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Old 10-14-2009, 02:59 PM   #61
Solonor
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Originally Posted by BMW View Post
Doesn't it inhibit the ability to do some key things, like signing players to contract extensions?

Even if the Morale doesn't do anything tangible or seem to do anything tangible, I still maintain that the DL activation issue should be addressed there. If it's the case that Morale does too little, that's a problem with the Morale system, not the components that feed the Morale ratings.
I probably overstepped in lumping Morale with the rest of those attributes. Morale can make the player refuse to negotiate with you. So, I guess he could get in a snit and not sign with you.

Then again, if he's so worthless that you leave him on the DL when he's healthy, then why would you want to sign him to anything other than a minor league contract?
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Old 10-14-2009, 03:00 PM   #62
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I've seen the forms are printed in the CBA.

But, I don't think you need to worry about filing a false report.

These guys are professional athletes and have been playing for 10, 20, 30+ years. There's so much wear and tear on their bodies that I'm sure that the most reputable doctors would have no problems finding real injuries that could be used to DL a player for virtually anyone in pro ball.

That's why I mention that it comes down to player personalities; it's really the player that's going to push for the second opinion that says he can or cannot play, not the league mandating that the player come off the DL on a certain day. Theoretically, the latter could happen. But in reality, I think any disputes of "I need to come off the DL" are always played out between the team and player.

They may be out there, but I honestly can not think of a time that I've ever heard the league, on its own, mandating a player come off the DL. And even if there was, I doubt that would bring the percentage of league-initiated activations above a negligible percentage.
The league doesn't need to enforce any actions - it comes down to a grievance filed with the players union that the team would lose. I think we may be misunderstanding eachother.

Think of it this way:
You're a baseball player in the major leagues. You have a contract that will eventually expire. In most contracts, you have various performance incentives.

You get hurt, and the team puts you on the DL. You get healthy enough to play, but the team decides to keep you on the DL because, perhaps, they're giving another player some playing time to see what he's got. You lose out on some playing time to reach those incentives, and the additional time on the DL and lack of performance during your hiatus can also impact future salary negotiations in relation to how much other teams feel you're worth. So, you would file a grievance with the players union and they seek compensation not only based on whatever salary risers you may miss out on but also on how it could impact your future. The numbers add up very quickly once the lawyers get involved.

The team could try to fight the grievance by saying it was in connection to some wear and tear that you'd suffered in the past, except that wouldn't have been what was filed on the original issue to place you on the DL. So in that case a new injury or an aggravation of an old one can occur, at which point a new form needs to be filed. Furthermore, assuming you don't want to sit around the house all summer long, you also have the right to a second opinion. If the team was fighting this, the front office would also face a crisis with signing free agents. If they'd be willing to do something to hurt your career just to work around a few rules, most players out there would give pause before signing on the dotted line with them. Their agents would DEFINITELY remember.

That's the short of why teams don't extend DL stints without legitimate reasons.

All that said, OOTP doesn't have anything that resembles rehab. Rehab stints can and often are extended beyond what is originally assessed. However, that falls under the same umbrella as the player is still considered to be on the DL until the rehab time is over and the player rejoins the 25-man roster. Furthermore, this is all based up on a real world environment - if you have a fictional league in a fictional world, I'd sure like it if that was a world where you didn't have to worry about unions and lawyers and agents. We'd all be a lot happier there.

So I fully support the notion of making it an option and in those cases the personality factors would make sense, but I wanted to explain that it wasn't something that actually occurs in real life.
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Old 10-14-2009, 03:19 PM   #63
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There adding Little Features and not ones that you can't wait for.
Pushing it back means more things can be added or fixed and that's good.
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Old 10-14-2009, 03:22 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Solonor View Post
I probably overstepped in lumping Morale with the rest of those attributes. Morale can make the player refuse to negotiate with you. So, I guess he could get in a snit and not sign with you.

Then again, if he's so worthless that you leave him on the DL when he's healthy, then why would you want to sign him to anything other than a minor league contract?
That's the player's problem. Just like all sports, how many "second" chances you get is related to your talent. How much clout you have is related to your talent.

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The league doesn't need to enforce any actions - it comes down to a grievance filed with the players union that the team would lose. I think we may be misunderstanding eachother.

I fully support the notion of making [mandatory DL activation] an option and in those cases the personality factors would make sense, but I wanted to explain that it wasn't something that actually occurs in real life.
I completely understand you. I'm just saying that the grievance that would be filed is a Player-Team interaction, not a League-Team interaction. I agree with you on that too - it's just that OOTP doesn't have player grievances.

Currently, the MLB DL is largely self-regulated by the players based on how much fuss they want to put up. Injuries in real-life are not an On/Off thing like in a video game.

If the Mets wanted keep Daniel Murphy on the DL a day or two longer because they wanted to make sure he was closer to 100% and it fit into their roster situation, I think they could and would. And Murphy would agree to a certain point (i.e. Morale).

David Wright obviously wasn't having it, and wanted to come back as soon as possible. He would have put up a huge issue if he had been kept on the DL all season. He maintained he was ready to play the next day. Note that he was put on the DL on August 16. He came back September 1st. Count the number of days. 16 days, not 15. Even after that fuss that he put up, he was willing to wait one extra day for the rosters to expand on September 1st.

That's why it's good to have it as a hard-and-fast league rule and you can see that even the noisiest players aren't filing grievances the minute they are eligible to return.

Making the game stop when it hits a certain day to say David Wright must come off the DL isn't realistic. It would be most realistic if he threatened to file a grievance after a while, but this isn't really in the game in any way, and I don't know that it's a feature I'd be clamoring for.

Using the Morale system to say "David Wright is demanding a trade" after you leave him on the DL for a month longer than he'd like is probably the best way to address this within the ways that OOTP currently works.

Last edited by BMW; 10-14-2009 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 10-14-2009, 03:31 PM   #65
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Rich Aurilia was on the DL for most of the year, before being recalled when the rosters expanded.

Most thought it was a phantom injury and his surly "no comment" supported this theory. No grievance was filed. Personally I was happy to see him off the roster, and this way he got to finish his career a Giant (would anyone other than Bochy have even extended his career this year?)
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Old 10-14-2009, 04:18 PM   #66
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Glad to see we understand eachother, BMW. As I've noted elsewhere - sometimes the voices in my head are so loud I just assume everyone else can hear them.

As for this situation:
Quote:
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Rich Aurilia was on the DL for most of the year, before being recalled when the rosters expanded.

Most thought it was a phantom injury and his surly "no comment" supported this theory. No grievance was filed. Personally I was happy to see him off the roster, and this way he got to finish his career a Giant (would anyone other than Bochy have even extended his career this year?)
That was something where he likely wouldn't have had a team to go to, nor access to the same advantages that he enjoyed for the rest of the season. It was a special circumstance that helped the player significantly more than the team, and that's why a greivance wasn't filed (nothing to complain about). As such, I don't think we'd be able to emulate such things within the confines of OOTP (where every GM is a heartless jerk, lol). I didn't know the guy, but I felt for him - that man had one miserable year (off and on the field).
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Old 10-14-2009, 04:38 PM   #67
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Glad to see we understand eachother, BMW. As I've noted elsewhere - sometimes the voices in my head are so loud I just assume everyone else can hear them.
That's Malleus.
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Old 10-14-2009, 06:29 PM   #68
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That's Malleus.
I've always suspected ...
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