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OOTP 20 - Historical Simulations Discuss historical simulations and their results in this forum.

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Old 07-14-2019, 10:40 PM   #21
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Hart Trophy Winners and Surprise Star on the blueline

HART TROPHY WINNERS
The Hart Trophy is presented to the NHL's Most Valuable Player each season. It was first awarded in real-life in 1923-24 to Frank Nighbor of the Ottawa Senators. Wayne Gretzky holds the record for winning it the most with 9 awards.

In the sim, it is presented every season so it was first presented to Joe Malone of the Canadiens in 1917-18. Frank Nighbor did win it twice in my sim, in 1918-19 and again in 1921-22 and Wayne Gretzky still holds the record for most Hart Trophy's, but it is 11 in this sim.

Here are the players won it at least five times:
Code:
Wayne Gretzky 	11
Jean Beliveau	 7
Pavel Datsyuk	 7
Sid Abel	 7
Gordie Howe	 6
Bobby Clarke	 6 
Howie Morenz	 6
Mario Lemieux is absent from that list as he claimed it on just 4 occasions, which ties him with Joe Sakic for 8th.

Here is a brief look at the careers of each of players who have won at least 7 of them.

WAYNE GRETZKY: After debuting with the WHA's Indianapolis Racers as a 17 year old, the all-time NHL point leader with 2,554 spent his entire career in the Winnipeg Jets/Coyotes organization. He enjoyed plenty of individual success and holds 5 of the top 8 individual season points records including first place with 173 points - something he accomplished twice in his career. Gretzky's 914 career goals place him 6th on that list behind Mario Lemieux (1105), Brett Hull (1039), Joe Sakic (952), Luc Robitaille (941 and Guy Lafleur (928). Gretzky led the NHL in scoring 6 times in his career and won the Conn Smythe Trophy once, in 1989-90 when he led the Jets to their only Stanley Cup.

CAREER TOTALS
GP - 1700 (11th)
G - 914 (6th)
A- 1640 (1st)
PTS- 2554 (1st)

PLAYOFFS
GP - 141
G - 100 (6th)
A- 161 (6th)
PTS-261 (4th)
CUPS - 1



PAVEL DATSYUK: Datsyuk is still active in the sim at the end of the 2017-18 season. He began his career with Ottawa, where he won his first two MVP awards, before moving on to Carolina as a free agent signing in the summer of 2006. He won his only Stanley Cup with the Hurricanes in 2011-12.

CAREER TOTALS
GP - 1684 (14th)
G - 503 (58th)
A- 1054 (18th)
PTS- 1557 (25th)

PLAYOFFS
GP - 178
G - 43
A- 141 (10th)
PTS-184 (14th)
CUPS - 1


JEAN BELIVEAU - Despite Beliveau's impressive career numbers that included 6 Art Ross Trophy's as NHL scoring leader and a Conn Smythe as playoff MVP in 1962-63, he never got a Stanley Cup ring. Beliveau spent his entire career with Chicago, and the Hawks have never won a Cup in their existence, which traces back to 1926. Beliveau led the Hawks to the finals twice in his career, in 1962 and again the following season, but they lost both times to Montreal in 6 games. He was selected first overall in the 1949 NHL draft.

CAREER TOTALS
GP - 1362
G - 519 (51st)
A- 696 (86th)
PTS- 1215 (62nd)

PLAYOFFS
GP - 61
G - 34
A- 28
PTS-62
CUPS - 0


SID ABEL - Joined the Leafs as an 18 year old in 1936 after being the first pick in the draft. He would end his carer with stops in New York and Detroit but was best known for his days in Toronto, helping the club win 3 Stanley Cups. He led the NHL in scoring 3 times and was also named the league's top defensive forward on 3 occasions. At the age of 32, Toronto dealt him to the Rangers for Bernie Geoffrion and he would play 4 seasons in New York but was well past his prime at that time.

CAREER TOTALS
GP - 1010
G - 396
A- 606
PTS- 1002

PLAYOFFS
GP - 137
G - 79
A- 74
PTS-153 (31st)
CUPS - 3

Here are the NHL's top 30 career point producers.



The biggest shock for me is that name at the bottom of that list. Carol Vadnais somehow became the second coming of Bobby Orr in this sim. It took Vadnais a while to become a regular in the NHL but once he did he was unstoppable. Vadnais won 4 Norris Trophy's to Orr's two in the sim and did something Orr did in real life but could not do in this sim, as Vadnais became the first and only defenseman to lead the NHL in scoring with his 104 point season in 1976-77.

Originally drafted by Chicago 5th overall in 1964, Vadnais spent much of his time with the Blackhawks organization playing in the AHL and even had a minor league stint in St Louis, a city where he would later find glory in the NHL. His break came in 1967 when he was dealt to Boston, where he would play alongside Orr, for Bob Dillabough. He helped the Bruins win a Cup in 1970 but was dealt to Toronto the following year for Paul Henderson. He won his first Norris Trophy in his second season with the Leafs but Toronto, needing help in net, dealt him to the St Louis Blues for young goalie Billy Smith.

It was with St Louis that his career really took off and he won 3 more Norris Trophy's and set a record that still stands for points in a season by a defenseman with 122 in 1978-79. Ray Bourque challenged the mark a few seasons later but came up 2 points shy.

In real life Vadnais had a good, long career and scored 587 points but was certainly not a superstar. He is perhaps best known for being part of the trade that sent him and Phil Esposito from Boston to the Rangers in exchange for Brad Park and Jean Ratelle.
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Old 07-17-2019, 01:35 AM   #22
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Thanks for elaborating on the 90's Warriors. The "Who is the GOAT?" question gets thrown out a lot in real life, but it would be even worse in this sim. Shaq carried a revolving door of role players to 5 championships but never won an MVP and only made All-NBA First Team one time. Easy to make arguments both ways on Shaq Diesel here.
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Old 07-17-2019, 02:38 AM   #23
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Yes, it was a pretty impressive performance. He had some dominant regular season numbers at times but Olajawon always seemed to get the MVP (He won 7 of them) early in Shaq's career and Tim Duncan got them later (Duncan ended up with 6).
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Old 07-17-2019, 10:22 AM   #24
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MARK FIDRYCH

Probably the player most instrumental in me becoming a Detroit fan was Mark 'The Bird' Fidrych. I was 11 years old during his rookie season so I always look at how he did in any of my long term sims.

His career in this sim last slightly longer as he did not get hurt in his second year but it also lacked the dramatic rookie season of real life when he went 19-9 and won the American League rookie of the year. Sim Mark Fidrych was merely a average mid-to-bottom of the rotation starter for 3 seasons with the Tigers before recalculate eroded his skills and sent him to the minors to finish his career except for a brief two-inning stint with Pittsburgh a decade afer his Detroit days.
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Old 07-20-2019, 11:33 AM   #25
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The Tigers

THE DETROIT TIGERS

This sim was not very kind to my Detroit Tigers. In fact, it was downright ugly as the Tigers only World Series title since 1925 came in 1983 and there were a lot of bad seasons in between. Here is a look at the history of the franchise including some details on their two 'glory periods'.

I won't worry about pre-1901 in the sim but from the formation of the American League the Tigers spent the first two decades primarily residing in the second division, with 12 seasons from 1901-19 where they finished 7th or 8th including every year from 1901-09. In short, they were the American League doormat but the arrival of Ty Cobb as an 18 year old in 1905 slowly changed things. By the end of Cobb's 24 year career, which was spent entirely in Detroit, the club was a dynasty. It took a long time to get there but Cobb, with 4,281 career hits and 853 stolen bases, led the way. The Georgia Peach won 3 batting titles and 3 MVP awards to go with 5 World Series titles.

The dynasty took a long time coming but when it did it was well worth the wait as Detroit, after finishing 6th in 1918, 27 games back of Boston, and fifth in 1919, 18.5 back of the White Sox, turned around things quickly with a 98 win season to claim the pennant in 1920 and then beat the Giants for their first World Series title. In 1921, they dipped to third behind the White Sox and Red Sox but sill won 86 games but in 1922 the Tigers proved the 1920 campaign was not a fluke with a second pennant and another World Series win over the Giants. Then came another, and another, and before you knew it the Tigers, the lowly Tigers had won 5 World Series titles in a 6 year span.
Code:

DETROIT TIGERS FINISHES 1920-1925
1920 1st   98-56
1921 3rd   86-68
1922 1st   93-61
1923 1st  106-48
1924 1st   96-58
1925 1st  101-53
Here is a look at each of those teams:

1920
The 1920 Tigers really came out of nowhere, going from 69-71 the previous season to a 98 win season and their first pennant. Pitcher Lefty Williams (25-10, 2.81) enjoyed the best season of his great career in Detroit, winning his first of 3 Cy Young Awards during the title. Williams was the anchor of an otherwise pretty ordinary rotation but several pitchers had career years including Duster Mails (18-7) and Speed Martin (11-5), neither of whom would ever contribute in any real amount again. Hooks Dauss (17-10) had the year of his career but he would be around and contribute to a couple of more pennants.

Ty Cobb (.359,5,88), now 33 years old, had been really the only star on some bad teams for many years but now he found himself with a supporting cast that included a young Harry Heilmann (.352,6,71), Dave Bancroft (.324,4,53), Baby Doll Jacobson (.342,7,105), Pete Kilduff (.293,4,84) and Wally Pipp (.315,7,76). The Tigers would win a franchise record 98 games and finish 8 ahead of Boston for their first American League pennant. Detroit would beat the Giants 5 games to 4 in the 1920 World Series.

1922
After slipping to third in 1921 the Tigers retooled their pitching staff and began a run of 4 straight World Series titles. Lefty Williams (23-10, 3.34) was still the ace but the rest of the rotation from the 1920 winner had been replaced with Bullet Joe Bush (17-13, 4.37) coming over from the A's, 26 year old Pete Schneider (19-12, 3.10) a pickup from Cincinnati 3 years prior finally ready to contribute along with 21 year old rookie Syl Johnson (14-9, 3.70).

At 27, Harry Heilmann (.403,20,123) enjoyed the greatest year of his career but despite hitting over .400 he did not win the batting title as the Browns George Sisler hit .405. Cobb (.357,8,67), Bancroft (.307,2,67), Kilduff (.318,2,71) and Jacobson (.335,5,85) were all still around with homegrown newcomers Fred Haney (.399,1,50) at third base and Lu Blue (.280,2,57) at first.

The World Series was a 6 game win over the Giants.

1923
Detroit completely dominated the American League winning 106 games and finishing 21 ahead of second place Philadelphia. Lefty Williams finished 22-5 and got his second Cy Young while Heilmann hit .397 and finally got his batting title. 36 year old Ty Cobb (.370,10,123) had an outstanding season as did Baby Doll Jacobson (.353,13,130) while Haney (.311,1,60), Bancroft (.308,3,84), Kilduff (.272,2,65) and Blue (.296,2,49) remained solid contributors. 1923 would also mark the rookie debut of 21 year old Heinie Manush (.361,6,23 in 71 games).

On the mound Williams carried the team but both Pete Schneider (12-4, 3.32) and Syl Johnson (15-2, 2.70) had big seasons and 33 year old Hooks Dauss (14-7, 4.03) regained a spot in the rotation. It was another World Series matchup with the Giants and Detroit prevailed once again in 6 games.

1924
The Tigers came back down closer to the rest of the American League this season but still managed to win 96 games and finish 10 up on both Chicago and Philadelphia before going on to beat the Cardinals in 6 games in the World Series.

Ty Cobb(.384,8,115) finished second in batting in the American League despite being 37 years old. Heilmann (.358,14,104), Jacobson (.307,10,106), Bancroft (.329,4,63), Haney (.315,1,81), Blue (.347,3,43) and a rapidly improving Heinie Manush (.348,7,55) led the offense with 22 year old second year second baseman Harry Rice (.355,17,87) enjoying a breakout year.

Williams (20-10, 3.73) didn't win the Cy Young but had another strong season as did Schneider (19-12, 3.10) and Dauss (17-11, 4.18). Bullet Joe Bush (12-4, 4.17) contributed as did 35 year old pitcher Claude Hendrix (15-10, 4.72) in his first full season in Detroit since being acquired from Pittsburgh at the deadline last year.

1925
Back over the century mark for wins as the 101-53 Tigers won their fourth straight American League pennant, finishing 8 up on the White Sox and 14 ahead of third place Philadelphia. Williams went 23-9 to earn his third Cy Young Award while Schneider (17-12, 4.72), Dauss (14-7, 4.50), Hendrix (11-7, 4.34) and Bush (7-10, 4.84) rounded out the rotation. After 2 seasons spent mostly in the minors 26 year old Earl Whitehill went 11-1 in 18 starts while veteran reliever Gene Packard was 12-4 with 11 saves out of the pen.

Cobb (.376,12,98) showed no signs of slowing down at age 38. Heilmann (.370,12,110), Harry Rice (.348,13,89), Bancroft (.302,2,75), Manush (.355,17,100) and a 22 year old rookie by the name of Charlie Gehringer (.266,2,66) led the league's best offense. Jacobson (.284,1,43), Haney (.302,0,27) and Blue (.266,0,36) still contributed, although in a lesser role while catcher Buck Crouse (.296,4,55) was added in the off-season from the White Sox.

1926
The run would end as the Tigers fell to 89-65 and finished 10 games back of the Athletics who were building another powerhouse behind Lefty Grove and Al Simmons. Williams (18-10), Whitehill (22-10) and Schneider (18-10) were the only consistent starting pitchers and while youngsters Manush (.366,16,113), Rice (.373,9,114) and Gehringer (.332,5,62) thrived along with 31 year old Heilmann (.384,9,93) the rest of the roster starting to show signs of age, particularly Cobb who was limited to just 64 games and hit .298 at the age of 39.

The next 50-odd years would be a bleak period in Detroit baseball with just a few moments of quality baseball sprinkled in.

The Tigers finished second in 1934 and won a pennant in 1935 after going 103-51. They followed that up with a 101 win season in 1936 but finished 2 games back of the Yankees. It was a glory period for the pinstripers as New York reeled off 10 pennants in 11 years between 1934 and 1944 with Detroit finishing second in 5 of those years and third in 3 others.

The 1935 pennant winner for the Tigers finished 103-51 and edged the Yankees out by a single game but Detroit would be swept by the Cubs in the World Series. Schoolboy Rowe (28-4, 2.31) was the difference that year as he won his only Cy Young and enjoyed the greatest season of his career and maybe one of the greatest seasons of all-time. It was two years later that tragedy would strike Rowe. He was 99-22 over his first four season but then suffered multiple arm injuries and would win just 45 more games before retiring in 1945. Hank Greenberg (.315,39,133) was just entering his prime as a 24 year old that season as well. He would enjoy a decade of productivity before moving on to the Browns to end a career that saw him hit 401 career homeruns.


The Tigers would win another pennant in 1946, finishing with 98 wins to lead second place Boston by 7 games. That Detroit team had some pitching as well, led by 25 year old Hal Newhouser (25-8, 1.91) and 26 year old Fred Hutchinson (20-10, 2.94). The offense was not quite as strong but 25 year old Hoot Evers (.288,12,95), 27 year old Pee Wee Reese (.270,2,66) and 25 year old Dick Wakefield (.296,13,75) were the core of what should have been a promising future. The Cardinals beat Detroit in 6 games in the 1946 series.

Led by Newhouser and his four Cy Young Awards one would have expected the Tigers to win some more pennants but it was not to be. They lost the pennant in a playoff to Boston the following season, finished 2 back of the Red Sox the next year and although they had a number of third and fourth place finishes in the 1950's, Detroit could never get over the hump and win another pennant.

The 1960s and 1970s were a downtime for both the city of Detroit and it's baseball team which rarely left the second division in the 60's and spent most of the 70s in 5th or 6th in the AL East. That slowly changed as the decade came to a close.

In 1979 the now rapidly improving Tigers won 98 games but still finished 3 back of Boston in the American League East. The core was there for future success as that Tiger team featured a 29 year old Mike Schmidt, who signed an 8 year contract as a free agent prior to the 1978 season, as the leader and a group of young up and coming stars in Lance Parrish, Lou Whitaker, Alan Trammell, Kirk Gibson, Steve Kemp, Jason Thompson, Jack Morris, Dan Petry and Dave Rozema.

The 1980 team won 102 games, but lost it's most important contest, a 1 game tiebreaker with Baltimore that gave the Orioles the AL East title. A key addition that season was the free agent signing of pitcher Rick Reuschel, who would win 15 games but have an even bigger impact the following year.

In 1981 the Tigers did what no Detroit team had been able to do since 1946 - make the playoffs. Detroit won a franchise record 114 games and finished 22 games ahead of second place Boston. The Tigers were led by an MVP season from Mike Schmidt (.264,40,123) and he was joined on the all-star team by Trammell(.314,4,65), Kemp (.295,22,116), Whitaker(.300,13,71), Parrish(.308,22,98), Gibson (.306,22,90) and Petry(20-6, 3.00). Jack Morris (22-8, 2.56) and Rick Reuschel (23-6,2.58) should have made it but didn't. The Detroit offense was so good it even made a 20-game winner out of pitcher Gary Serum (21-6, 3.01) as they were the only team I have seen to boast 4 twenty-game winners in it's rotation.

Despite their dominance the Tigers failed to win the World Series that year. After beating Oakland 3 games to two in the ALCS, they lost in 7 to the St Louis Cardinals, who had a dominant 113-49 season themselves that year. St Louis was also loaded with Nolan Ryan and Ron Guidry both winning twenty games while veteran Steve Carlton and Jerry Reuss also played a big role in the rotation. The offense had Ron Carew, Leon Durham, Ted Simmons, Dwight Evans, Mickey Rivers and Gary Templeton.

In 1982, Detorit won 99 games but still finished 6 games behind the New York Yankees in the American League East race but Detroit would get revenge the following year, nipping the Yankees by 1 game to win the AL East in 1983 with a 101-61 record. The Tigers would need the full 5 games to knock of Minnesota in the ALCS and then won their first World Series since 1925 by topping Pittsburgh in 5 games.

Mike Schmidt (.265,43,122) was the American League MVP that season and Detroit closer Terry Forster (8-5, 40sv) earned reliever of the year. The rotation featured a pair of homegrown players in Jack Morris (19-12) and Dan Petry (15-6) as well as two free agent signings from the previous winter in John Denny (22-7) and Steve Rogers (18-9). Gary Serum was still there but posted just a 2-6 record in 11 starts. While Schmidt led the offense he had plenty of help from the likes of Jason Thompson (.276,28,107), Kirk Gibson (.297,23,106), Lance Parrish (.285,23,73), Alan Trammell (.269,16,68), Lou Whitaker (.334,16,99),Glenn Wilson (.306,9,81) and veteran free agent pickup Amos Otis (.276,10,60).

Detroit would win the AL East the following year, winning 104 games and finishing 4 ahead of Toronto, but the Tigers fell in 7 to Oakland in the ALCS. Jack Morris would win the Cy Young on the strength of a 21-6 season and the club added Eddie Murray (.318,35,115) and Ken Griffey Sr (.298,15,83) in free agency but a now 34 year old Mike Schmidt (.214,25,83) started to show the signs of age.

In 1985 the Tigers slid to 4th in the AL East, winning just 76 games. Jack Morris had a 20-win season but Petry, a 15 game winner the year before, was gone and the rest of the pitching staff was either old (Steve Carton at 4-9), bad (Moose Haas 10-18) or both (Steve Rogers at 4-4, 5.66). The Tigers signed free agent Dave Kingman (.239,35,120) to replace the Schmidt, who signed with Cincinnati. but even with Gibson (.262,32,104), Trammell (.309,22,86), Whitaker (.326,18,76), Parrish (.246,18,59) and newcomers Andre Dawson (.309,22,86) and Rance Mulliniks (.255,7,50) Detroit was doomed by it's lack of pitching.

In 1986 the lost 95 games and bottomed out at 57-105 in 1987. From 1985 until 2008 the Tigers spent most of the time 4th or worse and they had just 2 seasons of .500 ball (1993 at 82-80 and 2001 at 81-81) during that stretch.

They would finally win the division again in 2010 and 2013 but would be swept in the Division series both times and finished the most recent season (2015) with a 72-90 record, good for fourth place in the AL Central, 38 games back of Cleveland.

Here are the players who's numbers the Tigers have retired.


#2 -HARRY HEILMANN- 1914-1931 :Batted .343 for his career with Detroit with 3,215 hits including 636 doubles. Is a Hall of Famer who won 5 World Series titles, 3 playoff MVP awards and a 7 time all-star

#5 - HANK GREENBERG - 1932-1941: also played for the Browns from 41-48 and is a lifetime .312 hitter with 401 homers and 1,515 rbi's. Had 2,171 career hits. Was AL MVP for Detroit in 1939 and a 6 time all-star.

#6 - AL KALINE - 1953-1972: played all but 42 of his 3,120 career MLB games for Detroit. Finished career with a half-season for Dodgers. Lifetime .298 hitter with 3,430 career hits and 436 homeruns. Never played a post-season game with Tigers but was 2-for-3 as a pinch-hitter for Dodgers in 1972 playoffs. Hall of Famer is an 8 time all-star.

#8 - LEFTY WILLIAMS- 1913-1928: Hall of Famer spent entire career in Detroit and likely most responsible for the Tigers dynasty of the 1920's. He won 3 Cy Young Awards and finished with a 258-173 lifetime record. Was 6-3 in World Series games. Won 5 World Series rings and had six 20-win seasons.

#16 - HAL NEWHOUSER - 1939-1956: Hall of Famer spent entire career in Detroit and was 232-124 overall plus 1-1 in his only World Series appearances in 1946. A 4-time Cy Young winner and 11 time all-star, Newhouser had successive seasons starting in 1944 of 20-12, 26-11, 25-8 and 26-9. Led the AL in K's 4 times, wins and era 3 times each.

#19 - BILLY PIERCE - 1948-1966 : Pitched for Detroit from 1948-57 before moving on to the Yankees and finally expansion Houston. Hall of Famer was 182-136 for his career including back to back 22 win seasons for Detroit in 1953-54. Won two Cy Young Awards while with the Tigers and was a five time all-star (all with Detroit)

#29- MICKEY LOLICH - 1963-1976: 4 time all-star suffered through some bad Detroit teams but pitched all but his final season (Mets) with Detroit, going 206-174 for his career. Never appeared in a post-season game. Fanned 2958 (25th all-time) in his career.


#43 - TY COBB - 1905-1929: Hall of Famer spent his entire 3,181 career games in a Detroit uniform. Is the all-time hit leader with 4,281 and 6th all-time with 853 stolen bases (Rickey Henderson stole 1,329). Won 5 World Series titles, 3 MVPs, 3 batting crowns, a rookie of the year and 18 all-star appearances. Hit .297 in 33 career World Series games.

#69 - HEINIE MANUSH - 1923-1939- Actually spent more time with White Sox than Detroit (1923-30) but was a big piece at the end of the Tigers 1920s dynasty. 1880 career games, 2,426 hits with a lifetime .355 batting average. Won 3 World Series titles with Detroit and was a 4-time all-star. Hit .306 in 14 career World Series games. Fell short of the Hall of Fame topping out at 43% of the ballots in 1954.


I would make a case that Schoolboy Rowe belongs on the retired number list and likely Mike Schmidt as well. In the era of free agency, Schmidt, like Tram, Whitaker, Parrish, Morris, etc did not spend enough years in Detroit before moving on so I assume that is why none of them nor Schmidt made the list.


Tigers final numbers are : 6 World Series titles and 12 playoff appearances.

Here are the 9 players who's numbers were retired by Detroit and 2 more who probably deserve the honour as well.
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