New Gambo DB Coming --- Addressing the Public's Complaints and Giving Them what they desire! - Page 2

Gambo · 07-28-2008, 06:30 PM

I have released it and sent it to Padres Fan for posting...

In all honesty I'm still a bit disappointed with how the players import as rookies as the game has them as being much too good. I'm going to do a sim tonight with draft enabled and the players importing after the season (November) to see what happens when the game recalculates he ratings... I'll tell you how it goes.

Gambo · 07-29-2008, 01:14 AM

Well I ran a the test league described above and the results are a good bit better than I was expecting. The biggest stars pretty much skipped the minors and jumped to the majors, however, most everybody else spent the 1st year or two as a reserve with limited playing time.

So far I'm thinking that the database does function best with the draft being turned on and it being held just after the season ends.

I ran this last test with the roles/usage based on real stats. Next I will run it using roles/usage based on ratings and see if it does any better.

clamel · 07-29-2008, 05:39 PM

Just a stupid Q.
With the draft turned on for lets say November will the players that comes into the draft actually end up in the team they first started with.

This is a enable/disable clause I have believed to be that if you select Historical enter year the draft must be disabled.
With the draft all teams can pick whatever player they like.

Enligt me !!!!

Gambo · 07-30-2008, 12:19 AM

That Sir is the main problem.

With draft enabled the players are not going to go to their original teams... This is what I feel is an important flaw. For some reason the way the game is set up is that it recalculates ratings based on actual statistics each year and THEN imports the rookies into the league. Due to this and the process the game creates historical rookies the guys have ratings higher than they should be in relationship to those around them.

Though my database highlights this issue it is evident in every database you use. You will constantly see 1st year players recieve more playing time than they should. When using databases (mine especially) you often see players have great statistics the year they import and then decline the 2nd year simply because the game never "re-rates" them according to everybody else in the league until after their 1st season.

clamel · 07-30-2008, 07:24 AM

Hoh hoh
I had the impression that ALL recalc couldn´t happen until the new stats and players was imported into the game. That´s in February as that´s when historical "rookies" or 1st year players in MLB imports into their first year teams.

Doing recalc before the new stats are imported sounds crazy. Any reason for this ?

With your DB it should be a fine thing to import players at their draft year of course, but then they should be ready for A or Rookie level that late summer - fall time.
Since OOTP really doesn´t care about Minors, with no stats and stuff for importing players in those levels it should be importing at the first year in the majors (and that should be February) WITH recalc happen in that moment of import...

Something I hope Markus will look over in versions to come

Gambo · 07-30-2008, 11:53 PM

Sitting duck says a the end of the playoffs. Prior to this thread I thought it was on January 1st...

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ndar-date.html

either way it is prior to when the rookies import...really silly

SittingDuck · 07-31-2008, 04:07 PM

My guess is that it is done for the issue of trading and player evaluation. Can't think of another reason, to be honest.

Just a guess.

SittingDuck · 08-02-2008, 01:09 AM

Wonder if Padresfan will post it soon?

Only real issue I ever had with the Gambo DB for ootp8 was that starter endurance ratings for rookies was so bad for guys like Palmer and Carlton, and they never rise up appropriately.

So I am currently using that DB with ootp9, and I see the same issue.

Sadly, it's a case of damned-if-you-do, and if you don't. Because with the regular Lahman, guys import as pros and what is the sense of that? You don't draft a guy who is already a pro! So that is ridiculous. Yet with the Gambo DB for ootp8, you're screwed as regards starters.

Let me point out here that I am talking about having recalc OFF.

There really isn't a way to appropriately play the historical leagues with any DB and have recalc off, it seems.

SittingDuck · 08-02-2008, 12:25 PM

The more I look at it, the more I think it tends to be an individual issue for different players, rather than a DB-as-a-whole issue. Palmer imports as 3/10 and Carlton as 6/10. Of course, their endurance never increases.

But Seaver, Ryan and other powerhouses import with proper high endurance levels.

This leads me to believe there is something going on in the case of Palmer, and to a lesser degree, Carlton. Not sure what it could be. I'll take a look at the ootp8 Gambo DB and see if I can discern anything.

Other than that, I have to say that playing with recalc OFF and talent change set at 40 (which is a 20% chance of change), the game is seriously enjoyable. I am still fiddling around with the batter/pitcher development speeds (I didn't like the .5 setting that, I believe, RonCo recommends - waaaay too slow for this league). But with the recommended aging settings, I am seeing really interesting declines, or at times lack of declines. Mick bit it at around 34 (diminished to average), but Mays and Aaron are totally hacking the ball in their mid-30's!

LUB IT!!!!

Greatgrampa · 08-02-2008, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SittingDuck

The more I look at it, the more I think it tends to be an individual issue for different players, rather than a DB-as-a-whole issue. Palmer imports as 3/10 and Carlton as 6/10. Of course, their endurance never increases.

But Seaver, Ryan and other powerhouses import with proper high endurance levels.

This leads me to believe there is something going on in the case of Palmer, and to a lesser degree, Carlton. Not sure what it could be. I'll take a look at the ootp8 Gambo DB and see if I can discern anything.

Other than that, I have to say that playing with recalc OFF and talent change set at 40 (which is a 20% chance of change), the game is seriously enjoyable. I am still fiddling around with the batter/pitcher development speeds (I didn't like the .5 setting that, I believe, RonCo recommends - waaaay too slow for this league). But with the recommended aging settings, I am seeing really interesting declines, or at times lack of declines. Mick bit it at around 34 (diminished to average), but Mays and Aaron are totally hacking the ball in their mid-30's!

LUB IT!!!!

Is there any way you could send me all of your settings in your game or perhaps send me your league so I could look at it? I am having a real problem with knowing what settings do what and what to set them at. I also shut off recalc because I don't want every year of my league to be the same as the real major leagues. But I just can't seem to find the proper settings needed to make my historical leagues believable.

That is probably asking a lot and you may not have time to do that or maybe the lg file is too big to send via an email. Don't know but I sure could use some help in the area of settings for historical leagues....

Thanks in advance or if someone else could help me out here, I would really appreciate it.

PadresFan · 08-02-2008, 02:55 PM

Posted!!

SittingDuck · 08-02-2008, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greatgrampa

Is there any way you could send me all of your settings in your game or perhaps send me your league so I could look at it? I am having a real problem with knowing what settings do what and what to set them at. I also shut off recalc because I don't want every year of my league to be the same as the real major leagues. But I just can't seem to find the proper settings needed to make my historical leagues believable.

That is probably asking a lot and you may not have time to do that or maybe the lg file is too big to send via an email. Don't know but I sure could use some help in the area of settings for historical leagues....

Thanks in advance or if someone else could help me out here, I would really appreciate it.

Paps, I can help you out here and would be happy to do so. I've been starting my league in '62 - you can apply the settings to whatever league you want. The only issue with the league - as I've stated - is the starter endurance levels aren't always - actually rarely - correct to the player's career status or performance.

Now, you can play this league with either the Lahman DB (which I don't want to do) or the Gambo DB. I haven't used the newest Gambo DB (which Padresfan just posted) but I want to give it a whirl.

Let me do that quick here a bit and see what goes on with the endurance levels. Then I'll create some screensnaps that will help you see what to do with your league! OK?

SittingDuck · 08-02-2008, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PadresFan

Posted!!

Thanks, man! Giving it a whirlie now!

clamel · 08-02-2008, 04:05 PM

DL it, but please that readme file.
What´s up it shows as a Word-doc in the zipfile, but with a .docx hmmm

Unzipped I can´t open it, it´s just crap text.
Could someone make a normal standard text-file or word document PLEASE

SittingDuck · 08-02-2008, 05:07 PM

I don't know. But I installed to a separate folder and just navigated to there. You can choose the MLB-only Master, or the regular Master (which I think has all Negro and minors players Gambo mentioned he'd include). Make sure to choose neutralized stats (and I also choose 'remaining career').

So I've done my first season with this....

BEST DAMN STAT LEVELS EVER!!

Yes, I am shouting. And rightly so. Best thing I've ever experienced with OOTP-anything.

And I am checking, but I think I've found the workaround for the endurance issue. That in combo with the new Gambo DB might be, hopefully, the ultimate for me. We'll see how things work out on my tests.

SittingDuck · 08-02-2008, 10:13 PM

Book is still out on the endurance calculation issue. However, here is a conversion of the docx into doc format for clamelmaniac.

SittingDuck · 08-02-2008, 11:13 PM

Ehhh..... No answers for Pitcher Endurance, even with this DB. The game just doesn't properly import pitchers at such a youthful age. They import fine with the Lahman DB, but don't import well with Gambo.

By that I mean they import very poorly for use in a non-recalc league. For recalc, I am sure they are fine. But what is the point of using a league where the players have to be groomed (Gambo), but ultimately are groomed via recalc? You could have negative-rating coaches in minors positions and they'd still progress since recalc makes the world perfect every off-season.

Thanks for all the hard work, Gambo-man. It looks like you did a ton. Unfortunately, I cannot benefit from it, nor can other non-recalc'ers, unless they don't care about the endurance thing. It seems to be a game-issue, and I raised a thread on it in the beta forum. Don't know if it will go anywhere, but whatever.

clamel · 08-03-2008, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SittingDuck

Book is still out on the endurance calculation issue. However, here is a conversion of the docx into doc format for clamelmaniac.

Thanks Sir, now I can read it. It hurts sitting on an ole Office 2000 version, but I just got some sort of converter installed and BINGO that worked.

However I must ask on this SUPER DB....

Players that played in the majors are "tracked" back to their first year in the minors. So like very very young Angels OF-DH Juan Rivera it´s way back. Correct... ? The first two years he played as Catcher in Texas Rookie minors. Gambo starts him of 1996 as a Yankee ?
However it feels more correct, but what is the criteria for this. Rivera first played pro-ball in 1995-96 in Texas organization, but Gambo got him as a Yankee in 1996 as an OF.
I think Gambo got it correct but please tell me what made these decisions and how many are there.

Also in case of players making their Major League debut this year 2008, we have none of them in this DB.
I was wondering if they should be added since many started as Rivera many years ago in the minors. If I add them I need to add them BOTH in real csv-files AND neutralized csv-files (recalculated).
Am I correct. This way Jose Arredondo for one could be pitching in the majors in 2006 or 2007. In 2006 he pitches mostly as a starter in the minors but now he is a super reliever.

Perhaps something to add to the Gambo DB. After all the DB has first years in minors as KEY ingredience...

Whatever it´s a beauty of DB and something to build on.

clamel · 08-03-2008, 06:15 PM

Surprise surprise

I get a Runtime error, still with my 9.1.2 version
I tested old DB and such and they all work.
Tested both master.csv files in Gambos too, but start years have been 2004,2005,2006 just to have a look at some late years as starting date.
Of course selected Neutralized stats,remaining years, include history....

I can´t believe this to be anything more than something wrong the the DB, but then again who knows

SittingDuck · 08-03-2008, 07:04 PM

DB worked for me. I renamed the Master (MLB-only).csv to Masters.csv (renaming the other one at the same time to Master (Negro).csv) and it works for me. Don't know what to say.

Now, I don't think the year would be an issue, but you might want to see if an earlier year works. If so, then it could be something about the DB in the latter years.

Other than the Master.csv file, I haven't done any copy/paste of any other files.

07-28-2008, 06:30 PM	#21
Gambo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 2,388	I have released it and sent it to Padres Fan for posting... In all honesty I'm still a bit disappointed with how the players import as rookies as the game has them as being much too good. I'm going to do a sim tonight with draft enabled and the players importing after the season (November) to see what happens when the game recalculates he ratings... I'll tell you how it goes. __________________ *Give me league evolution with historical imports!!!* OOTP MODS: Historical Face Gen Project, Spritze/Gambo Database, OOTP Stadium Chart and Ballpark Images, MLB Compiled Uniform & Logo Pack available at... http://www.ootpmods.com

07-29-2008, 01:14 AM	#22
Gambo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 2,388	Well I ran a the test league described above and the results are a good bit better than I was expecting. The biggest stars pretty much skipped the minors and jumped to the majors, however, most everybody else spent the 1st year or two as a reserve with limited playing time. So far I'm thinking that the database does function best with the draft being turned on and it being held just after the season ends. I ran this last test with the roles/usage based on real stats. Next I will run it using roles/usage based on ratings and see if it does any better. __________________ *Give me league evolution with historical imports!!!* OOTP MODS: Historical Face Gen Project, Spritze/Gambo Database, OOTP Stadium Chart and Ballpark Images, MLB Compiled Uniform & Logo Pack available at... http://www.ootpmods.com

07-30-2008, 12:19 AM	#24
Gambo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 2,388	That Sir is the main problem. With draft enabled the players are not going to go to their original teams... This is what I feel is an important flaw. For some reason the way the game is set up is that it recalculates ratings based on actual statistics each year and THEN imports the rookies into the league. Due to this and the process the game creates historical rookies the guys have ratings higher than they should be in relationship to those around them. Though my database highlights this issue it is evident in every database you use. You will constantly see 1st year players recieve more playing time than they should. When using databases (mine especially) you often see players have great statistics the year they import and then decline the 2nd year simply because the game never "re-rates" them according to everybody else in the league until after their 1st season. __________________ *Give me league evolution with historical imports!!!* OOTP MODS: Historical Face Gen Project, Spritze/Gambo Database, OOTP Stadium Chart and Ballpark Images, MLB Compiled Uniform & Logo Pack available at... http://www.ootpmods.com

07-30-2008, 11:53 PM	#26
Gambo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 2,388	Sitting duck says a the end of the playoffs. Prior to this thread I thought it was on January 1st... http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ndar-date.html either way it is prior to when the rookies import...really silly __________________ *Give me league evolution with historical imports!!!* OOTP MODS: Historical Face Gen Project, Spritze/Gambo Database, OOTP Stadium Chart and Ballpark Images, MLB Compiled Uniform & Logo Pack available at... http://www.ootpmods.com

08-02-2008, 11:13 PM	#37
SittingDuck All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 1,834	Ehhh..... No answers for Pitcher Endurance, even with this DB. The game just doesn't properly import pitchers at such a youthful age. They import fine with the Lahman DB, but don't import well with Gambo. By that I mean they import very poorly for use in a non-recalc league. For recalc, I am sure they are fine. But what is the point of using a league where the players have to be groomed (Gambo), but ultimately are groomed via recalc? You could have negative-rating coaches in minors positions and they'd still progress since recalc makes the world perfect every off-season. Thanks for all the hard work, Gambo-man. It looks like you did a ton. Unfortunately, I cannot benefit from it, nor can other non-recalc'ers, unless they don't care about the endurance thing. It seems to be a game-issue, and I raised a thread on it in the beta forum. Don't know if it will go anywhere, but whatever. Last edited by SittingDuck; 08-02-2008 at 11:18 PM.

07-29-2008, 05:39 PM	#23
clamel All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Across the Pond Posts: 1,033	Just a stupid Q. With the draft turned on for lets say November will the players that comes into the draft actually end up in the team they first started with. This is a enable/disable clause I have believed to be that if you select Historical enter year the draft must be disabled. With the draft all teams can pick whatever player they like. Enligt me !!!!

07-30-2008, 07:24 AM	#25
clamel All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Across the Pond Posts: 1,033	Hoh hoh I had the impression that ALL recalc couldn´t happen until the new stats and players was imported into the game. That´s in February as that´s when historical "rookies" or 1st year players in MLB imports into their first year teams. Doing recalc before the new stats are imported sounds crazy. Any reason for this ? With your DB it should be a fine thing to import players at their draft year of course, but then they should be ready for A or Rookie level that late summer - fall time. Since OOTP really doesn´t care about Minors, with no stats and stuff for importing players in those levels it should be importing at the first year in the majors (and that should be February) WITH recalc happen in that moment of import... Something I hope Markus will look over in versions to come

07-31-2008, 04:07 PM	#27
SittingDuck All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 1,834	My guess is that it is done for the issue of trading and player evaluation. Can't think of another reason, to be honest. Just a guess.

08-02-2008, 01:09 AM	#28
SittingDuck All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 1,834	Wonder if Padresfan will post it soon? Only real issue I ever had with the Gambo DB for ootp8 was that starter endurance ratings for rookies was so bad for guys like Palmer and Carlton, and they never rise up appropriately. So I am currently using that DB with ootp9, and I see the same issue. Sadly, it's a case of damned-if-you-do, and if you don't. Because with the regular Lahman, guys import as pros and what is the sense of that? You don't draft a guy who is already a pro! So that is ridiculous. Yet with the Gambo DB for ootp8, you're screwed as regards starters. Let me point out here that I am talking about having recalc OFF. There really isn't a way to appropriately play the historical leagues with any DB and have recalc off, it seems.

08-02-2008, 12:25 PM	#29
SittingDuck All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 1,834	The more I look at it, the more I think it tends to be an individual issue for different players, rather than a DB-as-a-whole issue. Palmer imports as 3/10 and Carlton as 6/10. Of course, their endurance never increases. But Seaver, Ryan and other powerhouses import with proper high endurance levels. This leads me to believe there is something going on in the case of Palmer, and to a lesser degree, Carlton. Not sure what it could be. I'll take a look at the ootp8 Gambo DB and see if I can discern anything. Other than that, I have to say that playing with recalc OFF and talent change set at 40 (which is a 20% chance of change), the game is seriously enjoyable. I am still fiddling around with the batter/pitcher development speeds (I didn't like the .5 setting that, I believe, RonCo recommends - waaaay too slow for this league). But with the recommended aging settings, I am seeing really interesting declines, or at times lack of declines. Mick bit it at around 34 (diminished to average), but Mays and Aaron are totally hacking the ball in their mid-30's! LUB IT!!!!

08-02-2008, 02:55 PM	#31
PadresFan All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 1,151	Posted!!

08-02-2008, 04:05 PM	#34
clamel All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Across the Pond Posts: 1,033	DL it, but please that readme file. What´s up it shows as a Word-doc in the zipfile, but with a .docx hmmm Unzipped I can´t open it, it´s just crap text. Could someone make a normal standard text-file or word document PLEASE

08-02-2008, 05:07 PM	#35
SittingDuck All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 1,834	I don't know. But I installed to a separate folder and just navigated to there. You can choose the MLB-only Master, or the regular Master (which I think has all Negro and minors players Gambo mentioned he'd include). Make sure to choose neutralized stats (and I also choose 'remaining career'). So I've done my first season with this.... BEST DAMN STAT LEVELS EVER!! Yes, I am shouting. And rightly so. Best thing I've ever experienced with OOTP-anything. And I am checking, but I think I've found the workaround for the endurance issue. That in combo with the new Gambo DB might be, hopefully, the ultimate for me. We'll see how things work out on my tests.

08-03-2008, 06:15 PM	#39
clamel All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Across the Pond Posts: 1,033	Surprise surprise I get a Runtime error, still with my 9.1.2 version I tested old DB and such and they all work. Tested both master.csv files in Gambos too, but start years have been 2004,2005,2006 just to have a look at some late years as starting date. Of course selected Neutralized stats,remaining years, include history.... I can´t believe this to be anything more than something wrong the the DB, but then again who knows

08-03-2008, 07:04 PM	#40
SittingDuck All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 1,834	DB worked for me. I renamed the Master (MLB-only).csv to Masters.csv (renaming the other one at the same time to Master (Negro).csv) and it works for me. Don't know what to say. Now, I don't think the year would be an issue, but you might want to see if an earlier year works. If so, then it could be something about the DB in the latter years. Other than the Master.csv file, I haven't done any copy/paste of any other files.