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Old 11-24-2004, 05:20 PM   #101
wireman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarinerGM
There is a bigger issue at hand here

Is it better to let an incompetent GM run a team and not hurt his feelings
or
Is it better to replace him with someone who understands things a tad better but you have to hurt the original Gm's feelings.

Most of you tend to think option A is the better route , i think it depends on the situation, if your in a league with 29 guys who all know what they are doing, I think option B is the better route, although the more difficult road to travel as evidenced by this thread.

Its a matter of opinion, and everyone is entitled to theirs. I think i've beaten this topic into the ground enough, and i have run out of things to say, i wish everyone the best of luck in their respective leagues, and i now emabark on the dreaded pre thanksgiving commute. Happy Thanksgiving everyone.
I see you're having Straw Man for Thanksgiving.

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Old 11-24-2004, 05:25 PM   #102
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Quote:
Trade 1:
Bartolo Colon and David Eckstein for 3.5 million with Rockies

Trade 2: with Mets
Bernie Williams and Wang for David Wheeler and Tyler Davidson

Trade 3: with Padres
Edwin Jackson and eric Duncan for Carlos Silva, Aaron Fultz, and 3.5 million
Trade 1 - decent trade. Colon is 31 and got shelled the season before. Eckstein is a mediocre SS. $8m saved and $3.5m cah.

Trade 2 - damn fine trade. Williams is in decline and costs $8.4. Wang is a mediocre MR prospect at best - possibly the 3rd or 4th guy in long relief. Wheeler is a MR who could be a damn fine 6 inning SP or a great 1st guy out of the bullpen. Davidson is going to be a monster - 97 power. Only 24, use spring training to reduce defence (make him a DH) and pump up discipline and contact.

Trade 3 - I wouldnt have traded Jackson. End of story. Duncan is a scrub. Silva is decent and Fultz is a good #3 in the rotation, but neither of them are worth Jackson. But its hardly a rape and pillage, just not a good trade. Everyone is entitled to make bad trades - we have all made them in out careers.

So... why is this owner incompetent? Trade 1 and 2 are good trades, and only Trade 3 is a real head-scratcher.
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Old 11-24-2004, 05:29 PM   #103
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Ok, here goes. The league is getting a black eye and so be it. As I said everyone has different opionion on how things should be run. Of the 28 other GM's in the league, only one expressed concern immediately, two others said they were surprised but trust my judgement. Both of those thought the trades to be bad and needed to be vetoed. We don't want to have to veto trades and as Jeff has pointed out before only one was ever vetoed and was quickly reworked. Andrew didn't see a need to rework his deals. We have had several newbies in our league before and never had this problem. I got messages from my GM's saying look at these trades, are you really going to allow these to go through. So here I have one new GM who has just joined and 20 some other GM's asking me what is this guy doing. Not one of the teams he traded with complained about the traded being vetoed, but would have been upset if we vetoed them and let him remain running a team. People were saying things to me along the lines of you can't protect him from his own stupidity and this guy is not a competent GM. I have great GM's in this league who are active and what I consider to be intelligent baseball people. We talked about different ways that we could work with him but is that fair to himself or the league if we have to babysit and watch what he does. I have a league of 28 other dedicated and active GM's. Most all of whom took offense to these trades. The move was discussed for hours and hours between the two commishes and several GM's. It was determined that it was in the best interest to let Andrew go. This discussion included teams he made trades with. We are a very freindly but competitive league. It is not that we want teams to be run as they are in real life, but we do expect GM's to make trades that benefit their teams. As I said 20 some GM's and even the teams that he traded with could not understand his moves. We do have a trade comittee in place in case questionable trades are made. Only once or twice in the first year of more than 100 trades was it ever used. Only one trade was turned down. It must be agreed upon 100% for a trade to be vetoed. I think that provides a good checks and balance system. Again you can badmouth us all you want, and from the outsiders perspective it probably does look bad. But I have 26 other GM's that did not question the move whatsoever. People in my leagues compliment me on how the league is run. I will continue to do what is in the best interest of my league and my Gm's. If that makes me a bad guy or a bad league so be it.
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Old 11-24-2004, 05:34 PM   #104
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I highly doubt that 26 teams told you all of that because I talked to a few and they either said that the trades were fine or that they were indifferent.

And look at those export numbers. Many teams havent made exports in a week, two weeks or even three. Those memebers could not have all said something
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Old 11-24-2004, 05:37 PM   #105
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I don't think it necessarily makes yours a bad league, and it certainly doesn't make you a bad guy. But it's not a league I'd ever want to touch with a ten-foot pole. In the future, you might warn prospective owners that you have a tendency to carefully scrutinize the trades of new owners and to throw them out of the league if their thinking is different from that of the rest of the league.
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Old 11-24-2004, 05:42 PM   #106
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i have been removed from leagues for being too good

i was in a league where i won 140 games and was removed

in another league i won the world series for 5 seasons in a row and was removed

greatness creates jealously in those who want to be me
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Old 11-24-2004, 05:42 PM   #107
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Your veto committee and your other owners must have serious blinders on. If the trades were so blatantly wrong that everyone in your league agreed that they should not go through, then why has the consensus here, among completely NEUTRAL parties, been that they were perfectly good trades. In fact, the consensus here is that Trade #2 was a great move on his part.

You keep saying how you have 28 other guys who are so great and so smart and that this one guy was incompetent. I find it really odd that you just happen to have the ONLY 28 guys around who feel so strongly about this guy.

Why don't you just tell it how it is and say that everyone in your league expects the person who is running The Yankees to run them in a specific way, and that anyone who interferes with that will be strongly scrutinized.

The fact that these trades are NOT grossly unfair and you claim that this is the only time you've had a problem, barring one other event, it just shows that there was a heavy bias against this GM from the start. I would think that someone in your league simply doesn't like the guy and he took advantage to rally the troops to get him run out of your league the first chance he got.

Something certainly doesn't add up, and the only defense the "League" has given against the trade is "the other owners couldn't understand them". There must be reasoning why these 28 supposed "Great" owners took offense to a seemingly decent management of a team. The GM had no problem explaining his reasoning behind them, but noone has offered any reasoning against them. Oh, The Yankees were brought up several times and the fact that they have a grossly unfair monetary advantage was, but if you only wanted him to better his team, what difference does it make if he increases or decreases payroll, as long as he improves the talent. This is what he did as several people pointed to.
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Old 11-24-2004, 05:46 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdGien
i have been removed from leagues for being too good

i was in a league where i won 140 games and was removed

in another league i won the world series for 5 seasons in a row and was removed

greatness creates jealously in those who want to be me
Please, for the love of God, if you insist on using this poorly executed trolling alias, recreate it with the name spelled correctly. Besides, Ed Gein wouldn't know how to turn on a computer, let alone post on a message board.
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Old 11-24-2004, 05:47 PM   #109
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i fully support rewc27 and lend my good name to his defense

his league is a great league and i suggest people join and find out the truth
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Old 11-24-2004, 05:47 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdGien
i have been removed from leagues for being too good

i was in a league where i won 140 games and was removed

in another league i won the world series for 5 seasons in a row and was removed

greatness creates jealously in those who want to be me
Wow if that was rel life, the Yankees woudl ahve been gone by the 30's

Perosnally I like when teams are able to be the team to beat for years at a time, even more so when they're mine. I find it adds more character to a legue then NFL type parity.

Of course I speak from historical leagues. Today's buy everyone that's good leagues well...not exactly my cup of tea
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Old 11-24-2004, 05:47 PM   #111
Dean Gordon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rewc27
People were saying things to me along the lines of you can't protect him from his own stupidity and this guy is not a competent GM.
Wow.

In all my years of commishing, in the thousands of trades over the 60+ seasons, I have never, ever had another owner say this. Never. At worst, they might say that the trade is one-sided and for me to take a look at it.

I would seriously question the competence of the other owners of the league if any of them said this to you. How is trade #1 or trade #2 incompetent? Trade #3 is questionable, but hell - its not a rape and pillage. Not even close.

As commish, you should have talked to the owner after Trade #3 and asked him his strategy - rebuild, reload or retool. Got a feeling for what he wants to do with the team. Hell - you should have gotten this from him when he joined. After the trade was made - and there is no way the trade is voidable - then you should have told him that, since he was a newbie, that you would keep an eye on his trades, as per the league rules (which should read somthing like this [from the NABL Rules]: "I trust that all GMs will act in their own best interest and not give another GM a gold-plated trade. That being said, the league will review any trade that is obviously and hideously stacked. Any rejected trade – and really, it would have to be god-awfully one-sided to be rejected – will have to be reworked by the owners involved or else will be voided."). If Trade #4 is questionable, then you could ask him what the hell he is doing and to rework the trade.

But to kick him out over Trades 1-3? Dude - that was wrong.
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Old 11-24-2004, 05:51 PM   #112
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Maybe I missed something, but the termination e-mail lists four trades while only three are being discussed.
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Old 11-24-2004, 05:54 PM   #113
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I only made three trades, but he sees four bad trades in those
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