19th Century Teams, Leagues and Franchises

[BaseballMan]

The correct teams are showing up but automatic expansion results in an active team being made inactive and a 2nd one imported as expansion team.
As a test i was able to create a league in 1871. Removed the teams and deleted all players. Then imported the historical teams. This wasn't working before but it is now.
I turned off automatic expansion. I then removed the folding teams and their players. This made the folding teams inactive in league history which is correct. I also released players from active teams that signed with a different team for the start of the next year.
I then imported the expansion teams and deleted duplicate players.

Gonna try to run a test league from 1871-1900.

[Spritze]

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

Thanks for all your hard work

So it isn't a big risk to bet we will finally have real 19th century baseball in OOTP 19 next year? Big Risk

BTW Spritze do you know why the Federal League start in 1915 in OOTP 18 and not 1914 like it did in real life? Starts in 1914 for me

Hope that maybe we will get the minor leagues added for all the missing seasons (1877-1914) next year...

The real schedules are all available for 1871 to 1900 for the National Association, National League, American Association, Union Association and the Player League somewhere here somewhere in the mod area since I got them years ago...

I believe the schedule format has changed?

[Spritze]

Originally Posted by Erosa

First off, thank you Spritze!

OK, just to confirm- we still need to contract/delete teams ourselves? No ato-contraction and expansion worked for me but you do need to release the players of the contracted teams to free agency

I did a couple of tests. I started in 1892 with automatic expansion off. All is fine from 1892 to 1899- in '92 all teams have correct
rosters and all rookies import to correct teams every season.

When I get to 1899 offseason- if I have auto expansion off- nothing changes- you go to 1900 and we need to manually get rid of Louisville, Washington etc.

If I have auto expansion on at anytime, be it 1893, 94 etc. the teams that didn't exist such as Boston Americans, Philadelphia Athletics etc, pop up during the offseason.

Auto-expansion is expected to be on, if you turn it off then you need to do things by hand

[Spritze]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

The correct teams are showing up but automatic expansion results in an active team being made inactive and a 2nd one imported as expansion team.
As a test i was able to create a league in 1871. Removed the teams and deleted all players. Then imported the historical teams. This wasn't working before but it is now.
I turned off automatic expansion. I then removed the folding teams and their players. This made the folding teams inactive in league history which is correct. I also released players from active teams that signed with a different team for the start of the next year.
I then imported the expansion teams and deleted duplicate players.

Gonna try to run a test league from 1871-1900.

You lost me on all this by hand stuff. The file is meant to be used semi-automatically.

[BaseballMan]

Originally Posted by Spritze

You lost me on all this by hand stuff. The file is meant to be used semi-automatically.

The teams are importing correctly when you set up a league but the correct teams dont show up in expansion unless you edit the teams file.
They imported correctly for 1871, 1872 and 1873.
Example
Middletown Mansfields show up when you create a league in 1872 but not when you expand from 1871 to 1872. Same with the 1873 Elizabeth resolutes.
It seems to go back to the fictional/historical hybrid. Manual expansion doesn't work because it folds teams that should not be inactive.
It seems the teams import correctly when setting up a league but something in how it is handling expansion is messed up.

[Spritze]

The leagues are already set up. If you choose to change them or delete them or to delete teams as in your previous post you have destroyed the structure and everything from then on is by your hand. Without mucking about with the file expansion and contraction works just peachy.

To reiterate once you mess with the new default structure you will need to do everything by hand. The teams file should not be edited nor even exist AFAIK. If you want to do that sort of thing OOTP16 is for you. This file is meant to be used whole and with OOTP18.

[AESP_pres]

Originally Posted by Spritze

I believe the schedule format has changed?

Realized they wouldn't work anyway since you use a two leagues format, but they always work if you use the right league structure.

[AESP_pres]

Originally Posted by Spritze

To reiterate once you mess with the new default structure you will need to do everything by hand.

Yep, this is what I realized with my first test yesterday when I moved all the teams in the same league in 1871

[AESP_pres]

Originally Posted by Spritze

Starts in 1914 for me

I took it as a given that it wouldn't start before since the game say the minor league mode works only from 1915... So if I start in 1914 the Federal League will be here even if the text say 1915+?

Just start one in 1914 to check and indeed the league is here... guess the game should update the text since it says the mode start in 1915

[BaseballMan]

Originally Posted by Spritze

The leagues are already set up. If you choose to change them or delete them or to delete teams as in your previous post you have destroyed the structure and everything from then on is by your hand. Without mucking about with the file expansion and contraction works just peachy.

To reiterate once you mess with the new default structure you will need to do everything by hand. The teams file should not be edited nor even exist AFAIK. If you want to do that sort of thing OOTP16 is for you. This file is meant to be used whole and with OOTP18.

What i am saying is that historical expansion is not correct. The league creation imports the correct teams but not expansion.
Here are 3 pics to show what i'm talking about. I reinstalled the game and did not change the teams file for one test and then i did for the 2nd. Notice the game setup the league in 1871 with the correct teams. But with the unedited teams file it does not have Middletown Mansfields for 1872. With the edited teams file it has Middletown but folded every team from 1871.

[swampdragon]

Which step was a mistake?

1. I renamed the new file to Spritze historical database.odb
2. I extracted the file into the OOTP stats folder with the other odb files.
3. I started the game and pointed to the Spritze file as the database to use.
4. I still got the same eight teams. No ninth team.

[BaseballMan]

Originally Posted by swampdragon

Which step was a mistake?

1. I renamed the new file to Spritze historical database.odb
2. I extracted the file into the OOTP stats folder with the other odb files.
3. I started the game and pointed to the Spritze file as the database to use.
4. I still got the same eight teams. No ninth team.

I just copied and pasted the new historical database.odb to the stats folder and it gave me the real 9 historical teams. This was with and without editing the teams csv.
For me the import when creating a league works great. Its the expansion that doesn't work for me.
Its just weird that the game will import the teams correctly but it wont handle expansion correctly.
For now i had to turn off expansion and import the teams and then delete duplicate players.

[Spritze]

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

I took it as a given that it wouldn't start before since the game say the minor league mode works only from 1915... So if I start in 1914 the Federal League will be here even if the text say 1915+? yes

Just start one in 1914 to check and indeed the league is here... guess the game should update the text since it says the mode start in 1915

It was pointed out many times in Beta but is a low priority and so never got fixed

[Spritze]

Originally Posted by swampdragon

Which step was a mistake?

1. I renamed the new file to Spritze historical database.odb
2. I extracted the file into the OOTP stats folder with the other odb files.
3. I started the game and pointed to the Spritze file as the database to use.
4. I still got the same eight teams. No ninth team.

It completely replaces the historical database file. You cannot have 2 and Spritze should not be in the name. Steps 1 and 3 are incorrect which results in step 4.

[Spritze]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

I just copied and pasted the new historical database.odb to the stats folder and it gave me the real 9 historical teams. This was with and without editing the teams csv.
For me the import when creating a league works great. Its the expansion that doesn't work for me.
Its just weird that the game will import the teams correctly but it wont handle expansion correctly.
For now i had to turn off expansion and import the teams and then delete duplicate players.

expansion and contraction work for me 1872-1900. You must be using a setting I don't?
In 1872 Middletown is in the NL In 1873 they move to Baltimore and become the Marylands, eventually they become part of the Chicago Cubs franchise history. This is all laid out in the file attached to the Openng post.

[BaseballMan]

Originally Posted by Spritze

expansion and contraction work for me 1872-1900. You must be using a setting I don't?
In 1872 Middletown is in the NL In 1873 they move to Baltimore and become the Marylands, eventually they become part of the Chicago Cubs franchise history. This is all laid out in the file attached to the Openng post.

That was it. I was using the teams csv that comes with the game and an edited one. I never saw the one at the top of the thread even though i downloaded the 19th century database file.
I guess every team must be linked to a current team? Since neither Middletown nor the Marylands were part of the Cubs real timeline.
I take it that this is to make it expansion easier.

[Spritze]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

That was it. I was using the teams csv that comes with the game and an edited one. I never saw the one at the top of the thread even though i downloaded the 19th century database file.
I guess every team must be linked to a current team? Since neither Middletown nor the Marylands were part of the Cubs real timeline.
I take it that this is to make it expansion easier.

No that is not why. Please reread the opening posts for the answers to that and many more questions.

[BaseballMan]

Well it probably will make it easier and maintain a little bit of the environment of 19th century baseball.
Plus others like me that prefer the teams coming, going and folding can expand manually and import the actual teams fo years 1871-1900. Wasn't working before the 19th century database file you made. So that helps a ton.

[Spritze]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

Well it probably will make it easier and maintain a little bit of the environment of 19th century baseball.
Plus others like me that prefer the teams coming, going and folding can expand manually and import the actual teams fo years 1871-1900. Wasn't working before the 19th century database file you made. So that helps a ton.

In order for 19th century play to get finished/fixed we need way more than the 15 players that currently play it. Most gamers start with 1901 because the early years make no sense the way they are now. When the minors were added in OOTP17 all the issues that plague 19th century play were fixed but there are not currently enough interested players to create a groundswell of support. I should admit here that I am one of the gamers that used to play 19th century and now start in 1901. I don't know if this very small update will help as very few gamers have downloaded it. I hope it gets some traction so the remaining issues get fixed.

Besides schedules getting an update it would be great if someone could post this on the mods site with instructions for use.

Thanks

[BaseballMan]

Originally Posted by Spritze

In order for 19th century play to get finished/fixed we need way more than the 15 players that currently play it. Most gamers start with 1901 because the early years make no sense the way they are now. When the minors were added in OOTP17 all the issues that plague 19th century play were fixed but there are not currently enough interested players to create a groundswell of support. I should admit here that I am one of the gamers that used to play 19th century and now start in 1901. I don't know if this very small update will help as very few gamers have downloaded it. I hope it gets some traction so the remaining issues get fixed.

Besides schedules getting an update it would be great if someone could post this on the mods site with instructions for use.

Thanks

Its getting there. One step at a time.