End of Season Playoff Issue

BKL · 02-09-2014, 10:33 PM

Hello -

I have a game where there are two leagues, with two divisions in each league. The playoff format is such that there is a division winner for each division and one wildcard per league. The team with the best record in each league gets a bye. The other division winner and wildcard plays a series.

Here's the problem. I have three teams tied (two in one division and one in a second division - my team). The two tied teams in the same division are Minnesota and Kansas City. The other team tied in the second division is New York, each with a 50-30 record (we play 80 game season). The two teams in the same division will need to play a tiebreaker to determine the division winner. The loser will then need to play the third tied team to determine the wildcard winner.

OOTP will schedule the division tiebreaker, in this case between Minnesota and KC. KC losses and then OOTP wants to make NY the automatic wild card winner. Since this doesn't make sense, I go ahead and schedule another regular season game between NY and KC, figuring the winner would then be the wildcard winner. NY loses, therefore should be eliminated and the regular playoffs begin, now with all teams seeded. Unfortunately, OOTP then continues to try to schedule a random regular season game between NY and a non-playoff contending team. The standings, however are all listed with proper denotation, "x" for division winner and "z" for the wildcard. Not sure why...I can't get the playoffs to start though.

Any thoughts? Should I schedule all the tie-breaker games upfront, or to play on the same day? Seems like the "Playoffs Begin" doesn't have enough days to add additional regular season games.

Thanks for your help, in advance.

BKL · 02-10-2014, 12:09 AM

Ok, this might make it easier to see....

The season is over. All teams are properly seeded. I had to scheduled two tie-breakers. For some reason, OOTP wants to schedule a game between NY and LA, even though both are out of the playoffs. Only reason I can think of is that they have the same number of losses...this doesn't make sense.

I have multiple backups, so I could go back if needed to schedule the tie-breakers differently.

I can't advance to playoffs unless I play out that unnecessary game, which then causes the seeding to be wrong if NY wins.

Suggestions??

BKL · 02-10-2014, 12:29 AM

OK, I've tried multiple "runs" by restoring and trying over and the same issues happens - if NY losses the wild-card tie-breaker, thereby eliminating it from the playoffs, for some reason OOTP wants to schedule another game against LA.

I play my games out, so after 80 games, I don't want to have this messed up where teams are getting in or playing extra games that shouldn't.

Any help/thoughts?

hefalumps · 02-10-2014, 07:44 AM

I had something like this happen before but couldn't figure a way out of it either - I had to let OOTP play the meaningless game before the postseason started.

Can you post your full standings? I'm assuming the problem has to do with the half game separation - OOTP sees that and needs to "even" it.

Paging LGO...

BKL · 02-10-2014, 09:06 AM

Here's the final standings. 1 division winner for each division and 1 wildcard. Team with best record in league gets bye. Logical conclusion is to have the two teams tied for division play. Loser then plays NY for wildcard winner. This is what I do and for some reason OOTP forces an additional game between NY and LA, even though LA is clearly out of the mix.

PS - this only seems to happen if NY losses the wildcard tie-breaker.

After playing out all these games, I hope to not have a meaningless regular season game....just would add unnecessary stats, etc. and more confusion.

Le Grande Orange · 02-10-2014, 03:58 PM

The issue here is that OOTP usually cannot handle simultaneous ties for multiple playoff spots. You have two teams tied for a division title while simultaneously being tied with another club for the wild card berth. This sort of thing causes OOTP to get... confused.

BKL · 02-10-2014, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

The issue here is that OOTP usually cannot handle simultaneous ties for multiple playoff spots. You have two teams tied for a division title while simultaneously being tied with another club for the wild card berth. This sort of thing causes OOTP to get... confused.

So is there any solution or work around??

By the way, if this is an issue, seem like is should be a priority to fix. You simulate or play out an entire season only to see the results get messed up in the event of a tie?? Seems crazy.

hefalumps · 02-10-2014, 08:34 PM

I eventually just let OOTP play the game it wanted to play and made up a reason why it was necessary. You could always back up your game, let the game play out, and force the New York team to lose. Not ideal, but not sure what else to suggest.

Markus knows there are still some quirks with seeding and tiebreaking, and he's supposed to be looking into ironing some of those out in OOTP15. Fingers crossed.

BKL · 02-10-2014, 08:38 PM

I did some more analysis, and it seems that the issue arrives when NY ends up having the same number of losses as LA...for some reason OOTP wants to schedule a tie-breaker with LA, even if NY has more wins.

Well, this is fixed since it seems like a downer if you get this far in a season only to have it ruined by poor tie breakers, allowing a team to get in that shouldn't.

There should be a way to manually customize your tie-breakers, or just tell OOTP when the season has ended and you go in and "name" the seeding. This could be similar to the All Star Selection, where you can select your own or let the computer decide. Once you hit "Finish" it's official, the season ends and the playoffs begin. Seems like it would be an easy fix for everyone.

Le Grande Orange · 02-11-2014, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BKL

So is there any solution or work around??

I think when you get close to the end of the season and you see a potential tie situation which may 'break' OOTP, it's best to pre-schedule tie-breaking games in the schedule editor before the final originally scheduled games of the regular season are played. That way you know the right tie-breaking games will be played. If it turns out you don't need the games you can delete them from the schedule.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BKL

By the way, if this is an issue, seem like is should be a priority to fix. You simulate or play out an entire season only to see the results get messed up in the event of a tie?? Seems crazy.

I've been banging the drum on tie-breaking for the last two versions. No joy. Maybe this year...

02-09-2014, 10:33 PM	#1
BKL All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 921	End of Season Playoff Issue Hello - I have a game where there are two leagues, with two divisions in each league. The playoff format is such that there is a division winner for each division and one wildcard per league. The team with the best record in each league gets a bye. The other division winner and wildcard plays a series. Here's the problem. I have three teams tied (two in one division and one in a second division - my team). The two tied teams in the same division are Minnesota and Kansas City. The other team tied in the second division is New York, each with a 50-30 record (we play 80 game season). The two teams in the same division will need to play a tiebreaker to determine the division winner. The loser will then need to play the third tied team to determine the wildcard winner. OOTP will schedule the division tiebreaker, in this case between Minnesota and KC. KC losses and then OOTP wants to make NY the automatic wild card winner. Since this doesn't make sense, I go ahead and schedule another regular season game between NY and KC, figuring the winner would then be the wildcard winner. NY loses, therefore should be eliminated and the regular playoffs begin, now with all teams seeded. Unfortunately, OOTP then continues to try to schedule a random regular season game between NY and a non-playoff contending team. The standings, however are all listed with proper denotation, "x" for division winner and "z" for the wildcard. Not sure why...I can't get the playoffs to start though. Any thoughts? Should I schedule all the tie-breaker games upfront, or to play on the same day? Seems like the "Playoffs Begin" doesn't have enough days to add additional regular season games. Thanks for your help, in advance. Last edited by BKL; 02-09-2014 at 10:39 PM.

02-10-2014, 12:09 AM	#2
BKL All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 921	Update Ok, this might make it easier to see.... The season is over. All teams are properly seeded. I had to scheduled two tie-breakers. For some reason, OOTP wants to schedule a game between NY and LA, even though both are out of the playoffs. Only reason I can think of is that they have the same number of losses...this doesn't make sense. I have multiple backups, so I could go back if needed to schedule the tie-breakers differently. I can't advance to playoffs unless I play out that unnecessary game, which then causes the seeding to be wrong if NY wins. Suggestions?? Attached Images

02-10-2014, 09:06 AM	#5
BKL All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 921	Here's the final standings. 1 division winner for each division and 1 wildcard. Team with best record in league gets bye. Logical conclusion is to have the two teams tied for division play. Loser then plays NY for wildcard winner. This is what I do and for some reason OOTP forces an additional game between NY and LA, even though LA is clearly out of the mix. PS - this only seems to happen if NY losses the wildcard tie-breaker. After playing out all these games, I hope to not have a meaningless regular season game....just would add unnecessary stats, etc. and more confusion. Attached Images

02-10-2014, 08:38 PM	#9
BKL All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 921	I did some more analysis, and it seems that the issue arrives when NY ends up having the same number of losses as LA...for some reason OOTP wants to schedule a tie-breaker with LA, even if NY has more wins. Well, this is fixed since it seems like a downer if you get this far in a season only to have it ruined by poor tie breakers, allowing a team to get in that shouldn't. There should be a way to manually customize your tie-breakers, or just tell OOTP when the season has ended and you go in and "name" the seeding. This could be similar to the All Star Selection, where you can select your own or let the computer decide. Once you hit "Finish" it's official, the season ends and the playoffs begin. Seems like it would be an easy fix for everyone. Last edited by BKL; 02-10-2014 at 10:23 PM.

02-10-2014, 12:29 AM	#3
BKL All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 921	OK, I've tried multiple "runs" by restoring and trying over and the same issues happens - if NY losses the wild-card tie-breaker, thereby eliminating it from the playoffs, for some reason OOTP wants to schedule another game against LA. I play my games out, so after 80 games, I don't want to have this messed up where teams are getting in or playing extra games that shouldn't. Any help/thoughts?

02-10-2014, 07:44 AM	#4
hefalumps All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,357	I had something like this happen before but couldn't figure a way out of it either - I had to let OOTP play the meaningless game before the postseason started. Can you post your full standings? I'm assuming the problem has to do with the half game separation - OOTP sees that and needs to "even" it. Paging LGO...

02-10-2014, 03:58 PM	#6
Le Grande Orange Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Up There Posts: 15,413	The issue here is that OOTP usually cannot handle simultaneous ties for multiple playoff spots. You have two teams tied for a division title while simultaneously being tied with another club for the wild card berth. This sort of thing causes OOTP to get... confused.

02-10-2014, 08:34 PM	#8
hefalumps All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,357	I eventually just let OOTP play the game it wanted to play and made up a reason why it was necessary. You could always back up your game, let the game play out, and force the New York team to lose. Not ideal, but not sure what else to suggest. Markus knows there are still some quirks with seeding and tiebreaking, and he's supposed to be looking into ironing some of those out in OOTP15. Fingers crossed.