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Old 03-15-2013, 09:03 AM   #61
CBL-Commish
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Originally Posted by Ceej View Post
So I guess I'll just do these as a rambling series of posts alphabetical by city name, for as many cities as I have time for in a given post.

BALTIMORE
Oriole Park I: 0% (1884)
Oriole Park II: 0% (1890)
Oriole Park III: 20% (1893), 18% (1895), 33% (1899)

These were three different parks all built within blocks of each other, not a ballpark rebuilt twice on the same site. I can't really find anything about the first couple, and 1890 was the only full season that Oriole Park II was even open. According to the scant information on Seamheads the dimensions we know of for Oriole Park III did not change in its eight years of operation - 1899 had a particularly small sample size so an overall rate in the low 20s might be the best place to set it.

Memorial Stadium: 0% (1958), 0% (1966), 0% (1979)
Did not find any ITPHRs here in the years I ran. It was deeper to dead center in its first few seasons, but not remarkably deep by 1950s standards. Probably an average rate would do for this one.

BOSTON
South End Grounds I: was below average for all the 1870s-80s seasons I ran. Rate of about 7% would do it.

South End Grounds II: 6% (1890), 0% (1893)
Center field sure looks huge in that 1893 photo on Wikipedia, and lots of home runs were hit here, just not the inside-the-park kind according to the data on hand. It was short down both lines like the Polo Grounds.

South End Grounds III: 1% (1895), 1% (1899), 5% (1900), 3% (1901), 4% (1902), 0% (1903), 0% (1905), 15% (1907), 0% (1908), 4% (1910), 4% (1913)
So yeah, this park was always well below average for ITPHRs. 3 or 4% would fit for many years.

Huntington Avenue Baseball Grounds: 100% (1901), 85% (1902), 100% (1903), 83% (1905), 72% (1907), 82% (1908), 40% (1910)
A big yard that was excellent for inside-the-park homers in the 1900s. I guess the drop in 1910 must have been because the left field line was shortened from 350 feet down to 305 when the third-base bleachers were extended, according to Seamheads.

Fenway Park: 100% (1913), 33% and 40% (1915), 29% (1917), 23% (1919), 6% (1920), 16% (1921), 12% (1923), 3% (1925), 0% from 1931 forward
Few home runs of any kind seem to have been hit in Fenway in the 1910s, so the numbers are a bit swingy there. It ran about average in the early '20s and then I have no more ITPHRs recorded for the seasons I did, not even in 1931 when it was 468 to center. I would think the only way to ever get one at Fenway in its current configuration would be to hit the ball into that notch just right of center, wouldn't everyone say?

Braves Field: 67% (1915 partial season), 94% (1917), 95% (1919), 94% (1920), 89% (1921), 97% (1923), 93% (1925), 0 and 3% (1921), 0% (1938), 1% (1948)
This was very well known as a great park for ITPHRs (turns out the Braves owner deliberately designed it to be that way). The rate is remarkably consistent in the 90-95% range until the fences were brought way, way in before the 1928 season and it looks like it was probably just average from then on.
It's awesome when someone else takes over your obsession and elevates it to previously unknown levels! You're an inside-the-park homer czar!
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Old 03-16-2013, 10:34 PM   #62
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CHICAGO
23rd Street Park:
75% (1876), 50% (1877)
Lake Front Park I: 100% (1878), 100% (1879), 100% (1880)
Lake Front Park II: 0% (1884)
Lake Front Park was that one with the crazy short fences. The dimensions actually stayed the same between I and II; all that changed was that hitting the ball over the right field fence only counted as a double prior to 1884.

West Side Park: 7% (1890)
West Side Grounds: 9% (1893), 4% (1895), 25% (1899), 12% (1900), 6% (1901), 25% (1902), 56% (1903), 82% (1905), 71% (1907), 64% (1908), 44% (1910), 56% (1913), 21% (1915)
The dimensions never changed at West Side Grounds. It ran consistently below average in its first few seasons but from 1901 forward it looks about average overall.

South Side Park II: 81% (1890), 0% (1893 partial season)
South Side Park III: 31% (1901), 100% (1902), 0% (1903), 40% (1905), 25% (1907), 60% (1908), 0% (1910 partial season)
South Side III was another park with ITPHR rates that fluctuated wildly due to very low HR rates overall. I'd just rate it average.

Comiskey Park I: 0% (1910 partial season), 56% (1913), 54% (1915), 0% (1917), 67% (1919), 31% (1920), 3% (1921), 0% (1923), 0% (1925), 4% (1931), 2% (1938), 0% (1948), 3% (1958), 0% (1966), 2% (1979)
This park probably ran about average for most of its life. Near the end of its run it had become a rather spacious park when compared to all the newer, smaller parks opened around the majors in the '60s-'70s, so an above-average rate could be justified here for the 1970s and '80s.

Wrigley Field: 9% (1915), 12% (1917), 11% (1919), 12% (1920), 0% (1921), 0% (1923), 0% (1925), 3% (1931), 0% (1938), 4% (1948), 1% (1958), 2% (1966), 0% (1979)
Wrigley's rate was definitely below average in the deadball era but runs about average after that.

CINCINNATI
Avenue Grounds:
25% (1876), 20% (1877), 20% (1878), 7% (1879)
Bank Street Grounds: 8% (1880)
League Park I: 2% (1884), 18% (1890), 27% (1893)
League Park II: 25% (1895), 0% (1899), 70% (1900), 86% (1901)
After a fire on May 28, 1900, the diamond was shifted, possibly explaining the spike in ITPHRs in its last couple seasons.

Palace of the Fans: 91% (1902), 89% (1903), 93% (1905), 88% (1907), 80% (1908), 86% (1910)
Redland/Crosley Field: 89% (1913), 100% (1915), 85% (1917), 87% (1919), 83% (1920), 43% (1921), 60% (1923), 50% (1925), 0% (1931), 1% (1938), 0% (1948), 0% (1958), 0% (1966)
Very consistently high range from the 1900s through the early lively ball era of the '20s. Looks like it was low-to-average after that though.

CLEVELAND
League Park I:
32% (1893), 27% (1895), 14% (1899), 50% (1901), 19% (1902), 7% (1903), 0% (1905), 27% (1907), 53% (1908)
Below average overall.

League Park II/Dunn Field: 43% (1910), 69% (1913), 38% (1915), 77% (1917), 69% (1919), 45% (1920), 12% (1921), 5% (1923), 10% (1925), 0% (1931), 0% (1938)
This park had an above-average rate after the refurbishment, despite the park dimensions actually having shrunk overall. The right field fence was raised from 20 to 45 feet high, though.

Cleveland Stadium had a 0% rate for every year done.

DETROIT
Recreation Park:
19% (1884)
Bennett Park: 69% (1901), 81% (1902), 91% (1903), 60% (1905), 83% (1907), 58% (1908), 56% (1910)
Above-average park for inside-the-parkers.

Navin/Briggs/Tiger Stadium: 57% (1913), 20% (1915), 60% (1917), 4% (1919), 11% (1920), 15% (1921), 12% (1923), 6% (1925), 0% (1931), 1% (1938), 0% (1948), 0% (1958), 1% (1966), 0% (1979)
And after the refurbishment it looks close to average overall to me. The fences were lowered and brought in prior to the 1920 season and the fence heights were changed a bit between '35 and '61 but it doesn't seem to have made a huge difference.
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:51 PM   #63
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HOUSTON
Astrodome:
4% (1966), 4% (1979)
Small sample size but being Astroturf, it should have been a consistently good park for them.

KANSAS CITY
Municipal Stadium:
1% (1958), 2% (1966)
Probably about average or a little above. From 1965 forward was pretty deep to left (369-370 down the line, 409 to left center).

Royals Stadium: 6% (1979)
That rate is really high. Maybe '79 was an outlier and it wouldn't have happened without Willie Wilson on the team, but it was known for years that Royals Stadium was a great park for triples so it would stand to reason that it was great for inside-the-parkers as well.

LOUISVILLE
Louisville Baseball Park: 89% (1876), 100% (1877)
Eclipse Park I: 0% (1884), 0% (1890)
Eclipse Park II: 44% (1893), 4% (1895), 34% (1899)
I couldn't find dimensions for Eclipse Park II, but I's were pretty spacious despite the rate of zero for those two seasons.

LOS ANGELES
L.A. Memorial Coliseum: 0% (1958)
Did anyone ever hit an inside-the-parker here in the handful of seasons it was open? I would think the rate here would be well below average.

Dodger Stadium: 1% (1966), 1% (1979)
Small sample size but it was about one-third above the average rate in both years I did.

NEW YORK
Union Grounds: 11% (1876)

Polo Grounds I: 13% and 0% (1884)
Polo Grounds III: 20% (1890)
Polo Grounds IV: 16% (1890), 16% (1893), 5% (1895), 0% (1899), 5% (1900), 16% (1901), 19% (1902), 11% (1903), 44% (1905), 37% (1907), 38% (1908), 30% (1910)
Polo Grounds V: 40 and 16% (1913), 23 and 26% (1915), 26 and 29% (1917), 16 and 9% (1919), 11 and 25% (1920), 7 and 15% (1921), 6% (1923), 6% (1925), 2% (1931), 4% (1938), 2% (1948)
I expected to see a high rate here because of the huge center field, but I now conclude it was offset by the shortness down the lines. Sometimes its rate was higher than the overall rate, sometimes it was lower, and I think if you averaged it all out, this was an average park overall.

Hilltop Park: 6% (1903), 90% (1905), 94% (1907), 93% (1908), 100% (1910)
A very good park for ITPHRs after they pushed back the right field fence in 1904.

Yankee Stadium I: 26% (1923), 16% (1925), 7% (1931), 2% (1938), 1% (1948), 4% (1958), 3% (1966)
One of the AL's best parks for ITPHRs what with that spacious center field. In many years this park was double or more the average rate.

PHILADELPHIA
Jefferson Street Grounds: 38% (1884), 5% (1890)
Keystone Park: 20% (1884)
Philadelphia Baseball Grounds: 33% (1890), 22% (1893)
Philadelphia Baseball Grounds was 500 feet to left (!), 500 to center and 300 to right.

Baker Bowl: 2% (1895), 0% (1899), 0% (1900), 12% (1901), 57% (1902), 18% (1903), 23% (1905), 57% (1907), 67% (1908), 20% (1910), 3% (1913), 0% (1915, '17, '19 and '20), 2% (1921), 0% (1923), 2% (1925), 0% (1931 and '38)
As I expected, this was among the toughest of the old timey parks to get an inside-the-parker in. The rate was 0% in many years. I'm not sure why it was above average in 1907 and '08.

Columbia Park: 21% (1901), 20% (1902), 8% (1903), 14% (1905), 14% (1907), 27% (1908)
Below average park, half or less than half the average rate. It was 340 feet to left but only 280 to right.

Shibe Park/Connie Mack Stadium: 67% (1910), 3% (1913), 29% (1915), 7% (1917), 71% (1919), 1% (1920), 2% (1921), 2% (1923), 6% (1925), 3% (1931), 0% (1938), 1 and 4% (1948), 1% (1958), 4% (1966)
This park had a low rate through the deadball era until that one high year in 1919, after which the fences were pushed back and the center field wall raised. It had a low rate in the '20s and then an average-to-good rate from the '30s-'60s.

Last edited by Ceej; 03-17-2013 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:16 PM   #64
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PITTSBURGH
Exposition Park I: 20% (1884)
Recreation Park: 25% (1890)
Exposition Park III: 100% (1893), 83% (1895), 95% (1899), 67% (1900), 87% (1901), 100% (1902), 95% (1903), 100% (1905), 90% (1907), 79% (1915)
Most write-ups of Exposition Park seem to concentrate on all the flooding problems it had, making it seem like a nondescript park that writers can't find much else to say about. But there's at least one other thing: inside-the-parkers were very common as this park had a massive outfield. It was 400 down the left field line and 380 down the right.

Forbes Field: 52% (1910), 67% (1913), 80% (1915), 50% (1917), 80% (1919), 80% (1920), 30% (1921), 24% (1923), 23% (1925), 22% (1931), 7% (1938), 1% (1948), 2% (1958), 2% (1966)
Another big park that continued to give up a lot of ITPHRs well into the lively ball era. The 1% low in 1948 was during '47-'53 when the Kiner's Korner fence was erected in left.

ST. LOUIS
Sportsman's Park I: 21% (1884), 1% (1890)
Sportsman's Park II: 30% (1902), 17% (1903), 25% (1905), 33% (1907), 21% (1908)
A pretty small park so the below average rate is not too surprising.

Sportsman's Park III: 29% (1910), 17% (1913), 0% (1915), 17% (1917), 10% (1919), 11 and 0% (1920), 5 and 4% (1921), 1 and 2% (1923), 3 and 0% (1925), 1 and 0% (1931), 2 and 0% (1938), 0 and 3% (1948), 1% (1958), 0% (1966 partial season)
It was bigger after the renovation in 1909 but still wasn't a particularly good park for ITPHRs.

Robison Field: 33% (1893), 17% (1895), 9% (1899), 40% (1900), 81% (1901), 100% (1902), 80% (1903), 63% (1905), 78% (1907), 94% (1908), 83% (1910), 65% (1913), 59% (1915), 80% (1917), 53% (1919), 33% (1920)
The jump in 1900 corresponds with pushing the right field wall back, and it was a good park for ITPHRs from that year on. It was still pretty short to right, but left and center were always deep.

WASHINGTON
Capitol Grounds: 0% (1884)
Boundary Field: 20% (1893), 35% (1895), 9% (1899)
American League Park I: 19% (1901), 22% (1902), 21% (1903)
Below average park. It was pretty deep to right but short to left (290 down the line, 315 to short left, 362 to left center).

American League Park II: 63% (1905), 40% (1907), 72% (1908), 33% (1910)
The dimensions were about average for the era and the rate hops around above and below the overall rate from season to season, so this is probably an average park.

Griffith Stadium: 61% (1913), 100% (1915), 50% (1917), 43% (1919), 58% (1920), 52% (1921), 52% (1923), 19% (1925), 19% (1931), 8% (1938), 17% (1948), 0% (1958)
A very good home run park for many years with a deep left field. Left was reduced in the mid-1950s though, so that 0% tally in 1958 might not be a fluke.
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:38 PM   #65
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So that wraps up three weeks of mind-numbing spreadsheet tallying The only other thing I can think of to say is to summarize all the '70s-'80s parks: in 1979 turf parks had a 2.2% ITP rate while grass parks had a 0.39% rate, that would work pretty well as a general rule in most cases I think.

A reminder, my excel file containing all this stuff can be found at the bottom of my Dropbox page here. Maybe if it's now too late to get this in for release day we could see it in a patch or something in the near future.
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:13 AM   #66
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awsome work everyone.

just a thought do these numbers relate to Triples?

if so then that might be a way of smothing the numbers where the actual data is inconsistent or sparse
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:32 PM   #67
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Am I the only one who desperately wants to see a game between modern Major League teams played on a field that's 500-500-500? And can we make it a team like the Tigers, with an ample compliment of portly sluggers?

If/when Markus implements this fix I'm going to make sure I have some parks that are HUGE, and I'm going to make a habit of scanning their box scores daily.
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:13 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Kobeck View Post
awsome work everyone.

just a thought do these numbers relate to Triples?

if so then that might be a way of smothing the numbers where the actual data is inconsistent or sparse
I thought of doing up a double line chart tracking them side-by-side, until I saw that even at the peak of inside-the-parkers in 1908, there were over six times as many triples (1001 that year vs. 152 ITPs), so they're just not on the same scale for that idea to work in a chart. But what I could do is a single line chart tracking the triples rate through baseball history, then overlay it on top of the ITP chart and see how they match up.
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Old 04-12-2013, 11:22 AM   #69
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I don't have the game yet, but would appreciate feedback on whether any of the ISTP homer stuff made it into this version.
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Old 04-12-2013, 12:10 PM   #70
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from markus "I think I made a few tweaks to the code. But a proper inside the park HR ratio will need a bigger change in the code that will be part of OOTP 15."
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:28 AM   #71
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I sit down to watch one of my first spring training games with OOTP14, and wouldn't you know it... the opposing leadoff hitter gets an inside-the-parker! I think that might be the first one I've ever witnessed in 13 versions of OOTP.

You think Markus is sneaky and devious enough to have hard-coded that one just for me?
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