Special Edition Cards Are Killing Perfect Team

[Marleigh]

People who think the live SE cards are killing the game clearly haven't advanced to Diamond yet, 90% of those cards are useless. Maddux and Yogi are the only ones that are regularly used and perform well, 2nd tier are Bagwell, Yaz, Cano who are mostly platoon options.

and it's not like you can't get to diamond without actually using those players, my Lowdown Lugnuts are getting promoted this week to Diamond using a team that has 1 Live SE player, Robinson Cano, I've done the collections and sold the rest of the players. I've even got a silver (Petway) a bronze (Ozzie) and a gold (Magadan) in my lineup, Sisler and Mantle are the SE versions bought from the AH rather than completed, as is Seaver in the rotation. Its a F2P team.

[Marleigh]

Originally Posted by ubernoob

Cheaper to just buy the reward cards for the most part still.

incorrect, I have done the collections on 3 teams and the National League on another (plus working on another set on my new team) there are some individual players that cost more than the collection but the overall rewards are worth far more than the additional cost of those players, Live collections are definitely not a whale thing

My 70s team started doing the National League with 54k PP, by the time they had finished the whole of the NL, they had 125k, which was my goal as I wanted to buy 100 Joe Morgan.

You are also ignoring their earning potential, they easily earn enough to keep doing more collections.My newest team started out by doing Randy Johnson for 3k in entry pool, he would have cost 12-13k on the market, this year he has earned 5160 PP at Rookie level, Ted Lyons earned 9310PP at Rookie and i didn't get him until June, Bagwell 4785, Galarraga 680, Joyner 1060, Kent 850, Ichiro 2110, Klein 2120

then there is the fact that the players you lock can be used until you get better players, and even after that can be used in tournaments

[mayday10]

Originally Posted by Marleigh

no one would do live collections for a symbolic reward

tiered rewards would turn live collections from something everyone can do to a whalefest

Im not saying just a symbolic reward. Maybe a silver or gold player who is iconic for that team and may be useful in tournament play. As kind of a trophy.

But the other payoff would be pp, I dont know, maybe 4K per team? This would allow F2P teams to afford to save up to buy decent players, and we wont have the over-charged, over-used abundance of the Live SE players. Might lead to more variance. Would have to be balanced out with the economy projection and all that. Just brainstorming.

[Tinkerman]

I'm certainly not put off by the idea of just getting a bunch of PP for the live collections. Seems like a logical way to springboard teams into action, without saturating the game with millions of the same diamond cards.

[Marleigh]

Originally Posted by mayday10

Im not saying just a symbolic reward. Maybe a silver or gold player who is iconic for that team and may be useful in tournament play. As kind of a trophy.

But the other payoff would be pp, I dont know, maybe 4K per team? This would allow F2P teams to afford to save up to buy decent players, and we wont have the over-charged, over-used abundance of the Live SE players. Might lead to more variance. Would have to be balanced out with the economy projection and all that. Just brainstorming.

As i stated before most live se cards are not even useable at diamond, how are they overcharged?

[jd200600]

Originally Posted by Marleigh

As i stated before most live se cards are not even useable at diamond, how are they overcharged?

Originally Posted by Marleigh

As i stated before most live se cards are not even useable at diamond, how are they overcharged?

Not sure why you keep bringing this up, but the vast majority of people are in lower divisions than diamond. Thus, the cards for a majority of the player base are “overcharged.” Not sure that I would use that terminology, but the game is quite stale at the Silver league level where I am at today because the same cards are all over the place.

[mayday10]

Originally Posted by Marleigh

As i stated before most live se cards are not even useable at diamond, how are they overcharged?

Overcharged may be the wrong adjective but there are a few problems with them, hence the numerous complaints and suggestions

The barrier of entry is low, which isnt by itself a negative thing at all. Any f2p player can crack these out in a few weeks easy.

The rewards are really good. Not by itself a bad thing. However, this is the path taken by almost every team, especially those with no money spent. The rewards will vault any team way out of rookie, stone, iron, and bronze. Teams knocking out live collections in those levels get a huge boost.

So then they are very common. They hold no value. This makes it very cost prohibitive to upgrade or even make a horizontal move from most of these guys because many are good cards.

It seems like a balancing issue, as a result, many teams in silver, gold, and poor diamond teams are "stuck" with many of these players filling positions.

[Marleigh]

Originally Posted by mayday10

The rewards are really good. Not by itself a bad thing. However, this is the path taken by almost every team, especially those with no money spent. The rewards will vault any team way out of rookie, stone, iron, and bronze. Teams knocking out live collections in those levels get a huge boost.

So then they are very common. They hold no value. This makes it very cost prohibitive to upgrade or even make a horizontal move from most of these guys because many are good cards.

It seems like a balancing issue, as a result, many teams in silver, gold, and poor diamond teams are "stuck" with many of these players filling positions.

the problem isn't with the live collections, but the fact that there is no clear upgrade path after doing those.

Every single one of the non live collections is bad value for money, with the rewards being worth a fraction of the value of the cards you put into it (except maybe Jackie Robinson, who requires a large investment in time and money) this isn't helped by the fact that the same cards seem to be being reused constantly for collections upping their cost even more

Packs are useless for upgrading, its just a gambling system where the house pretty much always wins

any remotely decent player gets its price hiked up massively on the AH, there is so little supply that supply and demand doesn't really dictate prices, just who has the biggest wallet

When all is said and done OOTP don't care about ''F2P'' players. Every content release is aimed firmly at whales. The likelihood is that legislation will be coming to several countries regarding lootboxes so surely they have to adapt to that in some way.

[Westheim]

There are not enough packs going round, leading to a lack of supply. Content releases being aimed at whales is nonsense, everybody can get those cards... if they buy packs. If everybody tries to play it ****ing smart and buy cards rather than packs it's obvious that there is no supply. There's 20 instances of most live SE rewards on the market at any given time, but required live silvers for some teams cost 1k and up.

As I said before, there should have been WAY higher payouts in packs for missions. Not one pack if you can fumble together six cards beginning with Q. More like FIVE packs.

Historical packs are great. If you ever get to see one with your own eyeballs. There would have been an opportunity to sprinkle a few of those to everybody, throw people a bone. One historical pack for completing any five live missions. Another one for ten, another one for fifteen.

Special packs for missions, that contain ALL historical silver cards or ALL historical gold cards.

Something. Anything.

Instead there's a few guys going round the forums that tell everybody that you're doing it wrong if you don't make 50 packs a week from tournaments. Alright, I'm glad that you're retired and can enter teams into tournaments 18 hours a day, but I have another thing or two to do with my life. Tournaments are a nice gimmick, but a pain in the bum to manage without constantly babysitting the game, and that's not something I see myself doing at any point or in any scenario.

[bearcatbbal22]

Originally Posted by Westheim

There are not enough packs going round, leading to a lack of supply. Content releases being aimed at whales is nonsense, everybody can get those cards... if they buy packs. If everybody tries to play it ****ing smart and buy cards rather than packs it's obvious that there is no supply. There's 20 instances of most live SE rewards on the market at any given time, but required live silvers for some teams cost 1k and up.

As I said before, there should have been WAY higher payouts in packs for missions. Not one pack if you can fumble together six cards beginning with Q. More like FIVE packs.

Historical packs are great. If you ever get to see one with your own eyeballs. There would have been an opportunity to sprinkle a few of those to everybody, throw people a bone. One historical pack for completing any five live missions. Another one for ten, another one for fifteen.

Special packs for missions, that contain ALL historical silver cards or ALL historical gold cards.

Something. Anything.

Instead there's a few guys going round the forums that tell everybody that you're doing it wrong if you don't make 50 packs a week from tournaments. Alright, I'm glad that you're retired and can enter teams into tournaments 18 hours a day, but I have another thing or two to do with my life. Tournaments are a nice gimmick, but a pain in the bum to manage without constantly babysitting the game, and that's not something I see myself doing at any point or in any scenario.

This is where an OOTP mobile app would come in handy. I'd be great to enter tournaments on my phone every few hours when out of the house.

[mayday10]

Originally Posted by Marleigh

The likelihood is that legislation will be coming to several countries regarding lootboxes so surely they have to adapt to that in some way.

Please explain this. No idea.


I couldnt agree more with the last 3 posts. Maybe it shouldnt be such a sole-focus on the Live SE 'problem'... but the barrier in breaking through past that point. The trickle of packs and pp you can earn in this game cannot make a dent into 40K so/so diamond players or even a 200K player who is one of the top handful at his position. Somehow the gulf between a nearly insta-sell to a 7K Live SE player who is decent enough for awhile and the next step needs to be reduced.
I really do like the fact that there is a nice path laid out for f2p people to obtain good players. The missions were 'fun' to do (at least what I consider enjoyable).

Im not even sure if it is a 'need people to spend money issue'. I feel like I could dump $100 in and spend it in 5 minutes without too much to show for it. As the scale is now, 175K pp isnt really that much in post-Live Collection world.

I have said it a few times, but the App is a much needed tool that can alleviate a bunch of these problems. Would be able to monitor tournaments and maximize participation and also maybe play around and try to earn revenues in the Auction House.

I also agree that some of the rewards, perhaps for the collections, perhaps for tournaments needs to be spiced up. Maybe add pp into the reward along with packs and SE cards. More packs is fine. Opening packs is fun. I doubt more packs would crush the economy. I have gone almost 300 packs (1800 cards) without seeing a Historical Diamond (or perfect) player, and about 100 packs (600 cards) before that.


I have said it before, but a future version of the software could incorporate checklist 'missions' that are tied with teams, eras, etc, that might motivate users to alter their lineups a bit. "Hit 30 HR with a Twins player", "1000 PA with players from the 1930s", etc.

I realize a lot of these ideas are probably not feasible or appealing to developers. Just a brainstorming activity for the benefit of all.

[Marleigh]

Originally Posted by mayday10

Please explain this. No idea.

lootboxes are already illegal in Netherlands and Belgium

and increasing calls for bans in other countries

https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/8/18...sh-blizzard-ea

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-48214293

https://www.deseret.com/entertainmen...20-video-games

[professor ape]

Originally Posted by mayday10

Please explain this. No idea.


I couldnt agree more with the last 3 posts. Maybe it shouldnt be such a sole-focus on the Live SE 'problem'... but the barrier in breaking through past that point. The trickle of packs and pp you can earn in this game cannot make a dent into 40K so/so diamond players or even a 200K player who is one of the top handful at his position. Somehow the gulf between a nearly insta-sell to a 7K Live SE player who is decent enough for awhile and the next step needs to be reduced.
I really do like the fact that there is a nice path laid out for f2p people to obtain good players. The missions were 'fun' to do (at least what I consider enjoyable).

Im not even sure if it is a 'need people to spend money issue'. I feel like I could dump $100 in and spend it in 5 minutes without too much to show for it. As the scale is now, 175K pp isnt really that much in post-Live Collection world.

I have said it a few times, but the App is a much needed tool that can alleviate a bunch of these problems. Would be able to monitor tournaments and maximize participation and also maybe play around and try to earn revenues in the Auction House.

I also agree that some of the rewards, perhaps for the collections, perhaps for tournaments needs to be spiced up. Maybe add pp into the reward along with packs and SE cards. More packs is fine. Opening packs is fun. I doubt more packs would crush the economy. I have gone almost 300 packs (1800 cards) without seeing a Historical Diamond (or perfect) player, and about 100 packs (600 cards) before that.


I have said it before, but a future version of the software could incorporate checklist 'missions' that are tied with teams, eras, etc, that might motivate users to alter their lineups a bit. "Hit 30 HR with a Twins player", "1000 PA with players from the 1930s", etc.

I realize a lot of these ideas are probably not feasible or appealing to developers. Just a brainstorming activity for the benefit of all.

It’s the classic issue of supply and demand. Just like IRL with player contracts, the demand for the top cards causes exponential price increases as people try to squeeze out relatively small incremental performance advantages over the next tier. The only solution would be to flood the market with more of the top cards to raise supply but to make any real impact on price, you would need to increase supply significantly. The issue there is that you would have a ton of teams with Jackie Robinson and Babe Ruth. The bottom line is that as long as there are even a small number of people who are willing to throw a bunch of money into their team, there is going to be an imbalance. We have to accept that.

[Orcin]

Originally Posted by professor ape

the demand for the top cards causes exponential price increases as people try to squeeze out relatively small incremental performance advantages over the next tier. The only solution would be to flood the market with more of the top cards to raise supply but to make any real impact on price, you would need to increase supply significantly. The issue there is that you would have a ton of teams with Jackie Robinson and TRIS SPEAKER.

Corrected this for you. Apparently, this is the situation now in Perfect League. All of the teams still look alike; they just look different from the cookie cutter SE teams.

[professor ape]

Originally Posted by Orcin

Corrected this for you. Apparently, this is the situation now in Perfect League. All of the teams still look alike; they just look different from the cookie cutter SE teams.

Well played sir

[chazzycat]

Originally Posted by Westheim

Alright, I'm glad that you're retired and can enter teams into tournaments 18 hours a day, but I have another thing or two to do with my life. Tournaments are a nice gimmick, but a pain in the bum to manage without constantly babysitting the game, and that's not something I see myself doing at any point or in any scenario.

I have a full time job and currently sit atop the tourney wins leaderboard. It takes about 30 seconds of effort every 30 minutes to keep the slots churning.

[professor ape]

Originally Posted by chazzycat

I have a full time job and currently sit atop the tourney wins leaderboard. It takes about 30 seconds of effort every 30 minutes to keep the slots churning.

Same here. I have my work setup at home and keep my personal laptop sitting on the side. Every 20-30 minutes I glance over and see if I need to enter another tournament. Two clicks later it is done. Now I just need to be able to do it on my iPad.

[dkgo]

Not everyone works from home to check the game every half-hour all day. Making that a requirement to be somewhat successful is a bit harsh. It turns PT into a combination of the worst parts of mobile games and gatcha games.

[chazzycat]

to clarify I am working in office. there is technology that allows you to remote into your PC from your phone

[dkgo]

Thats what I used too. But again, I know not everyone can be piddling away on their phones every 30 minutes and it wasnt really fun while I was doing it. it was playing because I felt I "had to" not that I wanted to