To all the veteran members - Page 4

The Wolf · 01-15-2014, 02:45 PM

Here's the question that triggered the overreaction:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Since when is using Commissioner Mode considered cheating?

If that's offensive, snarky or hijacking, then the moon is made out of green cheese.

Bowtie · 01-15-2014, 02:45 PM

To Whom This Concerns (and most know who I'm referring to):

I will continue to offer hep to newbies however I see fit wherever they shall post their questions. If they post their questions in the wrong forum, I will address their question then kindly inform him/her where to post such questions in the future. If a mod wishes to move their thread (if he/she starts one) to the proper place then that shall be at the moderators discretion. I will not ask the mods to move the thread. If you don't like my way of helping others - no matter where they ask for help - then that's just tough toenails.

Lastly, I offer my congrats to the person I'm referring to here as he just became the first community member to make my ignore list. Perhaps in the future I may consider removing him from such list but for now....well...he's on it.

Cheers,
Bowtie

Fyrestorm3 · 01-15-2014, 03:07 PM

I would like to request that any mod who sees this thread does NOT close it.

It's gotten pretty far off-track, and tempers have flared, but there's plenty of good messages within that should be read by everyone. If we can resist the urge to continue the argument from here on out, I believe that we can still have a good discussion on this very important topic.

pjh5165 · 01-15-2014, 03:12 PM

This thread is unbelievable. If a newbie comes and asks a question in the wrong place, it's really not the end of the world.

BIG17EASY · 01-15-2014, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pjh5165

This thread is unbelievable. If a newbie comes and asks a question in the wrong place, it's really not the end of the world.

Right. But some people thrive on conflict and need to create some where it doesn't exist. And even if it were a problem, there are reasonable ways to handle the situation.

The board rules specifically list this as a warnable offense:

Quote:

Making Users, Especially Newcomers, Feel Unwelcome - Just try to be nice to others and if you just can't then just steer clear of them.

It's a judgement call, but one could argue that rule is being broken at times.

Fyrestorm3 · 01-15-2014, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Right. But some people thrive on conflict and need to create some where it doesn't exist.

That's the key, right there. I've had my problems here and there with some of you folks in the past, but I'm pretty sure there's only one user on these boards who could find some way to take offense to my post that started this whole thing.

So let's drop the subject and make sure the conflict doesn't exist anymore. I'm not blameless here, as I was unable to do that in the first place, but that's what I'm going to strive to do from here on out. And I would advise everyone to do the same. A fire needs oxygen to burn.

Mr. Baseball · 01-15-2014, 03:58 PM

What's with all of the arguments here? I always assume that most (if not all) of the OOTP community are adults. No reason to start an argument or call people out for disagreeing with you, especially if what you're disagreeing with isn't very important to begin with. If there was a leaderboard for the number of times each user has started a thread in the wrong forum, I'd probably rank near the top. Sometimes I'm just not paying attention and navigate to the wrong section before opening a new topic. It's not a big deal. People usually just ignore me and I do the same if I see it. If someone posts in the wrong section and you still want to answer their question, fine, go for it. On the other hand I can see how it might annoy some people and the OP needs to be informed that it's the wrong section. Either way does it really matter?

cephasjames · 01-15-2014, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

That's the key, right there. I've had my problems here and there with some of you folks in the past, but I'm pretty sure there's only one user on these boards who could find some way to take offense to my post that started this whole thing.

So let's drop the subject and make sure the conflict doesn't exist anymore. I'm not blameless here, as I was unable to do that in the first place, but that's what I'm going to strive to do from here on out. And I would advise everyone to do the same. A fire needs oxygen to burn.

And cheese. Most definitely cheese.

David Watts · 01-15-2014, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Baseball

What's with all of the arguments here? I always assume that most (if not all) of the OOTP community are adults. No reason to start an argument or call people out for disagreeing with you, especially if what you're disagreeing with isn't very important to begin with. If there was a leaderboard for the number of times each user has started a thread in the wrong forum, I'd probably rank near the top. Sometimes I'm just not paying attention and navigate to the wrong section before opening a new topic. It's not a big deal. People usually just ignore me and I do the same if I see it. If someone posts in the wrong section and you still want to answer their question, fine, go for it. On the other hand I can see how it might annoy some people and the OP needs to be informed that it's the wrong section. Either way does it really matter?

Nope, I think this goof has to hold the record for posting in the wrong forum, seeing that I started 2 if not 3 seperate VORP threads in the hockey game forum.

Not even sure how I managed to do so, but I finally just hid that forum altogether to spare the hockey folks from further nonsense. Ugh!

kingcharlesxii · 01-15-2014, 04:21 PM

It's pretty easy. Be friendly, courteous and helpful. Helpful includes telling people there is a better place to post if they post in the wrong spot.

Honestly, if this thread was the first thing I saw here, I'm not sure I'd have stayed.

Something helpful might be a link in-game directing new players to the New To The Game? forum instead of here initially.

The Wolf · 01-15-2014, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingcharlesxii

Something helpful might be a link in-game directing new players to the New To The Game? forum instead of here initially.

Good idea.

The Wolf · 01-15-2014, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingcharlesxii

Honestly, if this thread was the first thing I saw here, I'm not sure I'd have stayed.

Well, of course. Because trying to see to it that posts are made - or wind up - in the appropriate forum is just so morally wrong. Not to mention asking honest questions.

Bluenoser · 01-15-2014, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingcharlesxii

It's pretty easy. Be friendly, courteous and helpful. Helpful includes telling people there is a better place to post if they post in the wrong spot.

Honestly, if this thread was the first thing I saw here, I'm not sure I'd have stayed.

Something helpful might be a link in-game directing new players to the New To The Game? forum instead of here initially.

A good idea in principle, however there's already a link to the forums in the game now. If someone coming to the forums can't be bothered to read the titles of the various forums, they're not likely to read the title in game either.

I've said it for years now, and even volunteered for the position - we need a MOD to start moving threads to the correct forum. I always hear the excuse "I posted it on this forum because it has by far the most users reading it."

The reason it has the most users reading it is because of that very reason - everything gets posted here. It's a catchall for everything and anything. If threads start getting put in the proper forum, then people will start learning to use the correct forum. Said forums will then start seeing an increase in the number of users on them. There will always be honest mistakes, especially from newbies, about which forum to post in, but as stated, a moderator could easily move those to the correct forum.

It will probably pi$$ a few people off at first when their thread gets moved, especially those who have been here for a while, but if the moves are consistent, then they'll get over it, and start using the correct forum.

CatKnight · 01-15-2014, 05:25 PM

You know, I've been trying to imagine looking at this thread as if I was completely new to the game or forum.

My first thought would be: "Oh, that's great! Someone's urging the vets to help the newbies out!"

My second thought would be: "What the hell is wrong with these people?"

This forum is, for all purposes (if not intents), a direct advertisement for and reflection of the game and its community. This is the message we're going to send?

Padreman · 01-15-2014, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

Now that OOTP is on Steam, we've been having a lot of new players come on the board. Remember, this is a good thing. We want more people to play OOTP. So make them feel welcome. Resist the urge to treat them like idiots and jerks, like you would the usual gang of knuckleheads around here. Remember that sarcasm doesn't translate very well on the internet, and that some of these new players are young -- younger even than you were when you broke your first tooth on a plank of Topps chewing gum. Assume that all questions are in earnest and all questioners are sincere. Play nice and share your toys and everyone will be happy.

By the way, I get to say this because this is my 1000th post, which I guess makes me a junior-knucklehead or something like that.

Not make them feel like jerks and idiots? Well if you don't what maybe we should lock up the Wolf.

Fyrestorm3 · 01-15-2014, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatKnight

This forum is, for all purposes (if not intents), a direct advertisement for and reflection of the game and its community. This is the message we're going to send?

Which is a good reason we're getting this out of the way now. There will likely be a larger influx of new players than we're accustomed to this year, thanks to the extra advertising from Steam. But by then, we'll be using a fresh new OOTP15 forum. Right now it's best to hash this out here.

Though I'm honestly not sure what we're hashing out.

BIG17EASY · 01-15-2014, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

Which is a good reason we're getting this out of the way now. There will likely be a larger influx of new players than we're accustomed to this year, thanks to the extra advertising from Steam. But by then, we'll be using a fresh new OOTP15 forum. Right now it's best to hash this out here.

Though I'm honestly not sure what we're hashing out.

I think a savvy new user will understand what the actual problem is and not be distracted by the incessant howling in the night. At least I hope that's what's been hashed out.

The Wolf · 01-15-2014, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Padreman

Not make them feel like jerks and idiots? Well if you don't what maybe we should lock up the Wolf.

Yes. Because God forbid that anyone ask them a question about what they wrote or ask them to post in the appropriate forum. It might hurt their their self-esteem to be treated like a grownup instead of a child.

The Wolf · 01-15-2014, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

Which is a good reason we're getting this out of the way now. There will likely be a larger influx of new players than we're accustomed to this year, thanks to the extra advertising from Steam. But by then, we'll be using a fresh new OOTP15 forum. Right now it's best to hash this out here.

Though I'm honestly not sure what we're hashing out.

What we hashed out was the establishment of a protocol, followed by what appeared to me to be a hissy fit over me asking a newbie a question about something they wrote. Because apparently asking non-hostile questions about something a newbie actually wrote is now somehow a hostile thing.

I don't promise to stop asking clarifying questions. Anyone who posts something that begs such a question will get one, because I want to understand what people mean by what they write. But outside of that I will follow BIG17EASY's protocol, so relax.

kingcharlesxii · 01-15-2014, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

A good idea in principle, however there's already a link to the forums in the game now. If someone coming to the forums can't be bothered to read the titles of the various forums, they're not likely to read the title in game either.

If you haven't been to these forums before, it can be really intimidating. I'm assuming the link goes to : http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/board/

which links to dozens of child forums. It's really the most out of any non-Paradox publisher I've seen.

All I'm saying is changing that link to this: OOTP 14 - New to the Game? - OOTP Developments Forums

New people will hopefully be directed to the right forum immediately and vets will know to click away from there. OOTP is not an easy game for new players to learn and I think the forums shouldn't add to that difficulty if at all possible.

01-15-2014, 02:45 PM	#62
Bowtie All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,316	To Whom This Concerns (and most know who I'm referring to): I will continue to offer hep to newbies however I see fit wherever they shall post their questions. If they post their questions in the wrong forum, I will address their question then kindly inform him/her where to post such questions in the future. If a mod wishes to move their thread (if he/she starts one) to the proper place then that shall be at the moderators discretion. I will not ask the mods to move the thread. If you don't like my way of helping others - no matter where they ask for help - then that's just tough toenails. Lastly, I offer my congrats to the person I'm referring to here as he just became the first community member to make my ignore list. Perhaps in the future I may consider removing him from such list but for now....well...he's on it. Cheers, Bowtie __________________

01-15-2014, 03:58 PM	#67
Mr. Baseball All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Mequon, Wisconsin Posts: 1,020	What's with all of the arguments here? I always assume that most (if not all) of the OOTP community are adults. No reason to start an argument or call people out for disagreeing with you, especially if what you're disagreeing with isn't very important to begin with. If there was a leaderboard for the number of times each user has started a thread in the wrong forum, I'd probably rank near the top. Sometimes I'm just not paying attention and navigate to the wrong section before opening a new topic. It's not a big deal. People usually just ignore me and I do the same if I see it. If someone posts in the wrong section and you still want to answer their question, fine, go for it. On the other hand I can see how it might annoy some people and the OP needs to be informed that it's the wrong section. Either way does it really matter? __________________ Duluth Danger (HBL) Dynasty Report -- Online League Franchise Duluth - 1985/1989 North League Champions! Last edited by Mr. Baseball; 01-15-2014 at 04:00 PM.

01-15-2014, 04:21 PM	#70
kingcharlesxii Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,730	It's pretty easy. Be friendly, courteous and helpful. Helpful includes telling people there is a better place to post if they post in the wrong spot. Honestly, if this thread was the first thing I saw here, I'm not sure I'd have stayed. Something helpful might be a link in-game directing new players to the New To The Game? forum instead of here initially. __________________ OTBA - Stockholm Royal Squirrels of Sweden OOTP Grand League Champion 2015

01-15-2014, 03:07 PM	#63
Fyrestorm3 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Tampa Bay, Massachusetts Posts: 2,928	I would like to request that any mod who sees this thread does NOT close it. It's gotten pretty far off-track, and tempers have flared, but there's plenty of good messages within that should be read by everyone. If we can resist the urge to continue the argument from here on out, I believe that we can still have a good discussion on this very important topic.

01-15-2014, 03:12 PM	#64
pjh5165 Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 410	This thread is unbelievable. If a newbie comes and asks a question in the wrong place, it's really not the end of the world.

01-15-2014, 05:25 PM	#74
CatKnight All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 1,199	You know, I've been trying to imagine looking at this thread as if I was completely new to the game or forum. My first thought would be: "Oh, that's great! Someone's urging the vets to help the newbies out!" My second thought would be: "What the hell is wrong with these people?" This forum is, for all purposes (if not intents), a direct advertisement for and reflection of the game and its community. This is the message we're going to send?