Why does David Eckstein still have a job?

[enuttage]

For those in the WHBL, please ignore my crosspost.

On Eckstein:

He's absolutely horrible.

He comes in on the bottom-half of most offensive categories at SS (2004) including being one or two slots from dead last in OPS for qualified shortstops, his fielding RF is at or below the league average every year, and yet he's consistently held up as an example of a 'scrappy' (read: good) baseball player.

Does he have THAT many intangibles? I mean I've seen the guy play. He's fun to watch. But who cares. Lots of guys have been fun to watch over the years.

I'm just flipping through articles and wondering why this man is still in the bigs, much less starting for one of the better teams in baseball. Meanwhile, folks are continuing to second-guess the LA Angels replacing him with a considerably more capable Orlando Cabrera.

What am I missing?

-E

[bulldog55]

He googled "easy shortstop jobs," of course.

[UngratefulDead]

Nobody grounds out to second as scrappily as David Eckstein. Blasphemy!

[IatricSB]

Originally Posted by enuttage

For those in the WHBL, please ignore my crosspost.

On Eckstein:

He's absolutely horrible.

He comes in on the bottom-half of most offensive categories at SS (2004) including being one or two slots from dead last in OPS for qualified shortstops, his fielding RF is at or below the league average every year, and yet he's consistently held up as an example of a 'scrappy' (read: good) baseball player.

Does he have THAT many intangibles? I mean I've seen the guy play. He's fun to watch. But who cares. Lots of guys have been fun to watch over the years.

I'm just flipping through articles and wondering why this man is still in the bigs, much less starting for one of the better teams in baseball. Meanwhile, folks are continuing to second-guess the LA Angels replacing him with a considerably more capable Orlando Cabrera.

What am I missing?

-E

I wish I knew why he's a starter. I thought he made a good bench player and clubhouse guy, but I hated seeing him out there at Short for the Angels. It was fun watching him try to throw the ball across the infield, but apart from that I'm not sure what his worth was. But all my Angel buddies disagree (with no reason other than their love of Eck).

[enuttage]

What's St. Louis paying this guy, anyway?

I saw he was making over $2M with Anaheim last year. Wow. Just. Wow. All is not right with baseball salaries, for sure.

Many thought Kaz Matsui had an 'off' year last year. He looked great compared to Eckstein. Royce Clayton looked All-Star caliber.

-E

[dsvitak]

With the caveat that there are MANY shortstops I would rather have....

OBP will be around .350 for the year. Not awful, and in this lineup, a shoo-in to score 110 runs.

The very finest fielding percentage in the major leagues at his position.

SIX errors for the year, in over 500 total chances. Sure, his range factor wasn't high....but he ain't gonna throw the ball into the seats...and Rolen's exceptional range will partially mask this lack of range.

He appears to have a GREAT attitude, and is a welcome addition to the Cardinals clubhouse.

He is 8 million dollars a year cheaper than Renteria. There ain't 8 million dollars LESS value between the two.

The 8 million dollars allowed them to acquire Mulder from the A's.

I don't know about you, but I would rather have Eckstein/Mulder than Renteria/whothe****knows.

Sling your arrows, throw your stones...he is a decent player for the money.

[Davey Eckstein]

...

[dsvitak]

Did I mention that he is the very toughest player in the major leagues to strike out?

Did I mention that he has one of the very finest pitches seen/at bat ratio in the majors? He personally saw 25 pitches over the course of a game the other day. This is very underrated. If you get into the Cubs bullpen, you're gonna win.

[enuttage]

Originally Posted by dsvitak

He is 8 million dollars a year cheaper than Renteria. There ain't 8 million dollars LESS value between the two.

You are absolutely right about that!

I just can't believe they couldn't've found someone better. And the fielding percentage is, um, kinda arbitrary.

Even the RF doesn't tell the full story, but I'm buying into the argument that it matters more.

[Davey Eckstein]

Oh, and by the way, I disagree with you strongly.

He hits .270+, gets on base a lot, rarely strikes out, swipes some bags and his a very good fielder (RF is garbage). He has no power, and probably isn't an all-star, but he's a good player. Hustles his anus off.

Why does he have a job? Because the Card's GM knows who to go for.

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by enuttage

Meanwhile, folks are continuing to second-guess the LA Angels replacing him with a considerably more capable Orlando Cabrera.

What am I missing?

A hell of a lot, if you think Orlando Cabrera is a better player than Eckstein.

Look up and compare the two lifetime batting average. I'll wait. Hmmm...I'll save you the trouble.

Eckstein .278
Cabrera .268

Hmmm....it must be the OBP.
Eckstein .347
Cabrera .316

.316? This sucks. Hard. 39 walks in 670+ plate appearances.

They are different type of players. If you need a seventh place hitter, with a small amount of pop in his bat, and you need a decent fielder, then MAYBE Cabrera is a better deal.

If you need a lead-off hitter, and defense isn't critical, then a better call is Eckstein.

You want to see Cabrera as a lead-off hitter? Look at Louie Aparacio's stats.

Oh...Cabrera is a year older.

[enuttage]

Originally Posted by dsvitak

Did I mention that he is the very toughest player in the major leagues to strike out?

Did I mention that he has one of the very finest pitches seen/at bat ratio in the majors? He personally saw 25 pitches over the course of a game the other day. This is very underrated. If you get into the Cubs bullpen, you're gonna win.

Elaborate. I understand that with pitch counts enforced the way that they are, he's going to help get into someone's bullpen sooner, but...I dunno if that's really worth it.

Or is it...



If he followed up by actually walking now and then, his OBP would be better. His career OBP is .349, but it hasn't been that good the past two years.

I just think he's pretty damn bad, overall.

-E

[enuttage]

Good point on the Cabrera career comparison.

I think part of my problem was that I was looking at stats mainly from the past two years.

Cabrera is wildly inconsistent, which makes him a huge gamble. Will he be Cabrera 2004 (not great), or Cabrera 2003 (pretty damn good)?

Eckstein is pretty damn consistent, so I definitely see the appeal there. Though his '03 stats pale in comparison to Cabrera. Career stats show Eckstein was better in the past, and Cabrera was worse. Eckstein's '02 brings his last two year up a bit. Cabrera's '03 brings his up some.

I'm beginning to see the value some see in Eck with your help. Thanks guys.

I still think he's a bit overrated, and probably overpaid (still not sure what he's making), but I can see the upside now.

-E

[<o>]

Originally Posted by enuttage

Why does David Eckstein still have a job?

Because you obviously didn't tryout for enough teams.

[Joe Morgan]

David Eckstein may not be the best shortstop in baseball but he is a magnificent ballplayer. He's the type of guy I would pick for my team every time. David is the perfect leadoff hitter. He's quick, he's scrappy and he's a sparkplug. What he lacks in ability he makes up for by hustling and working his tail off. He is an inspiration to everyone else on his team and makes them all work that much harder. Intangibles like that are priceless and for the small salary he's making he would be one of my top picks if I was drafting a team. He might not have the defence of a Derek Jeter or the offense of an Edgar Renteria but he is a solid and underated shortstop.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by dsvitak

If you need a lead-off hitter, and defense isn't critical, then a better call is Eckstein.

When is defense NOT critical at the SS posistion?
Lets try and keep some sanity here.

[enuttage]

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

When it defense NOT critical at the SS posistion?
Lets try and keep some sanity here.

lol. Yeah, there is that.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by Joe Morgan

David Eckstein may not be the best shortstop in baseball but he is a magnificent ballplayer. He's the type of guy I would pick for my team every time. David is the perfect leadoff hitter. He's quick, he's scrappy and he's a sparkplug. What he lacks in ability he makes up for by hustling and working his tail off. He is an inspiration to everyone else on his team and makes them all work that much harder. Intangibles like that are priceless and for the small salary he's making he would be one of my top picks if I was drafting a team. He might not have the defence of a Derek Jeter or the offense of an Edgar Renteria but he is a solid and underated shortstop.

best.alias.ever

[Davey Eckstein]

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

When it defense NOT critical at the SS posistion?
Lets try and keep some sanity here.

When you have Rolen at third.

[bulldog55]

Originally Posted by Joe Morgan

He might not have the defence of a Derek Jeter

Roffle. Nice touch.