Too many leagues? Too many non-committed owners? - Page 2

Total Nirvana · 01-30-2003, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by holyroller
Well, I don't if you are good commish or not, but you are an excellent thread-jacker

Thats a first

Total Nirvana · 01-30-2003, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SimSportsWorld
Might be best to ask your league, as they have dealt with you first hand, and plus I don't know anything about your commishing skills

First, you prolly havent been on this message board enough to know about the things that I had to go against. Stealing the iMLB site, talking a little too much, and such and such not. I think I have matured a a commissioner, and I think I'm running a very good league. All i'm wondering is if that has still some impact on my "repulation" as a commissioner on this board.

Aussie Mark · 01-30-2003, 06:26 PM

Finding good leagues can involve some trial and error, but after awhile you are able to recognise some familiar names on the owner page. I'm much more comfortable joining a new league if I know some of the other owners from other leagues.

And as Satchel quite rightly points out, the number of leagues an owner can handle depends on the individual. I've recently joined two more leagues, but this is balanced by the fact that one of the other leagues I'm in (TMSL) is in recess due to the Commish's health problems.

I'm in 2 "Cooley leagues", the brand new UBL and the HHBC (the merger of the fomer Heritage and Hometown leagues), however Cooley has passed the baton to another Commish for the HHBC.

Another league I'm in (MLB1966) has had 3 Commishes over 15 seasons, and is another great example of a league eventually becoming bigger than a Commish.

Again, Satchel hits the nail on the head when he says that great leagues are the ones that can continue no matter who is the Commish - which reflects the strength of the owners.

LivnLegend · 01-30-2003, 06:39 PM

My personal opinion is there are not too many leagues but that is only because so many have folded in the past year since OOTP4 came out. The amount of leagues that have opened in the past year were too many and that's a large part of the reason so many did not survive. I have a folder in my Favorites that contains a literal alphabet soup of closed leagues (UBL, TFTA, CBL, and many others you've never heard of).

There will never be a shortage of new leagues starting up and imagine the flood that will hit when OOTP5 is on the market this spring. All in all, it's not necessarily a bad thing that too many leagues start up -- a few will be very, very good and the community is a better place for it. The biggest negative would be newer folks joining some of the poorly run leagues or leagues run by undedicated commissioners and having that experience leave a sour taste in their mouth which may cause them to shun online leagues or give bad word of mouth about the game.

The constant league openings themselves are not purely a cause of too many leagues. There are going to be some leagues, like the aforementioned ones in this thread, which will always be looking for owners/GMs because the commissioner will often take the first warm body that signs up. Those owners are often stopgaps used to plug a leak, not long-term solutions to a well-run league. I feel very fortunate in that with the USBA I have never had to advertise for replacement owners and I am blessed to have the best core group of GM’s in any online fictional baseball league. The amount of work and thought that my team owners put into the league is unmatched. A lot of this has to do with being choosy about the owners that are admitted and creating or maintaining a product that is attractive enough to be able discern quality owners among willing participants.

Total Nirvana · 01-30-2003, 06:50 PM

Here is a current problem with the USBL.

I'm having trouble having GMs post on the message board, without me having to tell the GMs to. I don't wanna seem like a mother or a father, but I don't wanna fire someone just because they are not posting on the message board. I wanna get them to post, I just don't know how.

holyroller · 01-30-2003, 06:57 PM

You can't make anyone post. If they want to post and have something to say they will. If they don't they won't, simple as that.

darkhorse · 01-30-2003, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by holyroller
If they want to post and have something to say they will. If they don't they won't, simple as that.

I say you're on to something.

Cooleyvol · 01-30-2003, 09:57 PM

I think its natural for people with similar tastes and mannerisms to 'move' towards each other............

That's how the "cliques" come about............

Now, on topic:

I don't think there are too many leagues starting up..........it takes the number of leagues we are seeing to start in order for the 'good' leagues to come about.

I'd be interested in knowing the % of leagues that actually 'make' it.

I will say that, mostly, the leagues that fold are the present day leagues with 30+ teams..........its next to impossible to find that many good owners at one time.................

Total Nirvana · 01-30-2003, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cooleyvol
I will say that, mostly, the leagues that fold are the present day leagues with 30+ teams..........its next to impossible to find that many good owners at one time.................

Talk to me off-board. You will be surprised on how many 30+ team leagues that I have seen fold in my days as a General Manager

IatricSB · 01-30-2003, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Total Nirvana
Here is a current problem with the USBL.

I'm having trouble having GMs post on the message board, without me having to tell the GMs to. I don't wanna seem like a mother or a father, but I don't wanna fire someone just because they are not posting on the message board. I wanna get them to post, I just don't know how.

From what I've seen in leagues, the people that do post I think get discouraged because very few people are reading the post. If you take a half hour to write and article and only 5 people read it, it's easy to get discouraged from posting again.

crackpott · 01-30-2003, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Total Nirvana
First, you prolly havent been on this message board enough to know about the things that I had to go against. Stealing the iMLB site, talking a little too much, and such and such not. I think I have matured a a commissioner, and I think I'm running a very good league. All i'm wondering is if that has still some impact on my "repulation" as a commissioner on this board.

Actually, I forgot all about that... thief.

satchel · 01-30-2003, 10:08 PM

I’d like to see the graveyard of dead leagues. It would be nice to have a database of used league acronyms to help stop duplication.

It reminds me of a story.
A student came to LivnLegend and asked: “If two leagues with the same initials started at the same time, could they both prosper?”
The master said, “Which would you join?”
Then, the student was enlightened.

satchel · 01-30-2003, 10:17 PM

Iatric that’s a good point too. It depends on the league of course. I’m more motivated to write when I think people will read it, and that’s more likely in a better league. That’s how these things feed upon themselves. The Commissioner puts that first idea in motion then more and more people contribute to it. Maybe there’s a critical mass of some characteristic that a league must overcome until it perpetuates what its participants envision. Groups with similar taste do band together, according to preferences for leagues with different in-game settings and different real-world attitudes.

Red Blow · 01-30-2003, 10:41 PM

There's a simple equation. I don't think I have ever seen it fail.

Consistent commissioner + Active owners = League success

Just like small businesses, there will be a constant rise and fall of new leagues. A few of the new ones will survive and make their mark upon the OOTP scene. It was the same with FPS, I am sure it was the same with all other game formats. Call it On-Line Darwinism.

As for encouraging posting, I would offer the following suggestions. One, encourage it. Two, model it. Three, give praise when it is done. Posting, at least in the NOBL, is quite contagious. I'd match my guys against anyone for quality and consistency of posting. While we do not average 10-25-50 posts a day, the 1-3 new messages we have each day are worthy of reading and not just "I own you", "You're gay." and "

". That is not directed at any other league, just a reflection of what I see in mine.

Finally, to promote more posting from all teams, I changed one of the promotional days to a monthly free Autograph Day. Teams that post one team news release each "month" of game time are eligible to set it. It's free and set to +100% attendance. The owners really like it. We had 100% participation in it last season (it was only offered once a year then), and had 13 of 20 (2 teams were vacant) for April of this year. We sim 3 games per day, 6 days per week, so it gives people more time to write articles.

There are several points in this post I agree with, mainly with Crackpott's belief that it takes a village to make a league successful and Aussie Mark's statement that it is up to the individual as to how many leagues they can be in. I do hate "ghosting" (being less active in a league while that team rebuilds through losing seasons and stockpiling rookies) but it cannot be helped sometimes.

darkhorse · 01-30-2003, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by satchel
I’d like to see the graveyard of dead leagues.[/size]

The OOTP server had quite a few dead leagues the last time I looked.

Total Nirvana · 01-30-2003, 11:53 PM

Thanks for that Red Blow...

Right now, I'm having a hard time getting GMs (If I do need any) I mean, I would normally post on this board, giving as much info to the public as possible, saying what teams are available, and an applacation to fill out. But, other leagues, they do almost the same thing, and t hey get a good amount of Applacants. I don't see why. I mean, the USBL is a simple 20 team league. don't think this league is any different then others that are listed on this board, but, there are leagues that GMs attract to. I really never get it, nor will I ever.

Batter UP · 01-31-2003, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Total Nirvana
Right now, I'm having a hard time getting GMs (If I do need any) I mean, I would normally post on this board, giving as much info to the public as possible, saying what teams are available, and an applacation to fill out. But, other leagues, they do almost the same thing, and t hey get a good amount of Applacants. I don't see why. I mean, the USBL is a simple 20 team league. don't think this league is any different then others that are listed on this board, but, there are leagues that GMs attract to. I really never get it, nor will I ever.

Here's a hint: Run your posts through a spell checker. I don't know you but the fact that you have that cartoon avatar, continue to sing the praises of a crappy band that was led by a guy who offed himself and elevated himself to "God" status amongst his fans by doing so, and seem to lack any grammar/spelling skills all adds up to a kid Commish who cannot be taken seriously. Again, I don't know you, you could be the best Commish in the business. But the impression people get could say otherwise.

Total Nirvana · 01-31-2003, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Batter UP
Here's a hint: Run your posts through a spell checker. I don't know you but the fact that you have that cartoon avatar, continue to sing the praises of a crappy band that was led by a guy who offed himself and elevated himself to "God" status amongst his fans by doing so, and seem to lack any grammar/spelling skills all adds up to a kid Commish who cannot be taken seriously. Again, I don't know you, you could be the best Commish in the business. But the impression people get could say otherwise.

Quote:

Originally posted by Batter UP

I don't know you but the fact that you have that cartoon avatar,

Maybe you haven't seen Jway's avatar

Quote:

Originally posted by Batter UP

continue to sing the praises of a crappy band that was led by a guy who offed himself and elevated himself to "God" status amongst his fans by doing so

You have alot to learn about Nirvana. Kurt didnt send himself up to "God" status, the fans elevated him up to that. The fans came to the band, not the band came to them, like these other crap band that you see on MTV

Quote:

Originally posted by Batter UP

and seem to lack any grammar/spelling skills all adds up to a kid Commish who cannot be taken seriously.

Typos my friend, typos. Can't get to them all...

I think everyone knows that first i'm not a kid. I go to college. I have a job. I try my best as a man, not as a kid. Is there the drawing line or something?

Batter UP · 01-31-2003, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Total Nirvana
Maybe you haven't seen Jway's avatar

To my knowledge he is not trying to recruit GM's for an online league.

Quote:

You have alot to learn about Nirvana. Kurt didnt send himself up to "God" status, the fans elevated him up to that. The fans came to the band, not the band came to them, like these other crap band that you see on MTV

See, there you go. You asked for honest advice but I don't think you really want to hear it. No one really cares about him except a few whack jobs. Is that who you want to be associated with?

Quote:

Typos my friend, typos. Can't get to them all...

Typos? Maybe but typos aren't what keeps you from not knowing how to spell "Applacants" several times in one post.

Quote:

I try my best as a man, not as a kid. Is there the drawing line or something?

HUH?

Total Nirvana · 01-31-2003, 01:09 AM

Heres the thing. I want to make sure that I clear up everyone's assuption of who and what I am. I wanna be able to present myself in a mature and ordely manner, but, still give out some of my personality. I don't wanna be like "oh yeah, this is the usbl, it's a such and such league, wish such and such" and so on. I just want to be understood. Thats all...

01-30-2003, 06:26 PM	#23
Aussie Mark Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Downunder Posts: 489	Finding good leagues can involve some trial and error, but after awhile you are able to recognise some familiar names on the owner page. I'm much more comfortable joining a new league if I know some of the other owners from other leagues. And as Satchel quite rightly points out, the number of leagues an owner can handle depends on the individual. I've recently joined two more leagues, but this is balanced by the fact that one of the other leagues I'm in (TMSL) is in recess due to the Commish's health problems. I'm in 2 "Cooley leagues", the brand new UBL and the HHBC (the merger of the fomer Heritage and Hometown leagues), however Cooley has passed the baton to another Commish for the HHBC. Another league I'm in (MLB1966) has had 3 Commishes over 15 seasons, and is another great example of a league eventually becoming bigger than a Commish. Again, Satchel hits the nail on the head when he says that great leagues are the ones that can continue no matter who is the Commish - which reflects the strength of the owners. __________________ Cheers Mark

01-30-2003, 06:39 PM	#24
LivnLegend Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: 100% pure adrenaline! Posts: 5,624	My personal opinion is there are not too many leagues but that is only because so many have folded in the past year since OOTP4 came out. The amount of leagues that have opened in the past year were too many and that's a large part of the reason so many did not survive. I have a folder in my Favorites that contains a literal alphabet soup of closed leagues (UBL, TFTA, CBL, and many others you've never heard of). There will never be a shortage of new leagues starting up and imagine the flood that will hit when OOTP5 is on the market this spring. All in all, it's not necessarily a bad thing that too many leagues start up -- a few will be very, very good and the community is a better place for it. The biggest negative would be newer folks joining some of the poorly run leagues or leagues run by undedicated commissioners and having that experience leave a sour taste in their mouth which may cause them to shun online leagues or give bad word of mouth about the game. The constant league openings themselves are not purely a cause of too many leagues. There are going to be some leagues, like the aforementioned ones in this thread, which will always be looking for owners/GMs because the commissioner will often take the first warm body that signs up. Those owners are often stopgaps used to plug a leak, not long-term solutions to a well-run league. I feel very fortunate in that with the USBA I have never had to advertise for replacement owners and I am blessed to have the best core group of GM’s in any online fictional baseball league. The amount of work and thought that my team owners put into the league is unmatched. A lot of this has to do with being choosy about the owners that are admitted and creating or maintaining a product that is attractive enough to be able discern quality owners among willing participants. __________________ Excess ain't rebellion. You're drinking what they're selling.

01-30-2003, 06:50 PM	#25
Total Nirvana All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 750	Here is a current problem with the USBL. I'm having trouble having GMs post on the message board, without me having to tell the GMs to. I don't wanna seem like a mother or a father, but I don't wanna fire someone just because they are not posting on the message board. I wanna get them to post, I just don't know how. __________________ Total Hockey Commissioner Your Off-Topic Nightmare. Free Agent OT Player - Plays 1B/3B/OF, hits for power on all fields, great fielder, can hit .330 a season!

01-30-2003, 06:57 PM	#26
holyroller Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: OTBL Forums Posts: 3,532	You can't make anyone post. If they want to post and have something to say they will. If they don't they won't, simple as that. __________________ Back to work, but not drawing a paycheck. TonyJ et. al.'s alias “I confused it with the chicken’s neck,” Mocanu, who was admitted to the emergency hospital in Galati, was quoted as saying. “I cut it ... and the dog rushed and ate it.”

01-30-2003, 10:08 PM	#32
satchel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ft Smith AR Posts: 2,681	I’d like to see the graveyard of dead leagues. It would be nice to have a database of used league acronyms to help stop duplication. It reminds me of a story. A student came to LivnLegend and asked: “If two leagues with the same initials started at the same time, could they both prosper?” The master said, “Which would you join?” Then, the student was enlightened. __________________ JL Commish NPBL Rhode Island Reds ’33 ’34 ’35 TCBA San Francisco Railbornes ’74 ’76 ’77 ’78 FL New Orleans Black Sox ’56 ’57 ’58 ’59

01-30-2003, 09:57 PM	#28
Cooleyvol Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Union City, TN Posts: 6,383	I think its natural for people with similar tastes and mannerisms to 'move' towards each other............ That's how the "cliques" come about............ Now, on topic: I don't think there are too many leagues starting up..........it takes the number of leagues we are seeing to start in order for the 'good' leagues to come about. I'd be interested in knowing the % of leagues that actually 'make' it. I will say that, mostly, the leagues that fold are the present day leagues with 30+ teams..........its next to impossible to find that many good owners at one time.................

01-30-2003, 10:17 PM	#33
satchel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ft Smith AR Posts: 2,681	Reading. Iatric that’s a good point too. It depends on the league of course. I’m more motivated to write when I think people will read it, and that’s more likely in a better league. That’s how these things feed upon themselves. The Commissioner puts that first idea in motion then more and more people contribute to it. Maybe there’s a critical mass of some characteristic that a league must overcome until it perpetuates what its participants envision. Groups with similar taste do band together, according to preferences for leagues with different in-game settings and different real-world attitudes. __________________ JL Commish NPBL Rhode Island Reds ’33 ’34 ’35 TCBA San Francisco Railbornes ’74 ’76 ’77 ’78 FL New Orleans Black Sox ’56 ’57 ’58 ’59

01-30-2003, 10:41 PM	#34
Red Blow Major Leagues Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 404	There's a simple equation. I don't think I have ever seen it fail. Consistent commissioner + Active owners = League success Just like small businesses, there will be a constant rise and fall of new leagues. A few of the new ones will survive and make their mark upon the OOTP scene. It was the same with FPS, I am sure it was the same with all other game formats. Call it On-Line Darwinism. As for encouraging posting, I would offer the following suggestions. One, encourage it. Two, model it. Three, give praise when it is done. Posting, at least in the NOBL, is quite contagious. I'd match my guys against anyone for quality and consistency of posting. While we do not average 10-25-50 posts a day, the 1-3 new messages we have each day are worthy of reading and not just "I own you", "You're gay." and "". That is not directed at any other league, just a reflection of what I see in mine. Finally, to promote more posting from all teams, I changed one of the promotional days to a monthly free Autograph Day. Teams that post one team news release each "month" of game time are eligible to set it. It's free and set to +100% attendance. The owners really like it. We had 100% participation in it last season (it was only offered once a year then), and had 13 of 20 (2 teams were vacant) for April of this year. We sim 3 games per day, 6 days per week, so it gives people more time to write articles. There are several points in this post I agree with, mainly with Crackpott's belief that it takes a village to make a league successful and Aussie Mark's statement that it is up to the individual as to how many leagues they can be in. I do hate "ghosting" (being less active in a league while that team rebuilds through losing seasons and stockpiling rookies) but it cannot be helped sometimes. __________________ http://www.nobl.net This is your father's league.

01-30-2003, 11:53 PM	#36
Total Nirvana All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 750	Thanks for that Red Blow... Right now, I'm having a hard time getting GMs (If I do need any) I mean, I would normally post on this board, giving as much info to the public as possible, saying what teams are available, and an applacation to fill out. But, other leagues, they do almost the same thing, and t hey get a good amount of Applacants. I don't see why. I mean, the USBL is a simple 20 team league. don't think this league is any different then others that are listed on this board, but, there are leagues that GMs attract to. I really never get it, nor will I ever. __________________ Total Hockey Commissioner Your Off-Topic Nightmare. Free Agent OT Player - Plays 1B/3B/OF, hits for power on all fields, great fielder, can hit .330 a season!

01-31-2003, 01:09 AM	#40
Total Nirvana All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 750	Heres the thing. I want to make sure that I clear up everyone's assuption of who and what I am. I wanna be able to present myself in a mature and ordely manner, but, still give out some of my personality. I don't wanna be like "oh yeah, this is the usbl, it's a such and such league, wish such and such" and so on. I just want to be understood. Thats all... __________________ Total Hockey Commissioner Your Off-Topic Nightmare. Free Agent OT Player - Plays 1B/3B/OF, hits for power on all fields, great fielder, can hit .330 a season!