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Old 02-21-2020, 11:44 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Brad K View Post
Some stuff is just for flavor and isn't nutritional Like the info on who's hot and who's not. And the idea a not programmed for a bad day pitcher gets upset when hammered.
I think I'll take the manual, that the developers wrote, over your best guess
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Old 02-21-2020, 10:21 PM   #22
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I hope you don't mind I'll take what they didn't write. An explanation of the stuff needed to make the "upset pitcher" feature work. Until then I'm going to look at it the same was as the PBP script that says the catcher goes to the mound to calm down the pitcher after a bad call by the umpire.
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Old 02-22-2020, 09:38 AM   #23
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I hope you don't mind I'll take what they didn't write. An explanation of the stuff needed to make the "upset pitcher" feature work. Until then I'm going to look at it the same was as the PBP script that says the catcher goes to the mound to calm down the pitcher after a bad call by the umpire.
Well, the manual does say that the player personality morale model does influence performance. Not hard to use some part of that model in game to have some variance.

Feel free to think what you want Can you think of other things that the manual says you,as a player, can do that have no effect? Why even mention a calming effect if it does not exist in the game? They even go so far as to mention the calming effect first in the explanation box ,"This option is usually used" highlighting it over the, secondary mention of, "This option also helps", that talks about using up time. Wouldn't it be easier to just leave that blurb out of the explanation?

Instead of
Quote:
Visit Mound The manager visits the pitcher on the mound. This option is usually used to try to calm down the pitcher if he has gotten in trouble. This option also helps use up some time if you are warming up a relief pitcher, and gives the manager a better idea of how tired his pitcher is
They could have just done this...
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Visit Mound The manager visits the pitcher on the mound. This option helps use up some time if you are warming up a relief pitcher, and gives the manager a better idea of how tired his pitcher is
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Old 02-24-2020, 06:42 AM   #24
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Like the info on who's hot and who's not.
My impression from playing is that hot/cold impacts future performance
My impression from reading the forums is that it does not.

As for mound visits and the topic of this thread, players have respond to success and respond to failure ratings. Maybe these influence this situation. A pitcher with a poor respond to failure rating might be more likely to perform poorly after a bad inning than a pitcher with a good respond to failure rating
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Old 02-24-2020, 08:53 AM   #25
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The "mound visit" button does have a calming effect on the pitcher. I obviously don't keep stats on it, but I am convinced that pitchers do better against the next one or two batters coming up after they had the Riot Act read to them in front of 30,000 fans.

The bad days thing is really just semantics. They may not be programmed to have one. But sometimes the schmuck of the day can't get anybody out. There's no point in leaving him in to suck up 16 runs. Then I've seen them throw a 3-hitter five days later. OOTP copies real life rather well in that regard. Check out Jacob deGrom's 40-pitch first-and-only inning one or two years ago. He was then basically unbeatable the rest of the year.

Back to the original question; four runs in the first inning is rough. But it depends. Three bloop singles and a homer is not the same as a walk, a hit batter, and three screaming doubles. In a game against a fourth-place team in May I won't remove that pitcher. In a game in a pennant race in September I probably will if he puts the leadoff man in the second on base. In Game 7 I will shoot him between the lights before that fourth run crosses home plate.
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Old 02-24-2020, 03:28 PM   #26
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Well, I recently left in a RP who gave up six runs without an out then got three consecutive outs without a mound visit. Some of you will be happy to know I lost the game!!!
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Old 02-24-2020, 03:51 PM   #27
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So why don't AI mangers visit the mound?
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Old 02-24-2020, 04:05 PM   #28
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Gotta love this game.😉
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Old 02-24-2020, 05:42 PM   #29
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So why don't AI mangers visit the mound?
How do you know they don't?
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Old 02-24-2020, 07:02 PM   #30
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How do you know they don't?
Wouldn't it show in the PBP like a catchers visit does? Certainly manager mound visits couldn't have been left out accidentally.
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Old 02-24-2020, 07:05 PM   #31
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Maybe all this calming and morale stuff only works on fictional players. After all, real life players are supposed to function in the vicinity of their actual ability. Wouldn't want Bob Gibson by chance to get shelled in his first three games, lose all his confidence, and spend the rest of his career as a mop up pitcher.
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Old 02-24-2020, 10:36 PM   #32
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Maybe all this calming and morale stuff only works on fictional players. After all, real life players are supposed to function in the vicinity of their actual ability. Wouldn't want Bob Gibson by chance to get shelled in his first three games, lose all his confidence, and spend the rest of his career as a mop up pitcher.
That depends on how you set up your historical league. If you use the "Recalc player ratings based on real stats after each year" then yes, they should be close to their real life abilities.

Per the manual

Quote:
player ratings based on real stats after each year

Forces OOTP to recalculate player ratings (both actual and potential) after each season based on how the players performed in real life. For example, if in the next season in real life a player performed at a much higher level, his OOTP ratings will increase automatically. If this is enabled it overrides the potential ratings calculation method chosen in the Advanced Options of the Historical Game Creation Wizard. If this is not enabled, players will improve normally according to their OOTP potential ratings.
If you don't use that option then your real player do actually become fictional in that they are a bag of ratings, with a real player name, that will improve as any fictional player. Kind of like the 2020 roster set that comes with the game. All of those players are exposed to the player development engine of OOTP. On the first day of your season those players (bag of ratings with a real name) take on an OOTP life of their own.
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Old 02-25-2020, 05:34 PM   #33
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Why would anyone play historical and let the named players degrade into pure fiction? Knowing the future for sure is bad but there are settings where players are kind of what they were real life, within the range of plausible possibility A RL All Star isn't going to be a life time bench player but he might be capable of starting only for under 500 teams.
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Old 02-25-2020, 06:28 PM   #34
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Why would anyone play historical and let the named players degrade into pure fiction? Knowing the future for sure is bad but there are settings where players are kind of what they were real life, within the range of plausible possibility A RL All Star isn't going to be a life time bench player but he might be capable of starting only for under 500 teams.
And that's the great thing about OOTP. Play it the way you like it!
For some of us, it can be fun to let the game engine take over a bit more and watch a scrub (IRL) turn into a HOF'er and have the occasional HOF'er (IRL) turn into a scrub.

Why would anyone do this? Maybe that's the wrong question. Maybe the question is, why wouldn't they, if that's what they find enjoyable?
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Old 02-25-2020, 10:56 PM   #35
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And that's the great thing about OOTP. Play it the way you like it!
For some of us, it can be fun to let the game engine take over a bit more and watch a scrub (IRL) turn into a HOF'er and have the occasional HOF'er (IRL) turn into a scrub.

Why would anyone do this? Maybe that's the wrong question. Maybe the question is, why wouldn't they, if that's what they find enjoyable?
I have no objection to playing that way, just with calling it historical.
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Old 02-25-2020, 11:45 PM   #36
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Are historical pitchers modeled as a bit worse than actual so the improvement they get from a mound visit during those random bad innings evens out overall performance?

Will a bad attitude player perform worse after a mound visit from a manager who isn't good at handling players?

-----------

It was observed in a previous post this is a great game. It is. And the developers are great too.

Its almost impossible to enjoy a futile discussion that goes on forever anymore. Y'know, size of the guns on Bismarck, the last word of the Car 54 theme song, etc, because someone will pick up a smart phone and find the answer. Well, the answer to this discussion resides only in the minds of OOTP developers.

Fortunately they've let the discussion go on without intervention so we could all enjoy it. It would have really been a shame had they shown up 20 or 25 posts ago and said visit to the mound is just for flavor.
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Old 02-26-2020, 04:38 AM   #37
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Are historical pitchers modeled as a bit worse than actual so the improvement they get from a mound visit during those random bad innings evens out overall performance?

Will a bad attitude player perform worse after a mound visit from a manager who isn't good at handling players?

-----------

It was observed in a previous post this is a great game. It is. And the developers are great too.

Its almost impossible to enjoy a futile discussion that goes on forever anymore. Y'know, size of the guns on Bismarck, the last word of the Car 54 theme song, etc, because someone will pick up a smart phone and find the answer. Well, the answer to this discussion resides only in the minds of OOTP developers.

Fortunately they've let the discussion go on without intervention so we could all enjoy it. It would have really been a shame had they shown up 20 or 25 posts ago and said visit to the mound is just for flavor.
Ah, but the developers have spoken in the manual. Calming effect is still the first option mentioned "usually used" as opposed to the second option "also helps" for time wasting.

So the developers are either liars and claiming something is in the game that is not (never really a good idea as it usually comes back to bite you in the butt. so why would they?) or.... it is as they say it is in the manual. They are the only two choices.
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Old 02-26-2020, 06:29 AM   #38
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Ah, but the developers have spoken in the manual. Calming effect is still the first option mentioned "usually used" as opposed to the second option "also helps" for time wasting.

So the developers are either liars and claiming something is in the game that is not (never really a good idea as it usually comes back to bite you in the butt. so why would they?) or.... it is as they say it is in the manual. They are the only two choices.
Ah, but there are more than two choices. They manual could be right but it also could be in error. No reason to claim moral deficiency (lying) while the possibility of mere error exists.
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Old 02-26-2020, 10:12 AM   #39
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I have no objection to playing that way, just with calling it historical.
Well, call it what you want but this generally starts with Create Historical League. What happens after that is largely up to the individual.
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Old 02-26-2020, 06:47 PM   #40
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It was asked earlier whether I had problems with anything else in the manual. Yes.

Like this on taking a pitch:

The batter will let the pitch go by, even if it is a good pitch. This option is often used when the pitcher is struggling with his control, or if the count is 3-0 or 3-1 and you hope to get a walk.

OK, so what do we know? Pitchers don't have predetermined bad days etc so a pitcher struggling with control is random. Last few pitches performance has no effect on the next pitch.

Secondly we know the outcome of that at bat is already determined. If its going to be a walk, its going to be a walk with or without taking this pitch. So this whole thing is just flavor.

Getting back to the calming issue, it says "try" to calm the pitcher. No statement it works. Seems to me the lack of AI manager visits to the mound show it doesn't. Looks like a flavor feature to me.
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