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Old 02-21-2020, 04:31 PM   #1
t-bone shuffle
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Injury Proneness ?

Any idea if it's possible for a player to improve his Injury Proneness status? Say from Fragile to Normal, etc.?

I ask because I will occasionally draft a Pitcher with the Fragile status in a late round because he would have a + rating in a category or two. I'll then be very cautious with their usage for a couple of seasons before deciding what's next. I don't monitor the injury status after drafting closely enough to know if it's had any effect. Seems like the proneness status could improve occasionally if the player goes an extended period of time without injury.

While I'm at it, does the Team Trainer have any effect on minor leaguers?

If not, wouldn't this be something to effect in the future and maybe re-term the position/personnel type to something like "Organizational Training/Medical staff? Just a thought.

Appreciate any help/thoughts on this.
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Old 02-23-2020, 10:30 PM   #2
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Assuming it isn't scouting related, if that can even be muddled by it? maybe, TCR can hit it?

although, i can't recall it ever improving. i too don't pay close attention except for avoiding its inevitable fall.

i'd be looking to trade any 'flier' draftee that panned out with inevitably pending injury issues the moment they have value. as long as you don't rely on him, using him in your plans isn't necessarily bad either, and in some cases may be wise. if he's a star in that context, he's only useful while cheap.

you can't give large chunks of player budget to paper tigers that are always rehabbing and not pay a heavy price of a less successful team.

if a low draft pick gets hurt, oh well. you weren't counting on them for anythign but gravy anyway and they are all generally horrible after just a few rounds.

team trainer impacts what his profiles shows.. prevention of injuries and recovery etc. so, i'd say yeah.

the team doctor heads the staff, just like your scouting director heads his dept. it doesn't mention this in either case, but we can assume.

with such a conflict of interest, real life players never rely on the team doctor for anything more than the superficial and for drug prescriptions. they definteyl shouldn't listen to some associate's degree level trainer. they'll probably tell you to burn and ear candle to cleanse your bad thetons or some inane thing like that.

you can't impact likelyhood of injuries beyond proper eating habits, stretching and just generally taking care of yourself. if they haven't gotten working out to a sicence yet, they aren't trying very hard, or they are going about it in a blind and random way.
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Old 02-24-2020, 10:37 AM   #3
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In playing hundreds of seasons (mostly in GM mode), I don't recall ever seeing a player's injury rating improve. I'm likely to trade away a better Fragile player for a nearly-as-good Normal or Durable one. As soon as a player suffers a major injury, I start thinking about how I'm going to deal him. Especially with pitchers and arm problems, you know it's only getting worse.
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Old 02-24-2020, 11:56 AM   #4
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Thanks for the reply's.

I doubted that the proneness rating could do anything other than decrease/worsen, though it's still not clear to me if this a scouted rating or not.

Also I guess for me, "proneness" jumbles the matter, but I also cant think of a better term. When I think "injury prone", I definitely feel it's a perception rather than fact. Obviously, it can become a "fact" at some point (see: Price/David, Paxton/James, etc), but with others it's a perception/potential based on a shorter history (see: Correa/Carlos).

Regardless, these are minor concerns. Unless someone tells me they've seen otherwise, I'm going with "no" on the possibility of improving this rating. I have had occasional success with holding players (mostly position) at the fragile level for most of their career by doing things such as DH'ing, avoiding high likelihood injury positions (really just SS, 2B) and dialing back their baserunning aggressiveness to practically none.

As for the Training Staff's effect on the entire organization I'd be grateful for more input. It certainly should be a factor for players at all levels.

Thanks again.
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Old 02-24-2020, 12:49 PM   #5
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even though you only see ~4 labels, injury proneness is a 1-200 scale for 5 categories, including an overall (doing this from memory, exact details may be off, but you get the point)

so, not all "normals" are the same. it will be split up evenly based on number of labels you see in profile. spot check a few players and if the label matches up to how large that interval should be, you know it's 100% accurate. if 5 labels, than 1-40, 41-80, etc.

if you think it's cheating, do it in a temp league you create and delete. then you don't learn anything about a player in your league. you just learn how the game works, which is a reasonable thing to expect.

the team doctor has to work for all the levels. there's no other doctor on staff. When you go to MiL staff screens it only shows the coaches - no scout, no doctor. that doesn't mean they don't function there. the scout still works, so the doctor is likely plug-n-play too. if this were a bet in vegas, i'd wager very very large sums of money on it being true. i'd risk homelessness, lol.

Last edited by NoOne; 02-24-2020 at 12:51 PM.
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Old 02-24-2020, 12:53 PM   #6
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I'm pretty sure this is something that will never improve but only go down.

As for trainers, yes they do have an effect, per the manual

Quote:
Trainers
Traubers are rated on their ability to heal and prevent injuries to specific areas of the body. A higher heal rating means players with those injuries will heal more quickly, possibly more quickly than the original estimate. A higher prevent rating means players are less likely to get those injuries in the first place. See Injuries and Fatigue for more information about injuries in OOTP.
And yes, this is a direct copy\paste from the v20 manual, Traubers included

In my game where I play 'em all out and have an excellent trainer this seems to work. I normally have a short IL though I can't say I've noticed players coming back sooner than originally thought . However that could be the by product of having a small sample size of injured players since my trainer is excellent in preventing the injuries that would give me a larger sample size

Having said that my excellent trainer does not stop all injuries and fragile players are still a crap shoot, as they should be. I currently have the #1 rated pitcher in the league at only 24 yrs old, fragile of course, out for the season after making only 2 starts.
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Old 02-25-2020, 12:03 PM   #7
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Thanks for all of the input.

I've come to the conclusion that the possibility that a players Injury Proneness can improve is a hard "no".

As for the Team Trainer and its effects on minor league players, it's not so clear to me. The manual does not mention anything with regard to the Trainer having an organizational effect. So, maybe the powers that be will check in at some point and clarify this.

Either way, this stuff is really minutia when considering all of the elements this game covers. I was just hoping that choosing the occasional late round draftee with a Fragile rating didn't always have to be a huge red flag because a particular player caught my eye. Which lead to this abbreviated rabbit hole.
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Old 02-25-2020, 03:29 PM   #8
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I believe I've seen a player in his prime go from a durable rating to a rating of Iron Man. I have no idea though if it was a real change or just one my scout observed. Its pretty rare if it is a thing.
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Old 02-25-2020, 07:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyzalot View Post
I believe I've seen a player in his prime go from a durable rating to a rating of Iron Man. I have no idea though if it was a real change or just one my scout observed. Its pretty rare if it is a thing.
Ah, yes. I hadn't even thought about this as I was focusing on whether a fragile player could, well, stop being so darn fragile.
But yes, I have absolutely had durable players bump up to Iron Man status in their prime, at least for a few seasons. I am less positive, at the moment, whether I have seen players with the normal rating get the bump up to durable. And I'm almost sure I've never seen a fragile player head in any direction other than towards wrecked.

Some part of me wants to believe that a player who profiles a fragile as a young player can occasionally become more durable as they mature (IRL). My brain says Paul Molitor is an example. But when I actually look at his career games played totals by year, it seems like he sort of yo-yo'ed in this respect. Which I guess the game already captures pretty well since fragile players, especially fragile position players on a team with a great trainer, can have lucky seasons where they stay mostly healthy.
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Old 02-26-2020, 12:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyzalot View Post
I believe I've seen a player in his prime go from a durable rating to a rating of Iron Man. I have no idea though if it was a real change or just one my scout observed. Its pretty rare if it is a thing.
Good point, I've seen this as well. And to Birdwatcher's point, I have had position players have full careers, with only a couple of injury shortened seasons who held at the Fragile proneness level their entire career.

I think that with pitchers it's very unlikely, which feels pretty realistic to me.
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Old 02-29-2020, 07:59 PM   #11
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i think your fragile guy got lucky. occasionally they'll have .. i don't want to say long enough career, but enough games per year that they don't look like they are made of paper. just like a very durable guy can have a ton of injuries in any 1 data point.

it's all rates... higher rates, lower rates... outcomes of one individual can buck those trends, but its not something to draw a conclusion from.

i wouldn't doubt pitchers get hurt more... pretty sure that's RL data.. and they try to mimic that. anything you can research about injury distribution between batters and pitchers online (not conjecture, but crunched data) will likely be close to what ootp does.

anything that can be counted with accuracy, you can likely compare OotP to RL and expect it to be similar in proportion or however it is modeled in game -- possibly not specifically, but comes out in the end numbers properly even so.

RL SP seem to break down like crazy based on my eye, but i wouldn't rely on it. i may not bet the house onthis one, but i'd feel confident. position players may get hurt more frequently or similar rate, but days missed has to be longer for pitchers.

After a timmy john, you can expect a 2nd one in ~7 years. Some get one done in the minors the moment they see any potential issues, lol.

2000-3000ip, you can expect them to have major shoulder issues or something, and they aren't treated likel total dogs anymore, either. in the past, it was career over, because you threw 300ip/season and 150-160pitches a night, lol. (plus, all the booze, amphetemines and cigarrettes you can handle, beacuase what are you a nancy?)
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Old 03-01-2020, 12:37 AM   #12
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The only guys I've had play a lot of games with a fragile injury rating are first basemen. it works exceptionally well if you have the DH and can just use him at DH once or twice a week. Using them that way, I've had guys go several years with 150+ games started per year.
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