FHM 3 still can't develop players

jwr38 · 10-24-2016, 02:41 PM

So in FHM 2 I made a huge post about how the game could not develop its players. Basically after 20 years of simming the 36-39 year old players still lead the scoring.

I was told at the time that this would be fixed in fhm 3. But nope, The sim still can't develop players.

First sim I made (on Mac as it only crashes on pc) was a 20 year straight season to look for any eye-popping data. there are only 36-39 year olds as the lead scorers of their teams. There is a super talent goalie aged 35 in FA but his cap hit is 9million.

Once again, like I pointed out last time, no one is reaching their potential.

Will this be addressed before the end of the beta?

mbaliya · 10-24-2016, 03:27 PM

Im not trying to make excuses, god knows I have major frustrations with the FHM series, but I think some of us get caught up in thinking this game will be a full fledged Sim at the level of the OOTP series and Championship Manager. Those games are brilliant and have been going strong for many years. And while I think in year three those games were more advanced than this game is, it seems to be getting better in alot of ways. And maybe this game will never be on the level of those games and it may be unfair to think of it on those terms. I just want it to work and i swear ill be happy with the best hockey sim there is.

Sebastian Palkowski · 10-24-2016, 04:30 PM

Yeah, right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbaliya

Im not trying to make excuses, god knows I have major frustrations with the FHM series, but I think some of us get caught up in thinking this game will be a full fledged Sim at the level of the OOTP series and Championship Manager. Those games are brilliant and have been going strong for many years. And while I think in year three those games were more advanced than this game is, it seems to be getting better in alot of ways. And maybe this game will never be on the level of those games and it may be unfair to think of it on those terms. I just want it to work and i swear ill be happy with the best hockey sim there is.

jwr38 · 10-24-2016, 04:59 PM

sure sure but this is a single player text based game where low and behold a major area of the game still has it's faults. I don't care if it looks prettier if the game engine behind is still not working. Hell do you know many blow out games there are? Sim out a few years and they happen all the time.

Player development is a major task for any GM. I don't want a sim that I can use for one year.

Now a developer has popped by and said nothing apart from highlighting a post above. I guessing nothing will be done on this issue this year as well then?

mbaliya · 10-24-2016, 05:22 PM

I honestly wasnt trying to put the game down I just think maybe it shouldnt be compared to those games its not fair

JeffR · 10-24-2016, 05:26 PM

Here are a few screenshots from a test game in 2030. In the scoring leaders, the oldest guy in the top 10 is Nathan MacKinnon, age 34. Half of the top 10 is 30 or under.

Second shot is of the leading scorer. 24 years old, developed to 5/5 stars.

Third shot is of the draft from 2026. Four of the players taken then have reached 5 stars, most of the others (aside from a couple of busts) are in the 3-4 range.

If anything, it's developing guys a little too effectively, the generated draft classes are producing an average of 3-4 5-star guys, which is more than I'd like.

If you have some screenshots (or a save file) of the league you're playing where the leaders are in their late 30's after 20 years, I'd like to have a look and see if I can figure out what circumstances are producing that.

jwr38 · 10-24-2016, 06:31 PM

I have saved the game and would happily send it to you ... BUT ... after following the directions in the sticky I only find the FHM 2 folder and not the FHM3 folder. No idea where it is saving the games then.

I can take screen shots but I think the file would be easier to understand. There you will see that the rookies winners never really progress and the oldest are still too good.

I am super happy that you will look into this as last year I completely stopping playing because of this issue.

Sebastian Palkowski · 10-24-2016, 06:33 PM

Are you playing fictional?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwr38

I have saved the game and would happily send it to you ... BUT ... after following the directions in the sticky I only find the FHM 2 folder and not the FHM3 folder. No idea where it is saving the games then.

I can take screen shots but I think the file would be easier to understand. There you will see that the rookies winners never really progress and the oldest are still too good.

I am super happy that you will look into this as last year I completely stopping playing because of this issue.

scootermojo · 10-24-2016, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffR

Here are a few screenshots from a test game in 2030. In the scoring leaders, the oldest guy in the top 10 is Nathan MacKinnon, age 34. Half of the top 10 is 30 or under.

Second shot is of the leading scorer. 24 years old, developed to 5/5 stars.

Third shot is of the draft from 2026. Four of the players taken then have reached 5 stars, most of the others (aside from a couple of busts) are in the 3-4 range.

If anything, it's developing guys a little too effectively, the generated draft classes are producing an average of 3-4 5-star guys, which is more than I'd like.

If you have some screenshots (or a save file) of the league you're playing where the leaders are in their late 30's after 20 years, I'd like to have a look and see if I can figure out what circumstances are producing that.

Hey, Jeff, in that first screenshot, the one with the scoring leaders, when you click on the "regular season" tab and change it to "playoffs" so see playoff stats do you get any stats or just a blank page.......because I'm still getting a blank page when I do.

jwr38 · 10-24-2016, 08:22 PM

I've been looking at the data (draft picks and their stats) and it seems the issue is only with forwards. Defence and goalies are developing but forwards are not. Drafts were heavy defence and often they outscored in their history than the forwards select around them. first overall forwards (which was rare) always seem to bust.

Oh can you make the draft history area sortable? I would love to know in which draft class who did the best in scoring etc.

Sebastian Palkowski · 10-24-2016, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwr38

I've been looking at the data (draft picks and their stats) and it seems the issue is only with forwards. Defence and goalies are developing but forwards are not. Drafts were heavy defence and often they outscored in their history than the forwards select around them. first overall forwards (which was rare) always seem to bust.

Oh can you make the draft history area sortable? I would love to know in which draft class who did the best in scoring etc.

Fictional?

JeffR · 10-24-2016, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scootermojo

Hey, Jeff, in that first screenshot, the one with the scoring leaders, when you click on the "regular season" tab and change it to "playoffs" so see playoff stats do you get any stats or just a blank page.......because I'm still getting a blank page when I do.

It'll be blank in yours, the guys just fixed the bug that's causing that.

JeffR · 10-25-2016, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwr38

I've been looking at the data (draft picks and their stats) and it seems the issue is only with forwards. Defence and goalies are developing but forwards are not. Drafts were heavy defence and often they outscored in their history than the forwards select around them. first overall forwards (which was rare) always seem to bust.

Oh can you make the draft history area sortable? I would love to know in which draft class who did the best in scoring etc.

We really need to know the details of what kind of a game you've set up. I've tried a few different fictional modes, as well as a regular game, and I'm just not seeing what you're describing.

no way · 10-25-2016, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffR

Here are a few screenshots from a test game in 2030. In the scoring leaders, the oldest guy in the top 10 is Nathan MacKinnon, age 34. Half of the top 10 is 30 or under.

Second shot is of the leading scorer. 24 years old, developed to 5/5 stars.

Third shot is of the draft from 2026. Four of the players taken then have reached 5 stars, most of the others (aside from a couple of busts) are in the 3-4 range.

If anything, it's developing guys a little too effectively, the generated draft classes are producing an average of 3-4 5-star guys, which is more than I'd like.

If you have some screenshots (or a save file) of the league you're playing where the leaders are in their late 30's after 20 years, I'd like to have a look and see if I can figure out what circumstances are producing that.

Developement Seems to be ok to me, at least in modern game
here is some drafts I had when I simmed somewhere into 2029 without any interference from my side, there are some years with 3 or even 4 5 stars and there are years with none and mix of both forwards and defencemens, if anything I see no Goaltenders there apart from that seems ok to me:
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jwr38 · 10-25-2016, 03:03 AM

yes it is fictional. it is a 16 team league with farm and 30 team junior. Where will my save be if it isn't in the folder where it is meant to be?

jwr38 · 10-25-2016, 04:55 AM

found the saved files. I just went to the start screen and setting and used the link there. easier than finding the folder.

anyway I uploaded it to the ftp server under the name not developing players.

areas to look.
the history of draft picks. You see forwards not developing.
winners of awards e.g. in 2009 a 39 year old goalie won goalie of the year and then retired.
top scorers of each team in the last season (most aged over 33)

edit: how many copies can I have running? I own 3 computers and I would love to run another long sim but play another. I love looking at all the data after a few years of simming.

no way · 10-25-2016, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwr38

found the saved files. I just went to the start screen and setting and used the link there. easier than finding the folder.

anyway I uploaded it to the ftp server under the name not developing players.

areas to look.
the history of draft picks. You see forwards not developing.
winners of awards e.g. in 2009 a 39 year old goalie won goalie of the year and then retired.
top scorers of each team in the last season (most aged over 33)

edit: how many copies can I have running? I own 3 computers and I would love to run another long sim but play another. I love looking at all the data after a few years of simming.

If nothing changed then with eSelerate version you can have 2 copies licensed at any time. Don't forget to release the licence before uninstalling tho if you'll need to do that.

Lukas Berger · 10-25-2016, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by no way

If nothing changed then with eSelerate version you can have 2 copies licensed at any time. Don't forget to release the licence before uninstalling tho if you'll need to do that.

Yeah, that's correct. If you do uninstall and forget to release the license though, you can always just email us at support@ootpdevelopments.comand I can reset the license for you.

no way · 10-25-2016, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Yeah, that's correct. If you do uninstall and forget to release the license though, you can always just email us at support@ootpdevelopments.comand I can reset the license for you.

I wish I knew that before, I lost 1 licence on FHM14 back then... no worries about it now tho

no way · 10-25-2016, 08:42 AM

I just simmed 45 years in Custom 30 team league (minor and junior leagues included) and After going through leaderboards and draft logs rarely some players reach 4 stars and 5 stars is like once a decade thing. Same goes for point leaders, after the players that were generated at the start of the game retired rarely someone got over 110 ussually leader was between 90 and 110 with average scoring set to ~6 goals per game that is weak

(Record being 153 set in 5th season and top 7 is held by same player)

10-24-2016, 02:41 PM	#1
jwr38 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 65	FHM 3 still can't develop players So in FHM 2 I made a huge post about how the game could not develop its players. Basically after 20 years of simming the 36-39 year old players still lead the scoring. I was told at the time that this would be fixed in fhm 3. But nope, The sim still can't develop players. First sim I made (on Mac as it only crashes on pc) was a 20 year straight season to look for any eye-popping data. there are only 36-39 year olds as the lead scorers of their teams. There is a super talent goalie aged 35 in FA but his cap hit is 9million. Once again, like I pointed out last time, no one is reaching their potential. Will this be addressed before the end of the beta? __________________ __________________ Macbook Pro - Steam

10-24-2016, 04:59 PM	#4
jwr38 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 65	sure sure but this is a single player text based game where low and behold a major area of the game still has it's faults. I don't care if it looks prettier if the game engine behind is still not working. Hell do you know many blow out games there are? Sim out a few years and they happen all the time. Player development is a major task for any GM. I don't want a sim that I can use for one year. Now a developer has popped by and said nothing apart from highlighting a post above. I guessing nothing will be done on this issue this year as well then? __________________ __________________ Macbook Pro - Steam

10-24-2016, 05:26 PM	#6
JeffR FHM Producer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Kelowna, BC Posts: 16,623	Here are a few screenshots from a test game in 2030. In the scoring leaders, the oldest guy in the top 10 is Nathan MacKinnon, age 34. Half of the top 10 is 30 or under. Second shot is of the leading scorer. 24 years old, developed to 5/5 stars. Third shot is of the draft from 2026. Four of the players taken then have reached 5 stars, most of the others (aside from a couple of busts) are in the 3-4 range. If anything, it's developing guys a little too effectively, the generated draft classes are producing an average of 3-4 5-star guys, which is more than I'd like. If you have some screenshots (or a save file) of the league you're playing where the leaders are in their late 30's after 20 years, I'd like to have a look and see if I can figure out what circumstances are producing that. Attached Images

10-24-2016, 06:31 PM	#7
jwr38 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 65	I have saved the game and would happily send it to you ... BUT ... after following the directions in the sticky I only find the FHM 2 folder and not the FHM3 folder. No idea where it is saving the games then. I can take screen shots but I think the file would be easier to understand. There you will see that the rookies winners never really progress and the oldest are still too good. I am super happy that you will look into this as last year I completely stopping playing because of this issue. __________________ __________________ Macbook Pro - Steam

10-24-2016, 08:22 PM	#10
jwr38 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 65	I've been looking at the data (draft picks and their stats) and it seems the issue is only with forwards. Defence and goalies are developing but forwards are not. Drafts were heavy defence and often they outscored in their history than the forwards select around them. first overall forwards (which was rare) always seem to bust. Oh can you make the draft history area sortable? I would love to know in which draft class who did the best in scoring etc. __________________ __________________ Macbook Pro - Steam

10-24-2016, 03:27 PM	#2
mbaliya Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 128	Im not trying to make excuses, god knows I have major frustrations with the FHM series, but I think some of us get caught up in thinking this game will be a full fledged Sim at the level of the OOTP series and Championship Manager. Those games are brilliant and have been going strong for many years. And while I think in year three those games were more advanced than this game is, it seems to be getting better in alot of ways. And maybe this game will never be on the level of those games and it may be unfair to think of it on those terms. I just want it to work and i swear ill be happy with the best hockey sim there is.

10-24-2016, 05:22 PM	#5
mbaliya Minors (Double A) Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 128	I honestly wasnt trying to put the game down I just think maybe it shouldnt be compared to those games its not fair

10-25-2016, 03:03 AM	#15
jwr38 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 65	yes it is fictional. it is a 16 team league with farm and 30 team junior. Where will my save be if it isn't in the folder where it is meant to be? __________________ __________________ Macbook Pro - Steam

10-25-2016, 04:55 AM	#16
jwr38 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Sep 2015 Posts: 65	found the saved files. I just went to the start screen and setting and used the link there. easier than finding the folder. anyway I uploaded it to the ftp server under the name not developing players. areas to look. the history of draft picks. You see forwards not developing. winners of awards e.g. in 2009 a 39 year old goalie won goalie of the year and then retired. top scorers of each team in the last season (most aged over 33) edit: how many copies can I have running? I own 3 computers and I would love to run another long sim but play another. I love looking at all the data after a few years of simming. __________________ __________________ Macbook Pro - Steam Last edited by jwr38; 10-25-2016 at 04:58 AM.

10-25-2016, 08:42 AM	#20
no way Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Plzeň, Czech Republic Posts: 296	I just simmed 45 years in Custom 30 team league (minor and junior leagues included) and After going through leaderboards and draft logs rarely some players reach 4 stars and 5 stars is like once a decade thing. Same goes for point leaders, after the players that were generated at the start of the game retired rarely someone got over 110 ussually leader was between 90 and 110 with average scoring set to ~6 goals per game that is weak (Record being 153 set in 5th season and top 7 is held by same player)