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Old 07-16-2019, 11:25 PM   #1
Mannyw
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Player Speed Ratings

I think OOTP nails almost all ratings but I think the running speed ratings are off. I often see players I know are fast with speed numbers down in the 20-30s.

I've even went to https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sprin...=&team=&min=10 confirm my thoughts and this website shows players sprint speeds from Statcast. The speed rating a often very off.

This said, can a new way of evaluate palyer speed be considered by the developers perhaps?

Thanks.
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Old 07-17-2019, 10:18 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mannyw View Post
I think OOTP nails almost all ratings but I think the running speed ratings are off. I often see players I know are fast with speed numbers down in the 20-30s.



I've even went to https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/sprin...=&team=&min=10 confirm my thoughts and this website shows players sprint speeds from Statcast. The speed rating a often very off.



This said, can a new way of evaluate palyer speed be considered by the developers perhaps?



Thanks.
Speed in game is coded offensively as stealing attempts, nothing to do with how fast they can actually run.

I think is baserunning what might be misleading you?

I don't know yet what Speed does in defense.

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Old 07-17-2019, 11:58 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharkn20 View Post
Speed in game is coded offensively as stealing attempts, nothing to do with how fast they can actually run.

I think is baserunning what might be misleading you?

I don't know yet what Speed does in defense.

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Then what does the rating STEALING mean?
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Old 07-17-2019, 12:11 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Pirates View Post
Then what does the rating STEALING mean?
It translates into success rates on steals. For instance, there were seasons where Ichiro may not have been the fastest person in the league by steal attempts but almost certainly had the highest Stealing rating equivalent (for example, 2008, when he was 43/47).
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Old 07-17-2019, 12:17 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syd Thrift View Post
It translates into success rates on steals. For instance, there were seasons where Ichiro may not have been the fastest person in the league by steal attempts but almost certainly had the highest Stealing rating equivalent (for example, 2008, when he was 43/47).
Thank you. I could never figure that out.
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Old 07-17-2019, 01:26 PM   #6
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I also believe that Speed has an affect on.. well.. speed. Legging out grounders to first, avoiding double plays.. things like that. I know that it affects turning doubles into triples, unless that player has a specific triples rating. At least I hope Speed affects more than base stealing attempts.
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Old 07-17-2019, 02:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Argonaut View Post
I also believe that Speed has an affect on.. well.. speed. Legging out grounders to first, avoiding double plays.. things like that. I know that it affects turning doubles into triples, unless that player has a specific triples rating. At least I hope Speed affects more than base stealing attempts.
I would be glad to see some statiscal evidence of this in-game

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Old 07-17-2019, 02:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharkn20 View Post
I would be glad to see some statiscal evidence of this in-game
In Perfect Team, I have a team designed around Speed. They routinely put up about +30 BsR, which translates to about 3 wins because of the team's superior Stealing, Speed, and Baserunning ability. This includes grounding into double plays and other factors.

Whether I'm sacrificing more or less than 3 wins by not having slower players that hit better, I can't say. But the PT engine is the same as the OOTP engine so I assume Speed adds value here too.
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Old 07-17-2019, 03:01 PM   #9
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I have asked about speed and what it actually means many times.

It would be nice if someone from OOTP actually answered that question.
I don't think that is asking too much.
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Old 07-17-2019, 03:27 PM   #10
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This is directly from the manual

Quote:
Running Speed

Running Speed is a measure of how quickly a player can run from one base to the next. Players with a high rating in Running Speed are more of a threat to steal bases, and are more likely to advance further on a ball in play. Running Speed is strictly for offensive play. For example, Running Speed does not factor into an outfielder's range. However, Running Speed and Defensive Range are linked internally. For example, as a player ages, his speed and range will generally decline at the same pace.
http://manuals.ootpdevelopments.com/...=other_ratings
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Old 07-17-2019, 03:33 PM   #11
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OK, then what is baserunning?

Plus I have seen Willie Mays in the early 60's have a dismal running speed.
I saw Willie Mays play in person.
He was not slow or average.
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Old 07-17-2019, 03:42 PM   #12
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Baserunning, again from the manual, is a measure of a players instincts when running the bases. Players with a high rating are more likely to take advantage of fielder miscues to advance, and less likely to get thrown out due to baserunning mistakes.
I think a slow runner can have good base running instincts.
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Old 07-17-2019, 03:47 PM   #13
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The problem here is this:
I have seen many fast baseball players who did not steal a lot of bases, have an abysmal running speed.

This is factually incorrect.
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Old 07-17-2019, 04:48 PM   #14
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It sounds like your definition of running speed is different than the developers definition. The developers could use a different choice of words like, “threat of stealing”, or something like that.
Of course Willie Mays, along with Mickey Mantle, were very fast but their role on their teams like you said for Mays in the 60s was not to steal bases. Since they were not a threat to steal, their threat rating (called running speed by the developers) is not as high as some other players.
If they actually do try to steal a base, then that result will be based on their stealing base rating. How often the try to steal will be based on their speed rating, if the team is controlled by the AI.
At least that is how I understand it.
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Old 07-17-2019, 05:34 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reed View Post
It sounds like your definition of running speed is different than the developers definition. The developers could use a different choice of words like, “threat of stealing”, or something like that.
Of course Willie Mays, along with Mickey Mantle, were very fast but their role on their teams like you said for Mays in the 60s was not to steal bases. Since they were not a threat to steal, their threat rating (called running speed by the developers) is not as high as some other players.
If they actually do try to steal a base, then that result will be based on their stealing base rating. How often the try to steal will be based on their speed rating, if the team is controlled by the AI.
At least that is how I understand it.
But that's just one component of the Speed stat. It also covers moving between the bases (at least I hope and believe it does). You wouldn't want Willie Mays being a sloth on the basepaths just because he didn't get the green light to steal. If that's the case that Willie is slow in the historical database, then yes I agree with Mr. Pirates that it's wrong.

I suspect there's a problem when pulling stats for the historical databases, as I'm sure they don't really have any way to judge foot speed. So it probably pulls the "Speed" rating only from stealing attempts.
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Old 07-17-2019, 05:48 PM   #16
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You actually

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirates View Post
OK, then what is baserunning?

Plus I have seen Willie Mays in the early 60's have a dismal running speed.
I saw Willie Mays play in person.
He was not slow or average.
saw him??? I'm so envious. That must have been a real treat to see him in his prime.
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Old 07-17-2019, 05:57 PM   #17
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It sounds like your definition of running speed is different than the developers definition. The developers could use a different choice of words like, “threat of stealing”, or something like that.
Of course Willie Mays, along with Mickey Mantle, were very fast but their role on their teams like you said for Mays in the 60s was not to steal bases. Since they were not a threat to steal, their threat rating (called running speed by the developers) is not as high as some other players.
If they actually do try to steal a base, then that result will be based on their stealing base rating. How often the try to steal will be based on their speed rating, if the team is controlled by the AI.
At least that is how I understand it.
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Old 07-17-2019, 06:02 PM   #18
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saw him??? I'm so envious. That must have been a real treat to see him in his prime.
I was lucky to see many great players. Being from Pittsburgh I got to see Clemente play on a daily basis.

It's a shame what they did to the game of baseball. The players are just as good, but the game lacks emotion and drags on forever. Players can't even learn to hit to the opposite field to take advantage or stop these crazy infield shifts. But that's a debate for another day.
I don't want to sidetrack the speed issue.
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Old 07-17-2019, 06:11 PM   #19
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Ok, I am going to show my age. In the early 60s I lived south of San Francisco, San Mateo, and did see Mays, McCovey, Marichal in person. I think Mays was slowing down then, I remember thinking he was fast but he was not Lou Brock , Willie Davis, Maury Wills, etc. on the base path. IMO
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Old 07-17-2019, 06:17 PM   #20
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I started this new league, the Year 1963.
All 3 of these guys had above-average running speed, in real life.

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