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Old 01-13-2020, 03:13 PM   #1
AirmenSmith
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Astro's Punishment

So the punishment is out for them. What does everyone think?

They said the cheating was mostly player driven but Hinch got a year suspension, their old assistant GM and current GM a year suspension. Plus 5 million fine and they lost some draft picks.

Honestly seems weak to me considering it seems like they have been doing this for a couple years. Doesn't seem like this will discourage the players from doing it again. I understand the league is afraid to punish the players because of the CBA but sucks more couldn't be done to deter it more.
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Old 01-13-2020, 03:23 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirmenSmith View Post
They said the cheating was mostly player driven
Where did they say this?
(not disputing, just havent' seen it)

Quote:
but Hinch got a year suspension and their old GM a year suspension. Plus 5 million fine and they lost some draft picks.
This is significant, though the maximum $5 million fine is peanuts, and should deter other teams from copying the Astros.
Which is the point.
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Old 01-13-2020, 03:24 PM   #3
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Luhnow is still their GM.

Curious to see what Alex Cora gets now.
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Old 01-13-2020, 03:25 PM   #4
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two first rounders and two second rounders is a lot more significant than "some draft picks"
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Old 01-13-2020, 03:26 PM   #5
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two first rounders and two second rounders is a lot more significant than "some draft picks"
Agreed, especially when their scouting system was so good that the Cardinals hacked into it. They have done very well in the draft.
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Old 01-13-2020, 03:29 PM   #6
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I don't get how it can be "player driven" when Cora left and did something similar in Boston.

I can see why no players would be punished if it was "organization driven". Then you could make a case they were "forced" to participate by management or else. I also don't know how you could quantify how much the players participated to punish them for a year.

I also see this as why the player's union is so strong. If the NFLPA took a cue from the MLBPA, they wouldn't get bullied as much as they have been my the owners & Badell.
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Old 01-13-2020, 03:32 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBeisbol View Post
Where did they say this?
(not disputing, just havent' seen it)

For the player driven part it was in the MLB investigators report. Jeff Passan has it on twitter.


This is significant, though the maximum $5 million fine is peanuts, and should deter other teams from copying the Astros.
Which is the point.
I agree it should deter other teams but I just don't know if it will deter players as they walk away without punishment because they are in a union.
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Old 01-13-2020, 03:36 PM   #8
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I also see this as why the player's union is so strong.
The player's union has been raked over the coals recently.

Players are receiving a small portion of MLB revenue
Competitive Balance Tax
Qualifying offer penalty for players
Draft slotting
Limits on international spending

Lots of recent changes that limit what players are paid.
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Old 01-13-2020, 03:37 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
Luhnow is still their GM.

Fixed my OP. I was referring to the assistant GM. Thanks

Curious to see what Alex Cora gets now.
Yeah I'm wondering as well. Since he has done this with multiple organizations. Probably will be 1 year as well though since they don't seem to want to punish him for something outside his current organization.
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Old 01-13-2020, 03:42 PM   #10
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Actually, it's looking like Cora will face more punishment...

"Cora was involved in developing both the banging scheme and utilizing the replay review room to decode and transmit signs. Cora participated in both schemes, and through his active participation, implicitly condoned the players’conduct. I will withhold determining the appropriate level of discipline for Cora until after the DOI completes its investigation of the allegations that the Red Sox engaged in impermissible electronic sign stealing in 2018 while Cora was the manager."

From https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2020/...aling-mlb.html
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Old 01-13-2020, 03:53 PM   #11
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Hinch and Luhnow being management should have had the integrity to say no to the players. They didn't so they pay the price. I'm not shocked that Manfred didn't take on the PA one year before negotiations start on a new CBA. Disappointed that he didn't at least apply token fines up to the maximum allowed under the CBA for "actions detrimental". I'd bet that some sort of clause will be added to future CBA's or maybe standard player contracts spelling out punishment for cheating in this manner.

Speaking of cheating can one assume that all Astro players now, shall we say convicted, will be left off ballots for awards and the HoF?
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Old 01-13-2020, 03:59 PM   #12
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As a Dodger fan, I wish it was more. But oh well.
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Old 01-13-2020, 04:04 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBeisbol View Post
The player's union has been raked over the coals recently.

Players are receiving a small portion of MLB revenue
Competitive Balance Tax
Qualifying offer penalty for players
Draft slotting
Limits on international spending

Lots of recent changes that limit what players are paid.
Very very true.
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Old 01-13-2020, 04:06 PM   #14
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Both Luhnow and Hinch fired.

just heard on radio
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Old 01-13-2020, 04:07 PM   #15
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While I don't see the punishment to the organization as a whole as weak (though I agree that the $5m fine is peanutes), I think the players should've been punished. Severely. If taking PED's is messing with the "integrity of the game," then surely cheating in the manner of the 2017 Astros to cop a title is just as bad, if not worse. Especially if it's "player-driven."

I also think that the Astros' championships should have been given an asterisk. That would have been an indirect way of punishing the players and everyone associated with the organization forevermore. As it is, 20 years from now this story will be nearly forgotten. But with an asterisk, the gravity of what they did would resonate in perpetuity, as it should.

As it is, this is merely ho-hum news for the players involved. How, substantively, is this significantly different from 1919? Other than the absence of the gambling angle. It was deliberate, blatant, and MAJOR cheating by players that decided a championship. The Black Sox were banned for life. The Astros who knew about it should be suspended for at least a year. Otherwise, as I noted above, this is ho-hum news for them.

So in the end, this is MLB wimping out, big-time.
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Old 01-13-2020, 04:09 PM   #16
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Both Luhnow and Hinch fired.

just heard on radio
Was just coming to say that. My guess is Cora will get fired too.
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Old 01-13-2020, 04:11 PM   #17
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Both Luhnow and Hinch fired.

just heard on radio
Wow
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Old 01-13-2020, 04:16 PM   #18
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While I don't see the punishment to the organization as a whole as weak (though I agree that the $5m fine is peanutes), I think the players should've been punished. Severely. If taking PED's is messing with the "integrity of the game," then surely cheating in the manner of the 2017 Astros to cop a title is just as bad, if not worse. Especially if it's "player-driven."

I also think that the Astros' championships should have been given an asterisk. That would have been an indirect way of punishing the players and everyone associated with the organization forevermore. As it is, 20 years from now this story will be nearly forgotten. But with an asterisk, the gravity of what they did would resonate in perpetuity, as it should.

As it is, this is merely ho-hum news for the players involved. How, substantively, is this significantly different from 1919? Other than the absence of the gambling angle. It was deliberate, blatant, and MAJOR cheating by players that decided a championship. The Black Sox were banned for life. The Astros who knew about it should be suspended for at least a year. Otherwise, as I noted above, this is ho-hum news for them.

So in the end, this is MLB wimping out, big-time.
Well one significant difference is that the astros were cheating to win and the white sox were cheating to lose.

I'm actually somewhat surprised the current ESPN headline straight says they "used technology to cheat" instead of soft bull**** like "allegedly stole signs"
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Old 01-13-2020, 04:21 PM   #19
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Well one significant difference is that the astros were cheating to win and the white sox were cheating to lose.
Sure. But in both cases the results are hugely tainted by "player-driven" actions. No difference there. So in the end if the championship of your game is decided by blatant cheating, I'd call that - cheating to win vs cheating to lose - an insignificant difference.
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Old 01-13-2020, 04:51 PM   #20
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Many involved in the Braves scandal received lifetime bans.

And I don’t remember that story getting 1/10 the coverage this one got.
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