There is a potential problem with PCMs

tejdog1 · 05-07-2013, 11:47 AM

And maybe feeders, and maybe scouts, and I have no idea what else.
Check this out, I'm running a test league, and I'm going to post a few screenies: one of the 2014 draft as rated by OSA, and then the same pool as rated by the Mets, Royals, and RedSox

Bluenoser · 05-07-2013, 11:55 AM

Would you care to describe this "HUGE MASSIVE" problem? I mean after all, the sky is obviously falling, so spit it out. Tell us what's wrong.

statfreak · 05-07-2013, 12:04 PM

I hope this thread gets deleted or the title at least changed. I'm tired of seeing these "Chicken Little" threads, especially ones that make wild accusations in the thread title and can't provide any details or proof there is an actual problem.

I actually like helping people that need it, but there are too many negative posts that seem to be posted for no other reason than to bash the game. I'll happily crawl back under my rock and enjoy playing OOTP 14 without noticing any of these problems that seemly affect everyone but me.

Aumakua · 05-07-2013, 12:08 PM

is the huge problem the lack of quality?

thats the only thing I have seen, there are a few stars and the computer takes them when they should, and then its all scrubs. The effect for me has been that there are a bunch of guys hitting over .300 (like 30 of them in a 16 team league) and then a bunch of guys hitting .200-.220.

Same with pitchers, I have a bunch of good ones with ERAs around 2.0-2.4 and then a ton of really bad starters with 6.0+ ERAs, seems like the talent needs to be distributed better.

But that might not be what you are trying to convey in your OP, can't tell...

Charlie Hough · 05-07-2013, 12:18 PM

Maybe I can anticipate the complaint.

You realize that potential can change, right? So those guys who have 20 potential can actually become stars. Have you ever looked at how many real life 'scrubs' were late draft picks or weren't drafted at all, but they became productive MLB players?

From the OOTP 14 manual:

Quote:

Very talented players often (but not always) develop more quickly. In addition, some players simply develop more quickly than others. You might be baffled by the high-potential player who fails to live up to expectations, or be pleasantly surprised by the late-round draft pick who quickly advances.

Chance also plays a hand in rating changes. Sometimes, the light bulb inside a player's head will just go on, and he will jump to a new level of play. Players can experience significant changes in their ratings and potential in a short time. Of course, the same is true in reverse. Some players will never live up to their potential.

If the issue is that the scouts are sometimes wrong, then that's nothing new. If the issue is something else, then I guess you fooled me and we'll wait for subsequent posts.

Cinnamon J. Scudworth · 05-07-2013, 12:21 PM

I think the OP's complaint is that the three scouts whose eyes he's viewing through are seeing virtually no talent in the draft pool at all.

JMDurron · 05-07-2013, 12:28 PM

Turn on Commish Mode, go into the editor, and look at every player in the draft pool. That will tell you whether you are seeing a lousy draft pool (which isn't supposed to happen, I guess? There are bad draft years relative to the norm from time to time, I would think), or scouts who haven't picked out the high potential players yet.

ezpkns34 · 05-07-2013, 12:55 PM

I see the issue, only 1 position player rated in the top 33 in that 1st pic (assuming you even count 1B as a full position

)

tejdog1 · 05-07-2013, 12:55 PM

Thought it was obvious, but I guess not.

I AM in commish mode, I'm scouting the draft pool from different teams POVs, and not ONE team finds ONE talent over 34 potential? And yet OSA (the first screenie I provided) has a bunch over 60? And you guys are OK with this? Little context - this never happened to me in any version prior to v14. So yeah, I think it's an issue, and I know I'm not alone in that feeling.

GrantDawg · 05-07-2013, 12:56 PM

I tell you, the late bloomers in this game are fun. I had one guy that was signed by my AAA manager at 26 as a rookie free agent. He was a first baseman (showing one star potential) after banging around in the minors for five years and never reaching AA. His slash was 8/10/8 (out of 20). I just barely noticed him because he hit 3hr's in a game the first week of the season and I got a news report. Through the season, I kept getting reports because he kept racking up rewards and milestones. By the end of the season, the guy hit 54hr's, and had a slash of 10/17/10. (Ended up trading him for a good starter)

I have another on my team right now (different league, new expansion team), who spent 8 years in the minors with 4 ab's in AAA. I signed him to help fill out my minors (first year of an expansion team). The scouting reports from signing to mid way through the first season went 7/11/9, 9/14/10, 10/17/12. Then I called him up, and he jumped to 11/18/13. Now (a year later) he is 11/17/16! The eye jump was what got me. He is now my everyday RF. I love stuff like that.

markprior22 · 05-07-2013, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by statfreak

I'm tired of seeing these "Chicken Little" threads, especially ones that make wild accusations in the thread title

I get frustrated with people who have these big problems, post pictures and say SEE, THERE IT IS!!! I often don't see it (even if a problem exists). We are all looking at it like a puzzle while the poster is focused on a specific problem. If you are going to go to the trouble of a thread (especially with pictures), at least give a quick explanation of the problem.

And while we're at it....can we make thread titles more descriptive? Thread titles that say "Markus" or "Problem" or "What should I do" really aren't much good. Make the title more descriptive so people will know what in the hell the thread is about.

End rant...back to gaming

JMDurron · 05-07-2013, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tejdog1

Thought it was obvious, but I guess not.

I AM in commish mode, I'm scouting the draft pool from different teams POVs, and not ONE team finds ONE talent over 34 potential? And yet OSA (the first screenie I provided) has a bunch over 60? And you guys are OK with this? Little context - this never happened to me in any version prior to v14. So yeah, I think it's an issue, and I know I'm not alone in that feeling.

Ok, being in Commish mode and looking through the eyes of other scouts and OSA doesn't tell us that there is a problem with the PCMs. If the position players actually ARE so much less talented than the pitchers, then there may be a PCM problem. Do you get why I'm not willing to sign on to the nature of the problem without knowing whether the problem is bad scouting, or bad positional prospects?

FWIW, I'm at work and cannot see your screenshots.

Cinnamon J. Scudworth · 05-07-2013, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markprior22

I get frustrated with people who have these big problems, post pictures and say SEE, THERE IT IS!!! I often don't see it (even if a problem exists). We are all looking at it like a puzzle while the poster is focused on a specific problem. If you are going to go to the trouble of a thread (especially with pictures), at least give a quick explanation of the problem.

And while we're at it....can we make thread titles more descriptive? Thread titles that say "Markus" or "Problem" or "What should I do" really aren't much good. Make the title more descriptive so people will know what in the hell the thread is about.

End rant...back to gaming

I understand people's frustrations with problems in the game, but I really hope they are posting in the bug thread as well, because that's where the OOTP team is most likely to see them.

tejdog1 · 05-07-2013, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I tell you, the late bloomers in this game are fun. I had one guy that was signed by my AAA manager at 26 as a rookie free agent. He was a first baseman (showing one star potential) after banging around in the minors for five years and never reaching AA. His slash was 8/10/8 (out of 20). I just barely noticed him because he hit 3hr's in a game the first week of the season and I got a news report. Through the season, I kept getting reports because he kept racking up rewards and milestones. By the end of the season, the guy hit 54hr's, and had a slash of 10/17/10. (Ended up trading him for a good starter)

I have another on my team right now (different league, new expansion team), who spent 8 years in the minors with 4 ab's in AAA. I signed him to help fill out my minors (first year of an expansion team). The scouting reports from signing to mid way through the first season went 7/11/9, 9/14/10, 10/17/12. Then I called him up, and he jumped to 11/18/13. Now (a year later) he is 11/17/16! The eye jump was what got me. He is now my everyday RF. I love stuff like that.

Yes, yes, I've had stuff like that happen to me a TON, but that's not what I'm talking about. How is it possible that NOT ONE TEAM sees ONE PLAYER with a ceiling over 35? And everyone here is OK with this?

ezpkns34 · 05-07-2013, 01:28 PM

Do those teams have ****ty scouts? Is scouting even on? You gotta post necessary details & info man

tejdog1 · 05-07-2013, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ezpkns34

Do those teams have ****ty scouts? Is scouting even on? You gotta post necessary details & info man

Scouting is on, and they do not have s***ty scouts.

GrantDawg · 05-07-2013, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tejdog1

Yes, yes, I've had stuff like that happen to me a TON, but that's not what I'm talking about. How is it possible that NOT ONE TEAM sees ONE PLAYER with a ceiling over 35? And everyone here is OK with this?

Not really. They all seem to be on the same playing field, so what they see being equal....

The question that would worry me is are there really no talented players coming out? The answer (by osa) is no. So, again not really a problem.

As to why it is like this, my guess would be what each scout weighs by their preference settings is what is making the difference. Just a guess.

tejdog1 · 05-07-2013, 01:47 PM

Maybe it's just me freaking out, but I've never once run into this in any other version of OOTP. 8, 11, 12, 13.

Bluenoser · 05-07-2013, 01:50 PM

I'm just curious, but what are your PCM's set at?

I always leave mine at default pretty much, and have never seen this problem.

BIG17EASY · 05-07-2013, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tejdog1

Maybe it's just me freaking out, but I've never once run into this in any other version of OOTP. 8, 11, 12, 13.

Your thread title might be a little overboard, but I agree with you that this is a bit concerning. Three scouts with good ratings shouldn't be so vastly different than the OSA's evaluation of the draft pool.

One question, did you try requesting scouting reports on some draft pool players with those scouts? I'd be interested to see if the scouting report that's sent to you gives different info than what those scouts are currently showing for draft pool players. I've seen some fairly drastic changes (plus or minus up to 2.5 stars for potential) when doing that in my games, both in OOTP 13 and 14.

05-07-2013, 11:47 AM	#1
tejdog1 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Danbury, CT Posts: 1,618	There is a potential problem with PCMs And maybe feeders, and maybe scouts, and I have no idea what else. Check this out, I'm running a test league, and I'm going to post a few screenies: one of the 2014 draft as rated by OSA, and then the same pool as rated by the Mets, Royals, and RedSox __________________ It's amazing How you make your face just like a wall How you take your heart and turn it off How I turn my head and lose it all And it's unnerving How just one move puts me by myself There you go just trusting someone else Now I know I put us both through hell ~Matchbox 20, "Leave" Everyone knows it's spelled "TRAID", not trade Last edited by Markus Heinsohn; 05-08-2013 at 11:00 AM. Reason: Edited title

05-07-2013, 12:04 PM	#3
statfreak Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 2,435	I hope this thread gets deleted or the title at least changed. I'm tired of seeing these "Chicken Little" threads, especially ones that make wild accusations in the thread title and can't provide any details or proof there is an actual problem. I actually like helping people that need it, but there are too many negative posts that seem to be posted for no other reason than to bash the game. I'll happily crawl back under my rock and enjoy playing OOTP 14 without noticing any of these problems that seemly affect everyone but me. __________________ Roll out the barrel!

05-07-2013, 12:21 PM	#6
Cinnamon J. Scudworth All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 1,119	I think the OP's complaint is that the three scouts whose eyes he's viewing through are seeing virtually no talent in the draft pool at all. __________________ "Sometimes, this is like going to a grocery store. You’ve got a list until you get to the check-out stand. And then you start reading People magazine, and all this other [stuff] ends up in the basket." -Sandy Alderson on the MLB offseason

05-07-2013, 12:55 PM	#9
tejdog1 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Danbury, CT Posts: 1,618	Thought it was obvious, but I guess not. I AM in commish mode, I'm scouting the draft pool from different teams POVs, and not ONE team finds ONE talent over 34 potential? And yet OSA (the first screenie I provided) has a bunch over 60? And you guys are OK with this? Little context - this never happened to me in any version prior to v14. So yeah, I think it's an issue, and I know I'm not alone in that feeling. __________________ It's amazing How you make your face just like a wall How you take your heart and turn it off How I turn my head and lose it all And it's unnerving How just one move puts me by myself There you go just trusting someone else Now I know I put us both through hell ~Matchbox 20, "Leave" Everyone knows it's spelled "TRAID", not trade

05-07-2013, 01:47 PM	#18
tejdog1 All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Danbury, CT Posts: 1,618	Maybe it's just me freaking out, but I've never once run into this in any other version of OOTP. 8, 11, 12, 13. __________________ It's amazing How you make your face just like a wall How you take your heart and turn it off How I turn my head and lose it all And it's unnerving How just one move puts me by myself There you go just trusting someone else Now I know I put us both through hell ~Matchbox 20, "Leave" Everyone knows it's spelled "TRAID", not trade

05-07-2013, 11:55 AM	#2
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 13,683	Would you care to describe this "HUGE MASSIVE" problem? I mean after all, the sky is obviously falling, so spit it out. Tell us what's wrong.

05-07-2013, 12:08 PM	#4
Aumakua Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Flat lands Posts: 421	is the huge problem the lack of quality? thats the only thing I have seen, there are a few stars and the computer takes them when they should, and then its all scrubs. The effect for me has been that there are a bunch of guys hitting over .300 (like 30 of them in a 16 team league) and then a bunch of guys hitting .200-.220. Same with pitchers, I have a bunch of good ones with ERAs around 2.0-2.4 and then a ton of really bad starters with 6.0+ ERAs, seems like the talent needs to be distributed better. But that might not be what you are trying to convey in your OP, can't tell...

05-07-2013, 12:28 PM	#7
JMDurron All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,262	Turn on Commish Mode, go into the editor, and look at every player in the draft pool. That will tell you whether you are seeing a lousy draft pool (which isn't supposed to happen, I guess? There are bad draft years relative to the norm from time to time, I would think), or scouts who haven't picked out the high potential players yet.

05-07-2013, 12:55 PM	#8
ezpkns34 All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 693	I see the issue, only 1 position player rated in the top 33 in that 1st pic (assuming you even count 1B as a full position )

05-07-2013, 12:56 PM	#10
GrantDawg All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Covington, Ga. Posts: 519	I tell you, the late bloomers in this game are fun. I had one guy that was signed by my AAA manager at 26 as a rookie free agent. He was a first baseman (showing one star potential) after banging around in the minors for five years and never reaching AA. His slash was 8/10/8 (out of 20). I just barely noticed him because he hit 3hr's in a game the first week of the season and I got a news report. Through the season, I kept getting reports because he kept racking up rewards and milestones. By the end of the season, the guy hit 54hr's, and had a slash of 10/17/10. (Ended up trading him for a good starter) I have another on my team right now (different league, new expansion team), who spent 8 years in the minors with 4 ab's in AAA. I signed him to help fill out my minors (first year of an expansion team). The scouting reports from signing to mid way through the first season went 7/11/9, 9/14/10, 10/17/12. Then I called him up, and he jumped to 11/18/13. Now (a year later) he is 11/17/16! The eye jump was what got me. He is now my everyday RF. I love stuff like that.

05-07-2013, 01:28 PM	#15
ezpkns34 All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 693	Do those teams have ****ty scouts? Is scouting even on? You gotta post necessary details & info man

05-07-2013, 01:50 PM	#19
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 13,683	I'm just curious, but what are your PCM's set at? I always leave mine at default pretty much, and have never seen this problem.