"Pitch to Contact" leading to unrealistic BB/9 stats

[kcharles520]

When my pitcher gets 3 ball counts I almost always use "Pitch to Contact." I figured it was a fair, viable strategy--give the opponent easier pitches to hit while slightly reducing the walk rate. Fair tradeoff right?

After 40+ games of using the strategy however, my team has a super low BB/9 compared to the rest of the league, w/ no big difference in batting average against or slugging. In other words, pitch to contact has proven TOO effective, even for pitchers w/ awful control ratings. (I also have an abysmal K/9 rate which bugs me as well.)

Just wanted to bring this up for anyone looking for realistic stats because the way it is coded, this is definitely unrealistic.

[Number4]

Originally Posted by kcharles520

When my pitcher gets 3 ball counts I almost always use "Pitch to Contact." I figured it was a fair, viable strategy--give the opponent easier pitches to hit while slightly reducing the walk rate. Fair tradeoff right?

After 40+ games of using the strategy however, my team has a super low BB/9 compared to the rest of the league, w/ no big difference in batting average against or slugging. In other words, pitch to contact has proven TOO effective, even for pitchers w/ awful control ratings. (I also have an abysmal K/9 rate which bugs me as well.)

Just wanted to bring this up for anyone looking for realistic stats because the way it is coded, this is definitely unrealistic.

Significantly higher slugging though.

[kcharles520]

Ehh slightly higher slugging
whereas the walk rate is greg maddux-like for my entire staff

i'm probably going to start over my franchise because this is triggering bad stat-OCD in me lol

[Number4]

I don't think it's wrong, because every major league pitcher should be able to hit the strike zone if he aims just for it. However, one can argue that the opponents should hit and slug more than yours do.

[jpeters1734]

have you played out every game in pitch by pitch?

[Number4]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

have you played out every game in pitch by pitch?

No, only playoffs. I use pitch to contact sometimes, but I consider how powerful the batter is, whether a single is the same as a walk or if it advances other runners, how accurate the pitcher is, etc., before I pitch to contact. I tend to use it with 3 balls and in 2-0 counts then.

A lot of it depends on the control of the pitcher - with elite control pitchers I often even pitch around with good results.

[jpeters1734]

I'm confused then. How can you say the pitch to contact is The cause of those stats when you don't play out every game?

[Honorable_Pawn]

I play in pitch-by-pitch and this is one reason why I let the AI manger make the in-game decisions (excluding substitutions). I'd be way too tempted to use this cheat or the take-pitch cheat.

[MrBojangles]

Good to know! I'll use pitch to contact more often now

[Number4]

I do play playoff games in PBP, and I do sometimes switch a normal game to PBP if the situation warrants it. So I don't have stats, but I do have cirumstancial evidence about my pitchers performance from observation.

And it doesn't make really sense to program a function that improves pitchers performance by throwing less balls, while not making those pitches easier to hit for batters?

[MrWideFrame]

Originally Posted by Number4

No, only playoffs. I use pitch to contact sometimes, but I consider how powerful the batter is, whether a single is the same as a walk or if it advances other runners, how accurate the pitcher is, etc., before I pitch to contact. I tend to use it with 3 balls and in 2-0 counts then.

A lot of it depends on the control of the pitcher - with elite control pitchers I often even pitch around with good results.

Why are you answering for the OP?

[jpeters1734]

lol. I didn't realize that ��

[rpriske]

I use pitch-to-contact for one thing only... bases loaded.

Basically because bases-loaded walks really piss me off.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by kcharles520

Ehh slightly higher slugging
whereas the walk rate is greg maddux-like for my entire staff

i'm probably going to start over my franchise because this is triggering bad stat-OCD in me lol

Not only significantly higher slugging, worst in the league by .014 on average is not "slight", but massively, massively less K's as well as you point out. The low K's are a direct result of your strategy, and they only make sense. You're trading walks for K's and getting hit hard.

I don't think there's an issue here to be honest. You're simply willing to make a trade-off that real teams won't make, almost no walks in exchange for almost no K's and getting hit harder.

I'm pretty sure real teams could do this, they just choose not to because it doesn't work. And your results would tend to back that theory up, it's not like your team is winning all its games or getting great results, you're simply picking your poison, and would likely be far, far better off with a more traditional strategy.

Actually this is a strength of the game, not an issue, that you can sandbox crazy strategies and tactics and see how they play out in a believably realistic way

[jpeters1734]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Not only higher slugging, but massively, massively less K's as well.

I don't think there's an issue here to be honest. You're simply willing to make a trade-off that real teams won't make, almost no walks in exchange for almost no K's and getting hit harder.

I'm pretty sure real teams could do this, they just choose not to because it doesn't work. And your results would tend to back that theory up, it's not like your team is winning all its games or getting great results, you're simply picking your poison, and would likely be better off with a more traditional strategy.

Actually I think this is a strength of the game, not an issue, that you can sandbox crazy strategies and tactics and see how they play out in a believably realistic way

Great response!

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

Great response!

Thanks!

Basically the op is trying to break the game with an exploit here, but the game won't let him do it, but penalizes him in an accurate, realistic, believable manner.

That just shows how OOTP is a quality game with some quality coding!

[NoOne]

it looks like he's benefiting from a low babip, which isn't something you can depend on.

that 3.85 ERA is likely to rise. there's a reason that strategy isn't used as stated above. just like professional pitchers should be able to throw a strike, a professional batter can put good contact on balls safely in the strike zone. that slugging will be .400+ if you continue to do it religiously, which relative to the rest of the league is quite high.

and if the quality of his staff is high, he's underperforming significantly. that would be a key, too.

[kcharles520]

Originally Posted by jpeters1734

have you played out every game in pitch by pitch?

yea i played out every game pitch by pitch. i'd also guess that a large portion of my 43 walks are from pitching around great hitters w/ first base open, which i do quite frequently.

i guess the part i find most unrealistic is that some of my pitchers literally have 1 ratings for control (on 100 scale). and w/ "pitch to contact" they throw a strike almost every time regardless of their poor control. yes i want to reduce walks...but i don't want to *eliminate* them from happening entirely.

so in a way, the "pitch to contact" option nullifies the whole purpose of having a "control" rating to begin with IMO.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by kcharles520

so in a way, the "pitch to contact" option nullifies the whole purpose of having a "control" rating to begin with IMO.

Just don't use it in such an extreme manner then and you'll be fine You're using the option in a way it's not been designed to be used. The game is penalizing you for doing so, and what you're doing is not helping your team get an edge. So why keep doing it?

If you as an org either in game or irl make it a priority for your player to never throw balls and instead throw 85 MPH meatballs straight down the middle of the plate anytime they have a three ball count, your pitchers will follow orders and do so.

Typically poor control pitchers have poor control because they're overthrowing, they can't handle controlling the ball at their peak velocity. If they aren't throwing at max effort or anything close to it though, they can surely lob slow pitches over the middle of the plate all day long, no matter what their control is like when they're actually tying to pitch well.

You're making a radical choice, which the game allows you to do, but penalizes you for. This shows the game at its most flexible and realistic. So what's wrong here?

[Lukas Berger]

I also find it a bit curious that any of your pitchers would have 1 our of 100 control and would still be in MLB. A pitcher whose control is that bad shouldn't be able to even make the majors in OOTP, whatever his other attributes

Even if one outlier did make it, there shouldn't be multiple guys like that, though you indicate there are, which I don't really think is possible.