Developer Update Thread (last update: 11/14/2013)

[AlpineSK]

Customer service 101...

Originally Posted by Duranium

hmmm...i hate to admit it but you´re right

[yzerwing]

Originally Posted by AlpineSK

What do you see as the positive features?? I'm all ears.

-Ability to edit players names and ratings, team names, salary cap etc.
-Scoring may be off, but still more accurate then EHM ever was.
-Many teams and leagues to choose from.

From a sim standpoint, what is different from EHM 2007? That there is no red dot moving around the screen? When you go from one day to the next it sims the scores just like EHM did, with way more realistic scoring I might add.

Sure the timing of certain events need work, but certainly doesn't make the game unplayable.

[AlpineSK]

I never said THAT made it unplayable.. But a lot of other features made it so for me.. Plus there's the hockey disconnect that's been pointed out.. calling Ties Draws.. the length of time it took to actually get the Shutout bug fixed that existed from the introduction of BETA.. The lack of story lines.. the lack of names or the simple ability to name trophies..

Editing abilities are great, however if the AI does not handle the edited or unedited players properly or value them the right way in trades, for free agency etc. then you might as well just edit your Windows background and stare at that.. At least it won't cost you $40.

Originally Posted by yzerwing

-Ability to edit players names and ratings, team names, salary cap etc.
-Scoring may be off, but still more accurate then EHM ever was.
-Many teams and leagues to choose from.

From a sim standpoint, what is different from EHM 2007? That there is no red dot moving around the screen? When you go from one day to the next it sims the scores just like EHM did, with way more realistic scoring I might add.

Sure the timing of certain events need work, but certainly doesn't make the game unplayable.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by AlpineSK

Editing abilities are great, however if the AI does not handle the edited or unedited players properly or value them the right way in trades, for free agency etc. then you might as well just edit your Windows background and stare at that.. At least it won't cost you $40.

Those are things that FHM never really got right in its three versions. The trade and roster ai even in EHM 07 was still quite bad.

It took both CM/FM and OOTP years to get their roster ai working really well.

Major games like EA's NHL Series have never gotten the trade and roster ai to progress past putrid.

So how can you expect FHM to magically have perfect roster and trade ai four months and three patches into its first version?

That's a textbook example of what I meant when I talked about some players out-sized expectations of immediate perfection.

To expect that is neither realistic nor even reasonable. If FHM had gotten that stuff right immediately it would have been the first game EVER to do so that quickly.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Mordrehl

Everyone can take whatever side they want about the state and future of this game. You can call it a pile of dog poo or label it a valiant first attempt with massive potential. Neither addresses two fundamental problems :

a) The game has many bugs, many problems (salaries, trading, crashes)
b) The almost complete lack of communication from the developers.

if B was much better, then A would be more bearable. If A were better then B would be more bearable.

I have to agree with you on this. The official communication was very good for a long time but it has fallen off to less than a trickle lately. That is rather frustrating.

[tran]

Originally Posted by yzerwing

-Ability to edit players names and ratings, team names, salary cap etc.
-Scoring may be off, but still more accurate then EHM ever was.
-Many teams and leagues to choose from.

From a sim standpoint, what is different from EHM 2007? That there is no red dot moving around the screen? When you go from one day to the next it sims the scores just like EHM did, with way more realistic scoring I might add.

Sure the timing of certain events need work, but certainly doesn't make the game unplayable.

I found EHM 07 a step back from EHM 05 in many ways, and wasn't surprised when it failed.
But EHMN 07 still had a better interface. It was easy to immerse yourself into EHM world and just click through the hockey universe.

The beauty of NHL EHM was the way you could fly around from screen to screen in a way that was pretty intuitive.

The draft...is a HUGE deal in a GM sim. You've got your top 200 organized. You can go to your scouting screen to see which ones have 4 or 5 stars. You can make comments on players that turn up when you're in the draft screen with another click. You can sort in so many USERFRIENDLY ways.

I can't say what I like about FHM yet. It takes a couple 5-10-15 year sims to understand the strengths of a game.
My historical sim won't let me start year 5 or 6. It keeps crashing on Sept 23.

And I'm done one year in my modern sim. So slow and not really enough fun to get into it because so little resembles reality

[pens66]

Originally Posted by yzerwing

-Ability to edit players names and ratings, team names, salary cap etc.
-Scoring may be off, but still more accurate then EHM ever was.
-Many teams and leagues to choose from.

You're correct on scoring, but the other two are nothing new at all. You could edit a lot in EHM (with 3rd party programs, but still) and there were just as many leagues to choose from.

What I do like for example are the additional options (compared to EHM) when you set your lines. However, A) setting everything up is a pain and B) if lines are incomplete before game start, you can't advance, and if somebody's injured during the game, his line won't be used anymore.

I also like the big financials screen, which however doesn't always tell the truth it seems.

I also like the wealth of stats, which however are, in parts, many clicks away and are, in parts, unsortable.


You see a pattern here?

Potential is nice, but execution is much more important.

[Penfold75]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Those are things that FHM never really got right in its three versions. The trade and roster ai even in EHM 07 was still quite bad.

It took both CM/FM and OOTP years to get their roster ai working really well.

Major games like EA's NHL Series have never gotten the trade and roster ai to progress past putrid.

So how can you expect FHM to magically have perfect roster and trade ai four months and three patches into its first version?

That's a textbook example of what I meant when I talked about some players out-sized expectations of immediate perfection.

To expect that is neither realistic nor even reasonable. If FHM had gotten that stuff right immediately it would have been the first game EVER to do so that quickly.

Because it isn't just 'four months and three patches into its first version?'

The game was first announced in 2012. It was supposed to come out in First Quarter 2013. There has been 5/6 months of a beta testing period before release. Then the three patches that haven't fixed basic flaws.

I'm not expecting perfect but something better than what we have got so far.

Thanks to the editors that were available the pre-game and saved game one you could edit player ratings etc in EHM2007. The scoring was flawed but I was able to live with it and they actually did have a number of leagues you could choose to play so I'm afraid Yzerwing your positives about FHM don't stack up for me.EHM2007 wasn't perfect but it was better than this is.

[Sebastian Palkowski]

Happy new year everyone!

Since the last maintenance patch (to be correct: even 4 weeks earlier) we work on a patch that has the internal code-name "fun-patch". Using the forum (and our own opinion) as feedback we identified the 3-4 areas of the game that needed an upgrade to make them (and the game) more fun to play. 2 areas are already in testing and need some more tweaking to get it right and 1 (big) area needs some more coding before it is ready for testing. Another area already has a few changes to it but still needs some work before it is finished.

Once we have everything in testing we will give you more details about the changes.

So to make it a bit clearer: the next patch will have bug-fixes (as always) but also 3-4 completely redesigned areas to make the game more fun to play.

[Sebastian Palkowski]

Originally Posted by Penfold75

Because it isn't just 'four months and three patches into its first version?'

The game was first announced in 2012. It was supposed to come out in First Quarter 2013. There has been 5/6 months of a beta testing period before release. Then the three patches that haven't fixed basic flaws.

I'm not expecting perfect but something better than what we have got so far.

Thanks to the editors that were available the pre-game and saved game one you could edit player ratings etc in EHM2007. The scoring was flawed but I was able to live with it and they actually did have a number of leagues you could choose to play so I'm afraid Yzerwing your positives about FHM don't stack up for me.EHM2007 wasn't perfect but it was better than this is.

I fully respect your opinion. And the solution is pretty simple: just play EHM 2007, it is a great game. Then you can play a game and have fun instead of posting here and have no fun.

[bob]

sebastian can i ask you a question . the satff member coach or scout . if they are better they really change something on the game actually ?

exemple coach the players gonna be better ? or improve developpement more then when they have been draft ?

scout take less time to did the job and good rates on the players on the draft ?

[Sebastian Palkowski]

Originally Posted by bob

sebastian can i ask you a question . the satff member coach or scout . if they are better they really change something on the game actually ?

exemple coach the players gonna be better ? or improve developpement more then when they have been draft ?

scout take less time to did the job and good rates on the players on the draft ?

Of course they have effects on development/scouting. Maybe not enough.

Hell, just one post later I tell you more (damn you ): development (including training) and scouting are both areas we rethought.

[bob]

Originally Posted by Sebastian Palkowski

Of course they have effects on development/scouting. Maybe not enough.

Hell, just one post later I tell you more (damn you ): development (including training) and scouting are both areas we rethought.

Good , good

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Penfold75

Because it isn't just 'four months and three patches into its first version?'

The game was first announced in 2012. It was supposed to come out in First Quarter 2013. There has been 5/6 months of a beta testing period before release. Then the three patches that haven't fixed basic flaws.

I'm not expecting perfect but something better than what we have got so far.

...EHM2007 wasn't perfect but it was better than this is.

I'm just talking about the amount of time that it's been released to the public for. Sure there's been more development time but that time is spent more on building the foundations of a game than on tweaking the kind of issues we've been talking about. The beta testing period being public is simply a part of the small team/low budget situation. Most games would have a private beta testing period you wouldn't even know was happening.

FHM had to try something different so they had a public beta. Whether you think that was a good plan or not, it certainly doesn't count a period where the game was released. FHM has only been released for four months now. My point is that even a good game like EHM had been released to the public for three years and still had some major issues similar to those that are in FHM now. Other games in this genre like the Grey Dog basketball games, World Basketball Manger, some of the American football games, have been out for 5-6 years and are still far worse than FHM is now imo.

Overall though, of course EHM is better than FHM is now, it had four-five years of development and three versions to get there as opposed to 1 year+ and one version.

Even after all that time EHM still had a fairly large number of "basic flaws" that were never fixed. As I've been saying, that's been true for nearly every other game in this genre as well. Games like CM/FM and OOTP finally reached the point where most basic flaws have been fixed, but they only did so after multiple years and multiple versions. Many other games have never gotten there.

To have a minimum expectation of a newly released game which is in its first version, (regardless of precisely how long it's been out) to be better than games that have had years of development and multiple version behind them is simply unfair and can only lead to disappointment and to unmet expectations.

Anyhow you all know my views now. They aren't necessarily any more valid than any of yours but I did feel that some of what I've said needed to be said. At this point I don't know that these conversations are likely to accomplish much good, so I'm going to bow out and let everyone else get on with whatever it is that they're doing

[omjo]

Originally Posted by Sebastian Palkowski

Happy new year everyone!

Since the last maintenance patch (to be correct: even 4 weeks earlier) we work on a patch that has the internal code-name "fun-patch". Using the forum (and our own opinion) as feedback we identified the 3-4 areas of the game that needed an upgrade to make them (and the game) more fun to play. 2 areas are already in testing and need some more tweaking to get it right and 1 (big) area needs some more coding before it is ready for testing. Another area already has a few changes to it but still needs some work before it is finished.

Once we have everything in testing we will give you more details about the changes.

So to make it a bit clearer: the next patch will have bug-fixes (as always) but also 3-4 completely redesigned areas to make the game more fun to play.

Definitely looking forward to the update, as I keep getting snubbed by English teams not re-signing me after winning championships for them every year

lol

[glb2687]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

I'm just talking about the amount of time that it's been released to the public for. Sure there's been more development time but that time is spent more on building the foundations of a game than on tweaking the kind of issues we've been talking about. The beta testing period being public is simply a part of the small team/low budget situation. Most games would have a private beta testing period you wouldn't even know was happening.

FHM had to try something different so they had a public beta. Whether you think that was a good plan or not, it certainly doesn't count a period where the game was released. FHM has only been released for four months now. My point is that even a good game like EHM had been released to the public for three years and still had some major issues similar to those that are in FHM now. Other games in this genre like the Grey Dog basketball games, World Basketball Manger, some of the American football games, have been out for 5-6 years and are still far worse than FHM is now imo.

Overall though, of course EHM is better than FHM is now, it had four-five years of development and three versions to get there as opposed to 1 year+ and one version.

Even after all that time EHM still had a fairly large number of "basic flaws" that were never fixed. As I've been saying, that's been true for nearly every other game in this genre as well. Games like CM/FM and OOTP finally reached the point where most basic flaws have been fixed, but they only did so after multiple years and multiple versions. Many other games have never gotten there.

To have a minimum expectation of a newly released game which is in its first version, (regardless of precisely how long it's been out) to be better than games that have had years of development and multiple version behind them is simply unfair and can only lead to disappointment and to unmet expectations.

Anyhow you all know my views now. They aren't necessarily any more valid than any of yours but I did feel that some of what I've said needed to be said. At this point I don't know that these conversations are likely to accomplish much good, so I'm going to bow out and let everyone else get on with whatever it is that they're doing

Amen! Very well stated

[Penfold75]

Originally Posted by Sebastian Palkowski

I fully respect your opinion. And the solution is pretty simple: just play EHM 2007, it is a great game. Then you can play a game and have fun instead of posting here and have no fun.

Well lets see I paid money for a game to have fun. I paid money for this game in good faith. What I got was a game that was released full of bugs, clearly under tested and doesn't deliver the most basic options and functions of the type of game it is i.e. a Hockey Management game. This game is still bug laden and not working how it should after three patches.

Maybe you should get back to work on fixing the sub standard game you produced instead of making what you obviously think is a smart comment.

[traveler99]

Originally Posted by Sebastian Palkowski

Happy new year everyone!

Since the last maintenance patch (to be correct: even 4 weeks earlier) we work on a patch that has the internal code-name "fun-patch". Using the forum (and our own opinion) as feedback we identified the 3-4 areas of the game that needed an upgrade to make them (and the game) more fun to play. 2 areas are already in testing and need some more tweaking to get it right and 1 (big) area needs some more coding before it is ready for testing. Another area already has a few changes to it but still needs some work before it is finished.

Once we have everything in testing we will give you more details about the changes.

So to make it a bit clearer: the next patch will have bug-fixes (as always) but also 3-4 completely redesigned areas to make the game more fun to play.

Still after all this time, we get this bullcrap in circles...how about you name something WHAT you are working on...we have heard the story from Brad and Jeff many times before already that you are working on. Is not that hard to keep up to date your customers right?

[Thundercrack]

"fun-patch" will make the game more fun to play! somebody blow a kazoo

[speels]

Hahahaha!!! I came into this thread for an update and the only thing I really found is that my ignore list tripled.