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Old 12-29-2019, 05:00 PM   #1
monkeyman576
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Infield Miscommunication breaks up Freddy Garcia no hitter in 9th

Shouldn't this be an error?
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Old 12-29-2019, 05:16 PM   #2
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No, the game followed the major league convention of not awarding errors on this type of play.


Yes, MLB should score this type of play has an error. But, they never have.

This is a hit, for example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=i3sK9pupFHU
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Old 12-29-2019, 10:48 PM   #3
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Also another thing to consider...the official scoring doesn’t consider the commentary.

I play on “short pbp”, so I only see the count and end result. In other words, this would just show as a SINGLE on the pbp for me.


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Old 12-29-2019, 11:53 PM   #4
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These type of plays drive me crazy- well, when it goes against my team anyway.
But I agree with others that this is the type of mental error, where nobody actually touches the ball until it hits the ground, that is never called an error on the defense.
Still, the fact that it broke up a no-hitter: heartbreaking.
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Old 12-31-2019, 11:40 AM   #5
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So you have three guys running for the ball and they all collide and the ball drops. Who do you give the error to?
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Old 12-31-2019, 12:13 PM   #6
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If memory serves, MLB has the policy that if you can't award an error to any one player, an error didn't occur on a play. In turn, in this case since it wasn't a sacrifice bunt attempt, no error occurred, there was no fielder's choice or anything that caused an out somewhere else, and everyone is safe, it kind of has to be a hit.

Frankly I'd be just fine with getting over the Bash Brothers with a 1-hitter, even if you're playing as the 116-win Mariners...
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Old 12-31-2019, 12:56 PM   #7
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Quote:
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So you have three guys running for the ball and they all collide and the ball drops. Who do you give the error to?
Team error

Or partial error

Or get rid of errors entirely
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Old 12-31-2019, 01:17 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by CBeisbol View Post
Team error

Or partial error

Or get rid of errors entirely
Unallocated error?
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Old 12-31-2019, 01:19 PM   #9
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Or get rid of errors entirely
They're trying to do that with more home runs and strike outs.
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Old 12-31-2019, 04:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBeisbol View Post
Team error

Or partial error

Or get rid of errors entirely

Replace errors with "unearned hits", maybe.

Then any missed execution, mental or physical, can result in an unearned hit.

This would go fine with RBOE (rename it RBOU... reached base on unearned hit).

And it uses the same terminology as the existing unearned run.

RHE becomes RHU - Runs, Hits, Unearned Hits. Then plays like the ones in that youtube vid don't break up no hitters (no earned hits).

Last edited by KBLover; 12-31-2019 at 04:47 PM.
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Old 12-31-2019, 04:50 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KBLover View Post
Replace errors with "unearned hits", maybe.

Then any missed execution, mental or physical, can result in an unearned hit.

This would go fine with RBOE (rename it RBOU... reached base on unearned hit).

And it uses the same terminology as the existing unearned run.

RHE becomes RHU - Runs, Hits, Unearned Hits
I'm somewhat surprised that they haven't done this. You could also then discount them from a batter's line entirely at that point - treat it like a walk, counts towards their OBP but not for or against their batting average. Then this "Team error" counts the same on a batter as any individual error, neither helping nor hurting him.
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Old 12-31-2019, 07:07 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KBLover View Post
Replace errors with "unearned hits", maybe.

Then any missed execution, mental or physical, can result in an unearned hit.

This would go fine with RBOE (rename it RBOU... reached base on unearned hit).

And it uses the same terminology as the existing unearned run.

RHE becomes RHU - Runs, Hits, Unearned Hits. Then plays like the ones in that youtube vid don't break up no hitters (no earned hits).
I'm generally, ok with that.

Reached Base - unearned. Along those lines.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Arnold View Post
I'm somewhat surprised that they haven't done this. You could also then discount them from a batter's line entirely at that point - treat it like a walk, counts towards their OBP but not for or against their batting average. Then this "Team error" counts the same on a batter as any individual error, neither helping nor hurting him.
This is where, for me, it gets a bit confusing.

We kind of need granular data/stats for a game. I mean, a lot of people have suggested that baseball be played only on spread sheets or computers, but I, personally, kind of like the real thing. So, we need to keep track of when, at minimum, a player and team score a run and when an out is recorded.

But, for analyzing baseball, this granularity doesn't accurately tell us what happened. When a player scores a run, they get credited with the whole thing. Even if all they did was ground into a fielder's choice then jog around the bases when the next batter hit a home run. And a player gets the same RBI for hitting a solo 500 foot home run as they do for grounding out after another hitter hits a triple.

So errors were, rightly, created to try distinguish between a scorched line drive and a ground ball that Buckner's someone.

But now, with statcast information, even scorched line drives can be expressed in probabilities of a hit. So, the differentiation between a hit and an error, for these purposes, isn't really needed at all. Some batted balls are 90% of a hit, some are 5%. It doesn't matter what (else) *actually* happened.

The ball in the video I linked to probably gets caught 95%+ of the time. That's a lot different than a ball drilled up the middle that is through the infield before anybody can react.

There are some things that are clearly hits.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-seRrLXzmH8

Some things that are clearly errors
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRkspG0KbtQ

and a lot of things that are somewhere in between.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8mxJAidZqA

So, maybe hits, errors (including team errors) and unearned hits (or whatever) to distinguish things that are obvious hits, obvious errors and the grey area.

With hits and unearned hits increasing OBP and ROE counting against it.
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Old 01-03-2020, 04:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
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I'm somewhat surprised that they haven't done this. You could also then discount them from a batter's line entirely at that point - treat it like a walk, counts towards their OBP but not for or against their batting average. Then this "Team error" counts the same on a batter as any individual error, neither helping nor hurting him.
MLB doesn't care much about stats.
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