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TBCB General Discussions Talk about the new boxing sim, Title Bout. |
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09-16-2018, 01:36 AM | #1 |
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Calling Richard Hanna & Dave Koch
The only way this game will ever survive is to hand it over to Richard Hanna (premier sports game programmer) and Dave Koch (head of PC Action!)...if they're even interested.
Face it. PISD Paul is a total bust. He hasn't produced anything in five years. And what he has produced is bug-ridden garbage. If you're counting on Andreas to intervene, forget it! TBCB is in his rearview mirror. And Trunzo is history! A heap of blame on Andreas for letting the inmates run this institution. With all due respect to Ice Tea, Andreas allowed the players to create ratings for thousands of fighters. I'm as culpable as the rest of those who rated boxers. Look at any other sports game company. They control the ratings and sell them each year. That's how they sustain a profit and are able to pump the money back into improving the game. How could you possibly make a profit (or even break even) when the ratings are given away for free? Of course those of you who clamored for a "management" game played right into the hands of OOTP. They passed off to Paul (I'd really like to know the nature of that "deal") who "works" on TBCB in his "spare" time. Given the fact he could only offer a bug-ridden version of the game in five years tells you something about the commitment he has to TBCB. I've owned all of the incarnations of the game going back to the Trunzo release in the late 1960s. I've been through AH versions, the ABPA efforts, Lance Haffner, and all the rest. So the game has a market, albeit rather small. Personally, it's very sad to see a game I've enjoyed for nearly fifty years go out this way. But if you can't get game pros like Hanna and Koch to take the game over, it's TBCB...R.I.P.
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A Partial Eclipse of the Sonny Laszlo Papp: The Lost Years The Spice O' Life Teofilo Stevenson Pro Simulation Last edited by professordp; 09-16-2018 at 04:03 AM. |
09-16-2018, 10:48 PM | #3 |
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The other sports are TEAM BASED (ok with DK they have a golf and that is way too pricey) so players move to different teams and can either improve, fail or get injured (or as in the case of that Bill's idiot today retire mid game). Boxing is an individual sport and while new fighters appear every year most improve in some area over time and its the promoters making their guys look good by taking on inferior competition. The uni creators have other ideas (and I certainly do) on who fights who. I don't see how it is practical or feasible to come out with a new fighter pack every year. This game is designed for that (and why I have enjoyed playing it over the decades) and it is why I prefer it to those eye candy joke games that EA mashes out every year. Paul is on his own on this and he wants to make this right. As for other matters I cannot comment on (legality reasons most here already know what that means) but each year the other games release a "new" game each year (Madden, OOTP, NHL etc...) with "current" rosters but something else that makes the buyers come back year after year. This game is NOT like that. Yes its a niche product but this one does work.
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09-17-2018, 12:14 PM | #4 |
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The game would have died years ago without the efforts of several volunteers who kept the game breathing with ratings, forum posts, and regular updates of the fighter ratings and bio information. Initially, we had a group of gamers responsible for the fighter ratings, but that quickly fell apart. For the most part, Bear (bare-knuckle boxers) and I have been the only two posting ratings and updates for the last dozen years. I've played the Dave Koch football, baseball, and basketball games and they're excellent. He improves the games each year with new options; they're an excellent company.
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09-17-2018, 01:54 PM | #5 |
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Good points here & Tea's right, this game would have died without his efforts in addition to some other raters like Jacklye, bear, etc.
Also boxing is unique in that most boxers don't have their ratings change all that much year to year - it's not like team sports where a Super Bowl champ can miss the playoffs the following year. |
09-17-2018, 04:27 PM | #6 |
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I owned Dave's Action Baseball game once. It was pretty good but once you played out a season you were left without playoffs and a World Series. Maybe they've corrected this obvious omission, but from what I recall back then Koch enterprises had zero interest in a boxing game. Has that opinion changed?
Paul Norman took over TBCB but he likely overreached himself. One man alone can not produce a quality boxing sim. He's been at it for more than six years. He's turned down financial and technical assistance for whatever reasons. The project is too big. I still enjoy TBCB 2.5. If my copy crashes tomorrow, that will be it for me. I can't see myself starting all over from scratch, having to rate hundreds of boxers or paying for someone else's perception of those same boxers. But, as a famous orange-faced pol likes to say, "We'll see." As for the efforts of our resident boxer raters, while I do not use their product, I can appreciate that others do and are happy to have them. Cap
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09-18-2018, 07:47 PM | #7 |
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I still enjoy TBCB 2.5. If my copy crashes tomorrow, that will be it for me. I can't see myself starting all over from scratch, having to rate hundreds of boxers or paying for someone else's perception of those same boxers.
But, as a famous orange-faced pol likes to say, "We'll see." As for the efforts of our resident boxer raters, while I do not use their product, I can appreciate that others do and are happy to have them. Cap[/QUOTE] After 3 months of downloading fighters & rating others for my personal use 2.5 just crashed again. Argggg!!!! I'll try one more time. ! THX to all whom kept the game alive! |
09-19-2018, 12:16 AM | #8 |
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I think some of you have missed my point. So where do free ratings take the game further? In the end, this all about $$$!
As I said in my initial post, I'm as guilty as the rest for posting ratings. That's a "freebee"; it certainly doesn't help the person who owns the game. It's wonderful that some of you still have faith in Paul/PISD...I don't! Let's face facts. It's been five years now, and all he's produced is a virtually unworkable beta game. Some of you have called me a cynic (or worse) in the past. I like to think I'm a realist. In response, I feel there are a few Pollyannas among those who post here. And that's fine with me. Just see how far free ratings takes the game. Every sports simulation I've played (and that's almost sixty years), the owner exercises tight control over the ratings. The claim that there's a difference between "team" ratings and "individual" ratings is a pathetic canard. When Trunzo was dealing with AH and Lance Haffner, new ratings were sold. It's really since Andreas got his mitts on the game, inmates started running the institution...much to the detriment of TBCB. Downey Games which offers its own boxing game charges for new ratings as well. PLAAY games charged extra for sets of wrestlers, stock car racers, et al. So this "team" versus "individual" rating holds no water. It's a very weak, flatulent argument. So now we pump out ratings for fighters who have a half dozen fights. That's progress???? To quote our late friend, Danny, quantity seems to has surpassed quality as it relates to TBCB. Yet that doesn't seem to count any more. It's "wonderful" to have all these ratings. Thousands upon thousands. But in the end, what are they worth. I marvel at those who can pop out a rating like flipping a coin. I always wonder how much research they actually engage in for these "ratings". I'll go back to the core of my original post. You need a programmer on the level of Richard Hanna and a game producer like Dave Koch to save TBCB. Sorry to lay this on the Pollyannas, but, from what I see, PISD/Paul isn't of this caliber. I don't care if he's working alone or has the Radio City Rockeetes helping him, he's not making the grade. In five years, after the disaster known as TBCB 2013, he's done nothing...zilch!!! Before you pillory me with your counterarguments, just tell me what your solutions are to save TBCB...assuming you have any.
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A Partial Eclipse of the Sonny Laszlo Papp: The Lost Years The Spice O' Life Teofilo Stevenson Pro Simulation Last edited by professordp; 09-19-2018 at 05:28 PM. |
09-19-2018, 12:25 AM | #9 | |
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The game is dying...that's my point!!! |
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09-19-2018, 10:11 AM | #10 |
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09-19-2018, 03:37 PM | #11 |
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Hindsight is always 20/20, but I wonder in retrospect if we didn't unintentionally facilitate the game's decline with these free ratings.
I never gave it much thought until the past six months or so. As I said I'm as culpable as anyone else in this forum with my "Spice O' Life" thread. Didn't we in effect undermine the profitably of TBCB by giving away these ratings for free? This practice is virtually unprecedented in the sports simulation world. Is it unreasonable that you pay ten or fifteen dollars for an update or additional set of boxers? Of course, Andreas is indeed somewhat responsibe for allowing this "free-for-all". We've dug ourselves into a rather deep hole...let's try to figure a way to dig ourselves out!
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A Partial Eclipse of the Sonny Laszlo Papp: The Lost Years The Spice O' Life Teofilo Stevenson Pro Simulation Last edited by professordp; 09-19-2018 at 05:25 PM. |
09-19-2018, 05:09 PM | #12 | |
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I think I'm misreading this, so correct me if I'm wrong. Bear and you are (for the most part) "the only two posting ratings and updates for the last dozen years"???? I think everyone appreciates your efforts, but I wouldn't want others who have contributed to feel slighted I remember the Day Council, Rocco De, the late John Dewey, Jacklye, and a lot of others (including myself) who have posted ratings through the years on their own threads. Could you please clarify?
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A Partial Eclipse of the Sonny Laszlo Papp: The Lost Years The Spice O' Life Teofilo Stevenson Pro Simulation Last edited by professordp; 09-19-2018 at 05:17 PM. |
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09-19-2018, 05:12 PM | #13 | |
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I'd gladly pay that & those could be the official ratings. I appreciate the different views people have in rating fighters - can make for interesting debates. I also use multiple ratings, if I want to build his record use the higher rating but maybe figure he doesn't deserve that high rating if/when he gets a title shot. I try to make my title bouts as competitive as possible. |
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09-19-2018, 06:56 PM | #14 | |
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09-19-2018, 09:49 PM | #15 | |
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If my memory serves me well, my very first post concerned the failure to include the original Battling Torres (circa, late 50's-early 60's) in the official database. Subsequently, I had rated him a number a years ago. I'm not sure he ever got into the database. In my "Spice O' Life" thread, which is exclusively for ratings, I made numerous adjustments to the official database ratings (i.e., Terry Kruger, Harley Breshears, and LaMar Clark, to name just a few). These revisions were generally received positively by members. Yet, they never made it into the official database. I also received positive responses for my revisions of both Bobick brothers, Dick Wipperman, and a host of others. I don't think any of them made it to the official database either. Finally, I rated many boxers who were overlooked by the initial ratings team but deserved a place in the game, considering what's in the official database. Yet they were somehow not included in the official database. The only fighter that I rated that was included in the official pool was Skinny Jimmy Rothwell. But I was never given credit for that one...LOL!. Here's the larger question I have for you. Earlier in this thread, you bemoaned the fact that the initial group of raters sort of fell by the wayside. So does that mean that the official database is simply the exclusive domain of Bear and you (with Jackyle as an occasional contributor)? Or can anyone join. How exactly does this all work? Through the years there have been a number of excellent threads devoted to ratings. Do you ever look at them, or are the ratings contained in the official database simply the product of Bear, Jackyle, and you?
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A Partial Eclipse of the Sonny Laszlo Papp: The Lost Years The Spice O' Life Teofilo Stevenson Pro Simulation Last edited by professordp; 09-19-2018 at 10:09 PM. |
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09-20-2018, 09:14 PM | #16 |
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I';m still wondering how to access that database
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09-20-2018, 10:18 PM | #17 | |
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Cap, Your ratings are in your documents file, and if you've backed them up you shouldn't lose them...even if your entire PC crashes. That's the good news! The bad news is the utility of those saved ratings ultimately depends on whoever has his grimy little paws on programming the game. That could be very bad news!!! But let's think positive. To paraphrase your favorite U.S. President, "Let's Make TBCB Great Again!" Prof P.S. What's going on with Trudeau's eyebrows? |
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09-20-2018, 10:24 PM | #18 |
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If you go to the main page for TBCB, you'll see the the section for the data base. |
09-20-2018, 11:36 PM | #19 |
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but for some reason it is not working for me....
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09-20-2018, 11:42 PM | #20 |
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I want to mention something about this game that is UNIQUE to the boxing games and why a lot of people (including me) would not buy "fighter packs" the RFG generator. Granted its hit and miss but why buy when you can make your own? The RFG I use(d) in ALL of my unis and enjoy the wild variances for the fighters. This is why I will have trouble finding a similar game. To the one that mentioned Downey Games they haven't had a fighter update pack since 2013.
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