change with a change in scouting accuracy or do they always show the same ratings regardless of accuracy settings? I'll report back later with my findings.
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Old 01-08-2020, 10:27 PM   #18
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Ok that didn't take very long. I started a modern QS, simmed to the point of the draft class being released and then took a look at the first guy listed in the email, Andrew Vaughn. I started with scouting accuracy at the lowest setting and then moved it up one spot, did a full rescout and took another look at the scouting page. As you can see, after just doing this three times such that the last one was at a scouting accuracy of "normal", the OSA scouted ratings are obviously changing each time. Therefore I'm not sure what the OP discovered since it appears that Matt's reply was correct in that those ratings do change, regardless of what was posted by the OP. Below are what I saw at each scouting level, from very low to low and then at normal.
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Old 01-08-2020, 11:01 PM   #19
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Only thing i see from above poster is that OSA ratings do not change drastically, even the potential remains the same, and the team's scout ratings are all over the place .. it proves the OP is correct when he says that OSA's ratings are always accurate ..
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Old 01-09-2020, 12:39 AM   #20
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Only thing i see from above poster is that OSA ratings do not change drastically, even the potential remains the same, and the team's scout ratings are all over the place .. it proves the OP is correct when he says that OSA's ratings are always accurate ..
If they were always accurate then they wouldn't change as you change scouting accuracy. The claim made by the OP is that those ratings didn't change. I showed how there is a change just going from "very low" to "low" to "normal" scouting accuracy. There is still "high", "very high" and "100%" to go. I showed that the OP was incorrect in his assertion that those ratings didn't change as you changed scouting accuracy. That was all I was trying to investigate since Matt said they did and the OP said they didn't.
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