Need Help With Pitch Ratings

[Eugene Church]

Why do some pitchers have a number in the Fastball section and some pitchers do not have a number?
To me, it looks like both of the pitchers have velocity for a real good fastball... but one has a "0" rating and the other has a "137" rating.

What rating do you have to have on a pitch to be an effective pitch?

If a pitcher has a 100 rating on a pitch and another one has a 200 rating on the pitch, is his pitch twice as good as the first one.
Is a 100 rating on a pitch just considered to be an average pitch?

The pitcher on the left side appears to have less quality pitches than on the one on the right... can the pitcher on the left be more effective than the one the right?... in my league the one on the left pitches far more innings than the other one... and his stats are better... why?

I see pitchers with great numbers on teams, but the AI ignores them for a pitcher with lesser numbers... it is confusing.

I realize stuff, movement and control are also part of the ratings... would like to have your advice and knowledge concerning the pitching ratings... I don't have a good understanding.

Would appreciate some help in this area of the game... I see players with great ratings that don't seem to play much... both pitchers and position players... the AI will play a lesser pitcher or position player over a guy with higher ratings... why is this?

[Dyzalot]

I believe that the cutter is the first guy's "fastball".

[Eugene Church]

Here are the ratings and the career ratings for the two pitchers.

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by Dyzalot

I believe that the cutter is the first guy's "fastball".

Yes, you may be right... Dark Horse told me that there are three types of fastballs used by pitchers... cutters (fastball-slider hybrid), sliders (2-seamer) and fastball (four-seamers).

Here's what Dark Horse posted on the Dynasty Forum for me:
"First off, the fastball, sinker and cutter are all variation of a fastball. OOTP's fastball is the four seam fastball (the one that is thrown up in the zone), the sinker is a two seam, thrown low and then the cutter is sort of a fastball/slider hybrid.

In OOTP, usually, and maybe always, pitchers will have at least one of these. In real life pitchers will sometimes throw two fastballs."

[Déjà Bru]

You could learn something new everyday about OOTPB, it seems. I was vaguely aware that fastball, sinker and cutter are all variation of a fastball but I didn't know how the game handled it in particular. Thanks for asking the question.

[fuzzy_patters]

Part of the difference might be the the first pitcher has amazing control. Pitchers in the game, as in real life, are more effective when they are ahead in the count. The other thing to consider is that Markus posted at one point that the game does consider pitch types to determine effectiveness against different types of hitters. The first pitcher has a lot of pitches that are effective against opposite handed hitters (changeup, cutter, screwball), which is going to take a way a lot of platoon advantages against him.

[Dark Horse]

i followed this thread over here to see i could get some others insights. And i did!

Also, i agree with the comment concerning the the control ratings of the two pitchers. That high control rating will make a big difference. Also, note that Player 1 has a much higher stamina rating which means although Player 2 may be the better pitcher in the first inning, in the latter innings Player 1 would
still maintain his abilities while Player 2 wilts.

Also, looking a the two players game logs, both walked a lot of batters. Player 2 more so than Player 1. But you would not expect Player 1 to walk three and four batters in a 4 inning spring training start. i would check the team's strategy page to see what is the setting for pitch around and maybe intentional walk.

Also, i would look at the defensive ability rating for that team's catchers. IIRC that has to do with the catcher's ablity to frame pitches. Player 2 appears to have slightly above average control. He shouldn't be walking that many guys... unless under strategy the team has a slow hook setting for starters and team is leaving him out there when he is gassed.

[NoOne]

The raw ratings are only part of it. if you turn 100% accuracy on, the ratings you see in the profile are what matter. more specifically the overall stuff is what is plugged in when needed.

by looking at those and fiddling with the raw ratings in the editor, you can see how imporant each factor is to the resulting ratings you see in the profile. (i believe it sums it up in the profile editor ina 200-scale, you can also just do the math for your scale and avoid the whole flipping screens to see, ignore 201-255 for scale conversions. "200" is key, and if your scale includes a zero, don't forget to count it)

High velo will make all raw stuff ratings better in the profile. it will likely increase fastball(s) more so than a curveball's rating, but will stil improve the curveball too. rising tide, but doesn't lift all boats equally.

all sorts of things impact the overall stuff. it's noted in the manual and a side note in the profile editor too, i think. simply change one thing and go see if it changes stuff ratings, and you know it is involved.

movement -- likely helps reduce hr/9 and whatver else you can causally link to movement of a pitch through research you find onthe web -- they likely read and used the same sources. i'd assume this is more useful for a pitcher with higher ratings with crooked pitches, not unlike how i described velo above, but in reverse.. this is a guess, unlike the velo explanation above. (doesn't impact stuff)

it'd be interesting to hear form people that play in drastically different statistical environments. like how important is movement when you league only has 500hr instead of 6000? i'd bet this will drastically impact which ratings are most important for your league.

Control -- bb/9, et al. there's some minimum you'll want... in the end i rely on the resulting bb/9 more than the control rating to determine if it is good enough for that 1 specific pitcher being evaluated. even though overall stuff is the plug-in value, something must be adding flavor, because not all pitcher with the same stuff and everything else, but with different pitches result the same way relative to expected volatility. that's a guess, but it seems apparent without counting.

i also think it is a bit more important to a SP than an RP. i think the mechanics of stamina greatly impact this for a starter. they may have sufficient control for 2-3 innings, but eventually it chips down too low due to stamina effect and is a problem. extreme talent can delay that a bit, but if it does, age wil likely be the straw that breaks the camels back prematurely, reducing their value due to increased risks of the like.



about the fastball stuff:

i don't think this happened in previous versions? maybe '19 too?

at some point in history i think they all had at least some "Fastball" rating

which makes sense. you don't have to learn to throw a four-seamer, i hope. and, hopefully you don't throw it often for a strike, lol, because they'll hammer that flat piece of %#$.

you throw that to some idiot with no plate discipline at his shoulders... then laugh as he can't hit it.

in the end it's mostly about overall stuff.. but individual pitches must impact it in some fashion due to how different a knuckleballers's BABIP ag. and other resulting stats are. they throw more efficiently and go deeper into games too, because they rely less on K/9 and more from weakly hit balls (ie low BABIP ag) than other pitchers.

it adds up to maybe a bit over a 1/3rd extra inning per outing compared to a similar pitcher in all other respects except having a knuckleball. (at the high end of quality, who cares about the middle or low end? always compare to a baseline you want, not some junk)

[Eugene Church]

Thanks for the replies... much appreciate the help.