Handling Rehab Assingments

sreem · 08-21-2013, 09:00 AM

I was just wondering how everyone else handles rehab assignments, and does it really matter?

I generally only send players for rehab assignments if they've had an injury that keeps them out 3 weeks or longer.

But I have noticed that I've brought players back immediately from the 60-Day DL after a major injury and they have performed fine.

Just wondering what everyone else does and if you've noticed the same thing?

rpriske · 08-21-2013, 09:47 AM

I don't think they have any effect whatsoever.

The only time I EVER use rehab assignments is if I am activated a guy off the 60, don't have a spot on the 40-man, and want to stall about making the decision.

Cinnamon J. Scudworth · 08-21-2013, 10:06 AM

Rehab assignments remove rust. If I remember correctly, injured players start developing rust if they're out for longer than ~2 weeks. Like the OP, I tend to only use rehab assignments if the player had an injury that kept them out 3 weeks or longer (or, like the previous poster, I'm trying to stall). Depending on how long the player has been out, for position players I keep them in their rehab assignment for anywhere from a couple of days to a week, and for pitchers anywhere from 1 to 3 starts.

hefalumps · 08-21-2013, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpriske

I don't think they have any effect whatsoever.

The only time I EVER use rehab assignments is if I am activated a guy off the 60, don't have a spot on the 40-man, and want to stall about making the decision.

This. Usually, if the player is a stud and I need him back ASAP, I don't bother with rehab. If I'm getting along without him, I'll send him on rehab for a week or so. If he's not that great and I have other players I'd rather roster, I do what rpriske does and keep him on there as long as I can until I have to make a roster decision.

D-BacksJosh · 08-21-2013, 10:37 AM

I use rehab assignments for realism. If a player just got off the 60 day DL he isn't going to be playing immediately for a major league club in real life.

PSUColonel · 08-21-2013, 12:30 PM

No....injured players develop rust. If you are denying this, you are essentially saying: "Markus you sold us a fake bill of goods". You're saying he just added rehab assignments as a "surface only" feature that has zero depth so he could say he added another feature. If this is true, are there other features like this? I would hope every feature contains "substance under the hood".

hefalumps · 08-21-2013, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

No....injured players develop rust. If you are denying this, you are essentially saying: "Markus you sold us a fake bill of goods". You're saying he just added rehab assignments as a "surface only" feature that has zero depth so he could say he added another feature. If this is true, are there other features like this? I would hope every feature contains "substance under the hood".

I do believe I read somewhere that injured players can get rusty (like spring training) and rehab assignments help with that. But even if they don't, rehab assignments give me another tool to help manage my rosters and maximize roster spots. So I'd say it's a worthy feature add regardless.

And if my future hall-of-fame centerfielder is ready to return from injury in the middle of an August pennant race, and his replacement is hitting under .200, and I'm going head-to-head against my division rival in a four-game series, you better believe I'm bringing him straight back to the majors with no rehab assignment - rust or no rust.

Nunyer · 08-21-2013, 12:57 PM

Injured players can develop rust... they could very well develop a metric crapload of it... That said, your rusty superstar could still add more value to your big league roster than whatever call up you brought in from Triple A is currently accomplishing. So while rehab assignments could server a purpose, it doesn't mean it's always a necessary purpose.

Also, OOTP doesn't quite handle this properly anyways. In MLB, a player on the DL can be sent to the minors for rehab at any time during his DL stint. In OOTP, the player must be both healed and done with his 15 or 60 days. So if your player has a 12 day injury sitting on the 15 day DL, he should have those three days available at the end to play for triple A, but he doesn't and you are forced to lose him for a few more unnecessary days if you want a rehab...

But usually, the difference between returning player + rust versus regular triple A call-up is still not enough to bother with rehab assignments.

hefalumps · 08-21-2013, 01:03 PM

And as LGO always points out, in real life, the player is still on the ML disabled list while they are on rehab assignment. In OOTP, they're in some special hybrid state where they're in AAA but not using an option - unless they get hurt again and the minor league manager gets a hold of him! Then all bets are off.

It would be nice if, for OOTP15, the rehab assignments could get modeled more after real life, incorporating what both Nunyer and I pointed out.

Le Grande Orange · 08-21-2013, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hefalumps

It would be nice if, for OOTP15, the rehab assignments could get modeled more after real life, incorporating what both Nunyer and I pointed out.

As I recall there was some arcane technical reason in the code for it having to be handled the way it is in the game.

I'd note too that in real life major league players aren't just sent on rehab assignments to Triple-A affiliates; they can are and are sent to Double-A or lower. Depends, I think, on how long they've been inactive. Starting at a lower level allows the injured player an easier time adjusting to playing again.

hefalumps · 08-21-2013, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

As I recall there was some arcane technical reason in the code for it having to be handled the way it is in the game.

I'd note too that in real life major league players aren't just sent on rehab assignments to Triple-A affiliates; they can are and are sent to Double-A or lower. Depends, I think, on how long they've been inactive. Starting at a lower level allows the injured player an easier time adjusting to playing again.

I've also noticed that, at least with the Orioles, it depends on whether the minor league team is on the road. Since most of the O's minor league affiliates are fairly local, if AA Bowie and AAA Norfolk are on the road, they might send a player to High-A Frederick to start his rehab assignment, then bump them up to a higher level when they return home (or just bring them straight back to the majors).

RchW · 08-21-2013, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nunyer

Also, OOTP doesn't quite handle this properly anyways. In MLB, a player on the DL can be sent to the minors for rehab at any time during his DL stint. In OOTP, the player must be both healed and done with his 15 or 60 days. So if your player has a 12 day injury sitting on the 15 day DL, he should have those three days available at the end to play for triple A, but he doesn't and you are forced to lose him for a few more unnecessary days if you want a rehab...

But usually, the difference between returning player + rust versus regular triple A call-up is still not enough to bother with rehab assignments.

I think you're misinterpreting the real life DL rules. A player placed on the 15 day DL cannot play for 15 days period. Same with the 60 day DL. What you say above can't happen IRL. Note that most teams don't put players on the 60-day DL until they are sure they will be out that long. After the minimum time players may be sent on a rehab assignment if they are ready, but remain on the DL.

The only difference in OOTP is that players come off the DL. Seems like a minor issue in the big picture since the objective, getting rehab games, is accomplished.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hefalumps

And as LGO always points out, in real life, the player is still on the ML disabled list while they are on rehab assignment. In OOTP, they're in some special hybrid state where they're in AAA but not using an option - unless they get hurt again and the minor league manager gets a hold of him! Then all bets are off.

It would be nice if, for OOTP15, the rehab assignments could get modeled more after real life, incorporating what both Nunyer and I pointed out.

See answer above. Putting an additional injury (OOTP game problem) aside, what does OOTP do wrong other than have the player come off the DL? I suppose being limited to just AAA for rehab, but again that seems like small potatoes.

hefalumps · 08-21-2013, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

See answer above. Putting an additional injury (OOTP game problem) aside, what does OOTP do wrong other than have the player come off the DL? I suppose being limited to just AAA for rehab, but again that seems like small potatoes.

Agreed the lock to AAA is small potatoes, and having the player come off the DL when on rehab is also no biggie, but what isn't small potatoes is what might happen to the rehabbing player if he gets hurt again. I know Markus said he has patched this, but at least with the latest patch of 13 I recall seeing a rehabbing player get injured at AAA and suddenly be placed on the AAA disabled list - no longer on rehab. As a result, he was treated as a minor leaguer and burned an option. Not cool.

Nunyer · 08-21-2013, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

I think you're misinterpreting the real life DL rules. A player placed on the 15 day DL cannot play for 15 days period. Same with the 60 day DL. What you say above can't happen IRL.

Possible I am mistaken... and that the wikipedia page that I referenced to confirm before making my original post was wrong as well... but...

Quote:

Disabled list

If a major league player cannot play because of a medical condition, he may be placed on the 15-day disabled list (DL). This removes the player from the 25-man roster, freeing up a space, but he is ineligible to play for at least 15 consecutive days. Players on the 15-day disabled list are still a part of the 40-man roster. An injured player may also be placed on the 60-day disabled list to remove the player from the 40-man roster as well, with the condition of being ineligible to play for 60 consecutive days.

Players placed on the 15-day disabled list may be moved to the 60-day list at any time, but not vice versa. Players may be placed on either disabled list retroactively for a maximum of 10 inactive days and may remain on either list for as long as required to recover. During this 10-day period, a player's status is said to be day-to-day, indicating that the team is in the process of deciding whether the player must be placed on either DL or is healthy enough to return to active service. Injured players may not be traded without permission of the Commissioner nor may they be optioned to the minors, though they may be assigned to a minor league club for rehabilitation for a limited amount of time (30 days for pitchers, 20 for non-pitchers).
In 2011, a 7-day disabled list was added specifically for players who have suffered a concussion. This was instituted to allow players who may recover from their concussions quickly to be removed from the active roster and replaced for a shorter period of time than 15 days. A player who is still suffering from concussion symptoms at the 15-day mark is automatically transferred to the 15-day DL. Both the brain injury and the player's recovery need to be verified by team and league doctors; the list is not intended for non-concussion injuries.

Source:
Major League Baseball transactions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

RchW · 08-21-2013, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hefalumps

I know Markus said he has patched this, but at least with the latest patch of 13 I recall seeing a rehabbing player get injured at AAA and suddenly be placed on the AAA disabled list - no longer on rehab. As a result, he was treated as a minor leaguer and burned an option. Not cool.

I can't speak about v13 (I thought this was about v14). As for the option burning that is a pain. So far it hasn't happened to me.

RchW · 08-21-2013, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nunyer

Possible I am mistaken... and that the wikipedia page that I referenced to confirm before making my original post was wrong as well... but...

Source:
Major League Baseball transactions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No it's right. See the bold from the first paragraph.

Quote:

Disabled list

If a major league player cannot play because of a medical condition, he may be placed on the 15-day disabled list (DL). This removes the player from the 25-man roster, freeing up a space, but he is ineligible to play for at least 15 consecutive days. Players on the 15-day disabled list are still a part of the 40-man roster. An injured player may also be placed on the 60-day disabled list to remove the player from the 40-man roster as well, with the condition of being ineligible to play for 60 consecutive days.

PSUColonel · 08-21-2013, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hefalumps

Agreed the lock to AAA is small potatoes, and having the player come off the DL when on rehab is also no biggie, but what isn't small potatoes is what might happen to the rehabbing player if he gets hurt again. I know Markus said he has patched this, but at least with the latest patch of 13 I recall seeing a rehabbing player get injured at AAA and suddenly be placed on the AAA disabled list - no longer on rehab. As a result, he was treated as a minor leaguer and burned an option. Not cool.

Is this fixed? or not?

Nunyer · 08-21-2013, 04:04 PM

Not trying to be snarky here RchW, but you are simply incorrect. Alex Avila was placed on the 15 day DL by the Tigers on June 18th and recalled exactly 15 days later on July 2nd. He played minor league games during most of that stretch based on some light googling.

D-BacksJosh · 08-21-2013, 04:12 PM

In addition to this, maybe in the future the option to send players to a 'simulated game' could be added. There could be a report from your staff on the verdict of the simulated game and determine from there whether the player needs time in the minors or could be placed on the active roster immediately. This would provide an option to test players after an injury to avoid sending them to the minors to risk another injury.

Matt Arnold · 08-21-2013, 04:28 PM

I don't need too much micromanaging. I send a guy to rehab in one of the following:
-He was a AAA callup when he got hurt, and I don't need him anymore
-I need to delay his return by a day or 2 to manage another guy's injury status, or I want to wait a couple days to see if someone else gets hurt
-he was hurt for longer than 5-6 weeks (I can't be bothered to rehab a guy who was out a few weeks)

That's pretty much it. If I'm running away with things, and I don't need the guy, I'll often put him on the rehab assignment just to give others more playing time, but I definitely don't go overboard in making sure guys get playing time in the minors before bringing them back, unless if they missed significant time (2+ months)

08-21-2013, 09:00 AM	#1
sreem All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 673	Handling Rehab Assingments I was just wondering how everyone else handles rehab assignments, and does it really matter? I generally only send players for rehab assignments if they've had an injury that keeps them out 3 weeks or longer. But I have noticed that I've brought players back immediately from the 60-Day DL after a major injury and they have performed fine. Just wondering what everyone else does and if you've noticed the same thing? __________________ "What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. Except for bears....."

08-21-2013, 10:06 AM	#3
Cinnamon J. Scudworth All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 1,119	Rehab assignments remove rust. If I remember correctly, injured players start developing rust if they're out for longer than ~2 weeks. Like the OP, I tend to only use rehab assignments if the player had an injury that kept them out 3 weeks or longer (or, like the previous poster, I'm trying to stall). Depending on how long the player has been out, for position players I keep them in their rehab assignment for anywhere from a couple of days to a week, and for pitchers anywhere from 1 to 3 starts. __________________ "Sometimes, this is like going to a grocery store. You’ve got a list until you get to the check-out stand. And then you start reading People magazine, and all this other [stuff] ends up in the basket." -Sandy Alderson on the MLB offseason Last edited by Cinnamon J. Scudworth; 08-21-2013 at 10:08 AM.

08-21-2013, 09:47 AM	#2
rpriske Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Spencerville, ON, Canada Posts: 23,988 Blog Entries: 1	I don't think they have any effect whatsoever. The only time I EVER use rehab assignments is if I am activated a guy off the 60, don't have a spot on the 40-man, and want to stall about making the decision.

08-21-2013, 10:37 AM	#5
D-BacksJosh Banned Join Date: May 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 875	I use rehab assignments for realism. If a player just got off the 60 day DL he isn't going to be playing immediately for a major league club in real life.

08-21-2013, 12:30 PM	#6
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 12,990 Blog Entries: 37	No....injured players develop rust. If you are denying this, you are essentially saying: "Markus you sold us a fake bill of goods". You're saying he just added rehab assignments as a "surface only" feature that has zero depth so he could say he added another feature. If this is true, are there other features like this? I would hope every feature contains "substance under the hood".

08-21-2013, 12:57 PM	#8
Nunyer All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Baseball Ned Flanders stares into your soul... Posts: 594	Injured players can develop rust... they could very well develop a metric crapload of it... That said, your rusty superstar could still add more value to your big league roster than whatever call up you brought in from Triple A is currently accomplishing. So while rehab assignments could server a purpose, it doesn't mean it's always a necessary purpose. Also, OOTP doesn't quite handle this properly anyways. In MLB, a player on the DL can be sent to the minors for rehab at any time during his DL stint. In OOTP, the player must be both healed and done with his 15 or 60 days. So if your player has a 12 day injury sitting on the 15 day DL, he should have those three days available at the end to play for triple A, but he doesn't and you are forced to lose him for a few more unnecessary days if you want a rehab... But usually, the difference between returning player + rust versus regular triple A call-up is still not enough to bother with rehab assignments.

08-21-2013, 01:03 PM	#9
hefalumps All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,357	And as LGO always points out, in real life, the player is still on the ML disabled list while they are on rehab assignment. In OOTP, they're in some special hybrid state where they're in AAA but not using an option - unless they get hurt again and the minor league manager gets a hold of him! Then all bets are off. It would be nice if, for OOTP15, the rehab assignments could get modeled more after real life, incorporating what both Nunyer and I pointed out.

08-21-2013, 04:04 PM	#18
Nunyer All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Baseball Ned Flanders stares into your soul... Posts: 594	Not trying to be snarky here RchW, but you are simply incorrect. Alex Avila was placed on the 15 day DL by the Tigers on June 18th and recalled exactly 15 days later on July 2nd. He played minor league games during most of that stretch based on some light googling.

08-21-2013, 04:12 PM	#19
D-BacksJosh Banned Join Date: May 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 875	In addition to this, maybe in the future the option to send players to a 'simulated game' could be added. There could be a report from your staff on the verdict of the simulated game and determine from there whether the player needs time in the minors or could be placed on the active roster immediately. This would provide an option to test players after an injury to avoid sending them to the minors to risk another injury.

08-21-2013, 04:28 PM	#20
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 14,143	I don't need too much micromanaging. I send a guy to rehab in one of the following: -He was a AAA callup when he got hurt, and I don't need him anymore -I need to delay his return by a day or 2 to manage another guy's injury status, or I want to wait a couple days to see if someone else gets hurt -he was hurt for longer than 5-6 weeks (I can't be bothered to rehab a guy who was out a few weeks) That's pretty much it. If I'm running away with things, and I don't need the guy, I'll often put him on the rehab assignment just to give others more playing time, but I definitely don't go overboard in making sure guys get playing time in the minors before bringing them back, unless if they missed significant time (2+ months)