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Old 10-28-2019, 07:53 AM   #1
Matt Arnold
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Idle Thoughts

A random comment from someone got me thinking, "If I were to start a team from scratch and buy 100$ in points, how crazy of an offense could I build on a new team?"

So, here's the challenge: Build as good* of a team as you can on 175k PP. I'm going to throw some conditions too:
-Everyone has to be listed at their current (approximate) auction house price, so you can't be like "I'm buying Ruth for 25k". Not everyone has to be on the auction house right now, but you gotta at least be close at their sale price
-Everyone has to play at a position that they're listed for. So, you can use Bellinger at 1B or RF, but you can't play him at SS. Or even buy Jackie Robinson to play SS, even if he could train up there.
-You're only buying your starting lineup, so 9 guys. I'll give you bonus credit if you don't spend all the 175 and have enough left over to buy some pitching or utility guys, but I'm not worried about that here
-You also get bonus points if your players have some sort of defense. While the focus is on creating offense, and you're more than welcome to run out Carew at 2B, you're gonna be a better team if you have a LeMahieu or a Robinson playing up the middle if you can afford them.

Enjoy! I'll post mine later
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Old 10-28-2019, 09:47 AM   #2
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Wow Matt, What a GREAT way to try and get everyone to spend a Hundred bucks. 😎😉
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Old 10-28-2019, 09:51 AM   #3
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So how you wanna transfer that $100 to me?
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Old 10-28-2019, 09:56 AM   #4
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I've probably dropped around a bill, over time.

Starting clean from scratch I'd do a better job of it, wasted some of that.

But :shrug: no claim to perfection. I've made plenty of less-than-ideal choices, too.
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Old 10-28-2019, 10:14 AM   #5
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I'll post my hypothetical later as well. An interesting exercise in team building in prospect here
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Old 10-28-2019, 10:56 AM   #6
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I'm a little partial to the era I know so here I go. I will base it on WAR.


C- Piazza (1998) 8K PP (5.4 WAR)
1B- Carew (1977) 8K (9.7 WAR)
2B- Hornsby (1928 SE) 26k (8.8 WAR)
3B- Ron Santo (1964) 8K (8.9 WAR)
SS - Ernie Banks (1958) 10K (9.3 WAR)
LF Jim Rice (1978) 3K (7.6 WAR)
CF- Fred Lynn (1979) 20K (8.9 WAR)
RF- Ichiho Suzuki ((2004) 12K (9.2 WAR)
DH- Carl Yazstremski (Legend) 80K (12.5 WAR 1967)

175,000 PP
80.3 WAR (8.9 WAR average)

Lots of hitting, power is there, some speed.

(I don't have pitching unless I get a deal in AH)


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Old 10-28-2019, 11:01 AM   #7
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here is a quick idea i had seems to add up right

C 86 Smoky 14k
1st 89 Buck O'Neil 15k
2nd 97 Hornsby 26k
3rd 86 Pie Traynor 10k
SS 91 Nomar 15k
LF 96 AS McNeil 27k
CF 89 Duffy 20k
RF 87 Heilmann 7k
DH 94 Sisler 40k
174k


Just a quick review of what was on hand and could be priced sure there is better

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Old 10-28-2019, 11:29 AM   #8
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I swear, it's not a ploy to get people to spend

My first cut:
Pos Player Cost
C Burgess 14
1B Sisler 84 17
2B SE Horsnby 26
SS Nomar 15
3B Boggs 87 9
LF Yaz SE 31
CF Trout 45
RF Cruz 5
DH Heilman 7

I still have 6k left to spend, and don't see any obvious swaps on the list that make sense to me. Maybe swapping out Nomar, although I don't see much of a fit for anyone else. Not much speed, but I think Trout+Cruz are the only sub-80 contact bats in the lineup, but Trout can walk and both provide solid pop that a lot of the other guys in the lineup are lacking.
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Old 10-28-2019, 02:24 PM   #9
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Typing this on my phone, so no prices...but this, as promised, is my hypothetical

C - Mike LaValliere (69)
1B - Daniel Murphy (78?)
2B - Johnny Pesky (84)
SS - Dick Groat (78)
3B - Freddie Lindstrom (85)
LF - Pete Rose (81)
CF - Curt Flood (83, SE)
RF - Ichiro Suzuki (74)
DH - Tony Gwynn (80)

Notice how cheap I've gone. The idea for me would be to stock up on good pitching with the rest of the points, putting a priority on advancement rather than offense. Training would be required in some spots.

I believe you can do the entire offense for around 35-40k, saving 130k, give or take a few thousand, for effective pitching.
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Old 10-28-2019, 07:29 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Arnold View Post
A random comment from someone got me thinking, "If I were to start a team from scratch and buy 100$ in points, how crazy of an offense could I build on a new team?"

So, here's the challenge: Build as good* of a team as you can on 175k PP. I'm going to throw some conditions too:
-Everyone has to be listed at their current (approximate) auction house price, so you can't be like "I'm buying Ruth for 25k". Not everyone has to be on the auction house right now, but you gotta at least be close at their sale price
-Everyone has to play at a position that they're listed for. So, you can use Bellinger at 1B or RF, but you can't play him at SS. Or even buy Jackie Robinson to play SS, even if he could train up there.
-You're only buying your starting lineup, so 9 guys. I'll give you bonus credit if you don't spend all the 175 and have enough left over to buy some pitching or utility guys, but I'm not worried about that here
-You also get bonus points if your players have some sort of defense. While the focus is on creating offense, and you're more than welcome to run out Carew at 2B, you're gonna be a better team if you have a LeMahieu or a Robinson playing up the middle if you can afford them.

Enjoy! I'll post mine later
I love this thought experiment. Team building like this is the strength of this game mode, one that I hope tournaments will reinvigorate as they provide an outlet for more than the one linear path to team building per account we're now normally accorded.

I don't necessarily agree with the limitations of sticking with rated defensive positions and only a starting 9, as I believe both are ways to effectively exploit market inequities that help meet the objectives of this experiment. While this will prevent me from reusing some players from my own Mustangs team (such as non-SE Cedeno in LF or a future 2B platoon of my current 1B and 3B - Perfect Joe Morgan and Peak Barry Larkin respectively), it doesn't negate the value or the attractiveness of the exercise. If anything, it will help me further analyze my team, the Mustangs, who took this exact approach to team building and see how successful I actually was with it.

I'll post my theoretical team here later in a separate post once I'm able to do the due diligence that this exercise deserves
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Old 10-28-2019, 07:54 PM   #11
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I am going to play the park factors on this one since it is an important part of the game:

AVG LHB 1.100
AVG RHB 0.900
Doubles 1.500
Triples 1.500
Home Runs LHB 1.100
Home Runs RHB 0.900

ALL LEFTIES
C Burgess (86) 13900
1B Carew (87) Peak 13750
2B McNeil (91) Live 1500
3B Boggs (87) 9449
SS John Henry Lloyd (91) 37000
LF Bellinger (100) Live 26500
CF Dykstra (91) 24750
RF Yelich (100) Live 32000
DH Gwynn (80) Peak 10000
Utility Cano (88) 2850
Utility Corey Seager (84) Live 1211
Utility Lavalliere (69) 500
Utility Ichiro Suzuki (68) 200
Utility Joc Pederson (84) 1190
Total 174800
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Old 10-29-2019, 06:21 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daves View Post
I am going to play the park factors on this one since it is an important part of the game:

AVG LHB 1.100
AVG RHB 0.900
Doubles 1.500
Triples 1.500
Home Runs LHB 1.100
Home Runs RHB 0.900

ALL LEFTIES
C Burgess (86) 13900
1B Carew (87) Peak 13750
2B McNeil (91) Live 1500
3B Boggs (87) 9449
SS John Henry Lloyd (91) 37000
LF Bellinger (100) Live 26500
CF Dykstra (91) 24750
RF Yelich (100) Live 32000
DH Gwynn (80) Peak 10000
Utility Cano (88) 2850
Utility Corey Seager (84) Live 1211
Utility Lavalliere (69) 500
Utility Ichiro Suzuki (68) 200
Utility Joc Pederson (84) 1190
Total 174800
I was taking the average price the last 7 days and realized McNeil must have been some glitch. I don't know how he was 1,500 so I updated the team.

C Burgess (86) 13900
1B Carew (87) Peak 13750
2B McNeil (91) Live 4500
3B Boggs (87) 9449
SS John Henry Lloyd (91) 37000
LF Bellinger (100) Live 26500
CF Dykstra (91) 24750
RF Yelich (100) Live 32000
DH Gwynn (80) Peak 10000
Utility Corey Seager (84) Live 1211
Utility Lavalliere (69) 500
Utility Ichiro Suzuki (68) 200
Utility Joc Pederson (84) 1190
Total 174950
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Old 10-29-2019, 01:23 PM   #13
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If I was starting at 175k PP at this stage in the game cycle, I would go with entirely LIVE cards. They're pretty cheap, and nearly always available on the AH due to their 70% drop rate. And the ratings are locked in now.

And you'd be in good shape for the LIVE-only tournaments about to be released. Win some rewards from tourneys to help build up your PP and collection. And the best part? If you want to go a different direction in the future, you can cash out for near your purchase price and start again.

It'd look something like this:

C: Yasmani Grandal (92)
1B: Cody Bellinger (100)
2B: DJ LeMahieu (94)
3B: Anthony Rendon (100)
SS: Andrelton Simmons (75)
LF: Juan Soto (94)
CF: Mike Trout (100)
RF: Christian Yelich (100)
DH: Keston Hiura (89)
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Old 10-29-2019, 07:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argonaut View Post
If I was starting at 175k PP at this stage in the game cycle, I would go with entirely LIVE cards. They're pretty cheap, and nearly always available on the AH due to their 70% drop rate. And the ratings are locked in now.

And you'd be in good shape for the LIVE-only tournaments about to be released. Win some rewards from tourneys to help build up your PP and collection. And the best part? If you want to go a different direction in the future, you can cash out for near your purchase price and start again.
Your logic is relatively sound. My only counter is that many live cards do not fit the game's meta particularly well.

I personally believe the cheapest, best offensive team is going to come from the types of cards that nobody cares for much. While this does include Live cards, it also includes a fair amount of Future Legends, POTMs and All Stars, Special Editions (where the possibility of earning instead of buying helps depress the price), and cards of players who have better or more popular cards.

Here is a tentative list that includes rudimentary stats (formatted as one would find them on the Auction House), including the All Time and Last 7 bids (though only the latter, when available, will factor into the total cost). Additional talking points will be included where appropriate.


Catcher
PEAK C Biz Mackey (S) - 84 - 6.9k/9k
72/61/29/49/45 83/72/32/55/53 63/72/46 59@C

This is a sound choice if you only need one catcher, but when does this game ever allow us to use only one catcher? If the ground rules for this exercise allowed for 2, I would probably platoon a lefty who is very strong against RHP with a righty or switch hitter who has more even splits (since they will play against RHP more than their counterpart will play against LHP) and who has better defense for use as a replacement, which seems to help with fatigue management some. One possible example for this type of setup would be the 84 OVR Mickey Cochrane and the 85 OVR Thurman Munson, which would go for slightly over 11k together based on their last 7's.


Firstbase
1995 Edgar Martinez - 94 - 18.1k/17k
91/100/77/83/50 80/84/71/66/40 13/60/37 43@1B/20@3B

Same approximate price as the 84 OVR Sisler, so I figure I'd highlight this alternative that sacrifices contact and speed for power and eye. This choice is also a solid example of a card who price is depressed because everyone seems to prefer Peak Edgar. There are also many solid gold choices that come in at lower price points, such as the new 89 OVR Ripper Collins for 6k.


Secondbase
FL Nick Madrigal - 89 - 4.5k/4k
79/73/35/72/79 71/69/34/71/74 67/75/77 70@2B

I went back and forth over whether to go with Madrigal or the 95 OVR Chuck Knoblauch which goes for 14.3k. They are very similar, but the combination of having better eye and avoid k ratings, both of which I highly value, and being the only FL card to make my list - not to mention being 10k cheaper - ultimately tipped the scales. Peak Biggio (94 OVR) is also a solid competitor here, still going for 13k in spite of the new missions (and this looks legit and not a case of the last 7 not yet catching up).


Thirdbase
1964 Ken Boyer - 91 - 7.3k/7.3k
71/90/61/64/54 79/72/76/52/58 18/47/38 59@3B (59/59/72/53)

I was expecting to choose the Gold Special Edition Madlock, but I haven't been able to locate one to confirm the stats or the price point. The 95 OVR Honus Wagner for 25k who carries a rating at 3B also has some appeal here.


Shortstop
POTM SS Bo Bichette - 90 - 9k/9k
84/110/75/43/38 77/104/72/41/35 56/71/59 63@SS (81/55/64/63)

SS and CF both come at a premium, so it is a bit more difficult to find solid production without either thinking outside the box or finding a diamond in the rough, of which this card is the latter.


Left Field
POTM CF Mike Tauchman (L) - 82 - 5.8k/5k
75/95/64/52/40 85/108/68/56/45 70/69/57 19@LF/29@CF/17@RF

Maybe I should have gone with Peak Tim Raines (87 OVR, 10.8k Last 7), but instead I decided to highlight an unusual card. Tauchman was given terrible defensive ratings, but a lack of training at all 3 OF positions masks his true ability. He trains up to about 75 in LF, 65 in RF, and 40 in CF. Thanks for depressing his OVR and his price, I guess...


Center Field
LIVE RF Mookie Betts - 96 - 10k/6.5k
76/69/73/72/66 69/76/70/70/56 72/83/96 48@CF

Another premium position, but luckily the nicely balanced Betts comes with a rating here. He should get into the mid-60s here when fully trained.


Right Field
PEAK Tim Salmon - 96 - 29k/29k
96/63/83/91/45 91/78/78/73/39 9/13/6 58@RF

I love this card. This probably isn't the best choice based on my criteria, but I want to highlight a card that, when it comes to offense, compares favorably to cards that go for twice this amount. The defense, base running, and maybe the avoid k will probably scare some off and depress the price though.


Designated Hitter
1966 RF Frank Robinson - 95 - 11.5k/15k
77/75/89/77/45 75/72/87/62/44 21/61/27 45@LF/43@RF (50/87/36)

Basically, the DH was a battle between everyone else I was considering for RF. While I went with Robinson, I could have easily opted for 94 OVR Gavvy Cravath (17k), 91 OVR Goose Goslin (11.5k), or even someone like an 86 OVR Magglio Ordonez (up to 7k now it appears). Edit: Or the ubiquitous 87 OVR Heilmann that is already on everyone's radar (and at 7k, deservedly so).


Final Estimated Cost: 102.6k Points


Without a comprehensive listing of every card available, their ratings, and their current selling prices, this is a very rough list. I guarantee there are places to improve on it, especially considering I restricted myself to using cards rated Gold or higher. I also went with a middle ground approach, so spending more money could yield a stronger offense, while spending less would leave more of the budget for depth and pitching. Hopefully, I succeeded in my ultimate goal of drawing attention to some productive cards currently overlooked and undervalued by the community.
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Old 11-02-2019, 10:28 AM   #15
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If I started over with 175000 PP I would actually buy 175 packs and see what lineup I would get?


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Old 11-02-2019, 01:17 PM   #16
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If I started over with 175000 PP I would actually buy 175 packs and see what lineup I would get?


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I like this thought and may try it out of sheer boredom. Not to actually replace a current team, just to see what would be the best 25 cards to make up a roster from a given 175 packs.

Question: would this be just from the initial 175 packs, or would you be able to use points from selling the unused cards to buy more packs?
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Old 11-03-2019, 10:50 AM   #17
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Question: would this be just from the initial 175 packs, or would you be able to use points from selling the unused cards to buy more packs?
Buy more packs. Unless there is a glaring need that can be fixed easily through the AH.
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Old 11-03-2019, 11:01 AM   #18
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Buy more packs. Unless there is a glaring need that can be fixed easily through the AH.
The end result was pretty not great. A few low diamonds (Russell Martin, Nomo, Drysdale, live Greinke) and a should-be diamond (Hugh Duffy). The bullpen and rest of the OF is an absolute wasteland.

I should be able to recoup losses when the Dodgers missions come out with Nomo and Drysdale. That is, if there's anyone left playing the auction house in the dead period of winter between the World Series and the release of 21...
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