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Old 03-11-2016, 01:49 AM   #1
T.J. Lauerman
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16 in ’16: Baseball’s Tournament of Champions Teams Announcement

Using Out of the Park Baseball 17's new Historical Exhibition mode, we've teamed up with some of the most highly-respected baseball writers, commentators, former players, and digital media personalities to put together a tournament to determine the greatest baseball team ever.

Thanks to our selection committee made up of Tim Kurkjian (ESPN), Neil Paine (FiveThirtyEight), Mark Simon (ESPN), Brian Kenny (MLB Network), Ken Hirdt (Elias Sports Bureau), Rob Tracy (Elias Sports Bureau), CJ Nitkowski (MLB Analyst), Kat Bailey (Hit The Pass/US Gamer), and Gus Ramsey (Committee Chairman) we've put together the top 12 seeds for this tournament.

Check out our video reveal of the top 12 seeds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpEQ1SysTZ0

We need you to fill in the final 4 seeds. Head over to http://www.surveymonkey.com/r/16in16 by March 15th and vote.

The final tournament seedings, pairings, and schedules for all 16 teams will be announced live on https://www.Twitch.tv/ootpdevelopments on Wednesday, March 16th at 9 PM ET.

The “16 in ‘16” tournament will feature 7-game series for every tournament matchup. The competition will run from March 24th through April 14th, with select matchups broadcast live on Out of the Park’s Twitch channel, including the final series in its entirety.

Read the full blog post on 16 in '16 head to OOTP Presents 16 in ?16: Baseball?s Tournament of Champions
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Old 03-11-2016, 04:58 AM   #2
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I love the idea.
I sent in my votes.
My choices were:
1955 BKN Dodgers
1967 STL Cardinals
1912 BOS Red Sox
1905 NY Giants
The only issue i had with some of the teams that they picked for the top 12, was that some of them didnt win the World Series.
2001 SEA Mariners.
I know they won the most games, but they didnt the whole thing.
1902 PIT Pirates
No World Series that year.
1906 CHI Cubs
Didn't win the title.
IMO, if you weren't a champion, you cant be part of a tournament of champions.
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Old 03-11-2016, 06:11 AM   #3
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This was tough, but fun.

My picks:

At first I thought I'd try to pick teams I thought most deserved it, but then I balanced that with teams and players I wanted to see in the tournament.

1954 Indians - this one was an easy pick. maybe the best team not to win a WS plus maybe the best pitching team ever. Doby, Wynn, Lemon, Feller, Newhouser, and Garcia. I think they're the team I'll be rooting to win it all.

1942 Cardinals - another easy pick. maybe the best team not already in the tournament. Slaughter, Musial, Cooper, and Beazley.

1953 Dodgers - this one was a bit tougher. it was either them or the 55 Dodgers that were going to make it and while the 55 Dodgers won the WS, the 53 Dodgers are often considered the better team. Snider, Campanella, Hodges, Robinson, Reese.

1932 Yankees - this was the hardest. I didn't really want to pick a team so similar to another in the tourney, but when you're talking Ruth and Gehrig it's hard to say no to them. In the end it was down to them and Mathewson's 1905 Giants and I just wasn't confident that the 1905 Giants would have a chance with how the top seeds would get an advantage when it came to era normalizing. The Giants would also be in trouble if the game didn't have Mathewson pitch 3 in 7 games.

Teams I would have liked to have seen on the ballot:

1970s Oakland As
1990s Blue Jays
1960s Dodgers
1990s Braves
1950s Giants
1969 Mets
1957 Braves
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Old 03-11-2016, 08:22 AM   #4
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Odd NO 1984 Wire to wire Detroit Tigers. (Bless you boys) There were some pretty good teams in that list
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Old 03-11-2016, 09:54 AM   #5
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They were #9
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Old 03-11-2016, 11:00 AM   #6
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I still don't know how the 95 Indians made it into the Fan Vote when they lost to the Braves in the World Series. A Braves team which would go back to the World Series in 1996... only to lose to the Yankees.

Seems like those 90's Braves team get the nod for the "Hall of Very Good", but couldn't sneak into this tournament.
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Old 03-11-2016, 11:15 AM   #7
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Without listening to the 43 minute audio, is there a list of the current teams somewhere?
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Old 03-11-2016, 11:15 AM   #8
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Love this tourney .. a couple nitpicks, suggestions:
__should maybe do a release with the 12 slots filled listed -- its hard to find a list of the 12 chosen anywhere other than the video
__ agree with the one post the title using "champions" does suggest leaving out the likes of the '01 Mariners, etc. I justified my picks with the criteria that if the team represented a set of teams in successive teams that did win something -- a league title of WS -- that made that representation a champion (example '06 Cubs not WS champs but they won it the following year)
__ might've been good for the panel to agree on a team vs a team in a specific year so that the 06-07 Cubs become one entry. Ditto 75-76 Reds. I feellike they took up spots .. perhaps costing the likes of TJ's beloved 90s Bravos.

All in all great job by the panel; fun idea to follow when the game releases later this month.
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Old 03-11-2016, 11:30 AM   #9
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My votes and thumbnail research notes ...

'32 NYY -- had a run differential of about 300R .. swept a WS title .. had a .695 W% in an AL that had two other very strong .600+ teams.. was the height of a run that saw NYY basically play .600 ball for about an 8-year stretch (best team of the post-27-but-before-late-30s Yankees).

'54 CLE -- similar to '95 CLE but +250 in run diff in a lower run-scoring era .. beat out a strong 103W NYY team .. height of early 50s run that had Indians notch seven top-3 AL finishes in eight-year stretch .. culturally kind of an important team in the immediate postwar period.

'05 NYG -- +250 RD in deadball era is most impressive .. took NL flag over very good CHC and PIT teams in 1905 .. NY was class of NL in important Mathewson-McGraw years .. oversight by the commite IMO.

'09 PIT -- similar to '05 Giants .. big run diff in low-scores era .. .694 W% tail end of great PIT era started by the 1902 team.

Thanks, OOTP, for the half-hour of mid-March-rabbit-hole baseball research!
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Old 03-11-2016, 11:34 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimguy View Post
Without listening to the 43 minute audio, is there a list of the current teams somewhere?
Yeah, this was frustrating when trying to vote bc I didn't want to have things like b2b 75-76 Reds, etc. Here's a quick rundown:

1. 1927 NYY
2. 1998 NYY
3. 1939 NYY
4. 1975 CIN
5. 1929 PHA
6. 1961 NYY
7. 1986 NYM
8. 1970 BAL
9. 1984 DET
10. 1906 CHC
11. 2001 SEA
12. 1902 PIT
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Old 03-11-2016, 11:36 AM   #11
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12. 1902 Pittsburgh Pirates
11. 2001 Seattle Mariners
10. 1906 Chicago Cubs
09. 1984 Detroit Tigers
08. 1970 Baltimore Orioles
07. 1986 New York Mets
06. 1961 New York Yankees
05. 1929 Philadelphia Athletics
04. 1975 Cincinnati Reds
03. 1939 New York Yankees
02. 1998 New York Yankees
01. 1927 New York Yankees
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Old 03-11-2016, 06:57 PM   #12
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My four: 1905 Giants, 1909 Pirates, 1942 Cardinals, 1954 Indians.
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Old 03-12-2016, 12:01 AM   #13
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My picks are the 1954 Indians, 1909 Pirates, 1912 Red Sox, 1905 Giants. I am interested in how the dead ball era clubs will stack up in this tournament. To win I'll put my money behind the 27' Yankees. If they hit nobody can stop them.

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Old 03-12-2016, 04:28 AM   #14
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I love OOTP, ok?

I spent 4 years (2006-2010) playing a MASSIVE 80-team tournament with many of these "Greatest Ever" teams in Strat O Matic, solitaire, with cards and dice. I came away from that long experiment with two educated hypothesis:

1. Deadball teams can't beat post-1921 teams in a 5- or 7-game series. Many of them do pitch well and have speed, but it's so hard to beat the 3-run homer.

2. The 1984 Tigers and the 1986 Mets do not perform well against non-1980s teams. I can't put my finger on a reason why, because I always expect them to do better, but they don't. Though they dominated their particular seasons, their lineups aren't intimidating when stacked up against great teams from other eras.

BTW, the Final Eight teams in my long tournament were: The 1921 Yankees, the 1927 Yankees, the 1941 Dodgers, the 1948 Indians, the 1976 Reds, the 1993 Blue Jays, the 1998 Yankees and the 1965 Dodgers.

In the finals, the 1927 Yankees defeated the 1941 Dodgers in six games.

I did not have the 1939 Yankees, though, so I don't know how they might have done.

Anyway, FWIW ...
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Old 03-12-2016, 04:50 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webrian View Post
I love OOTP, ok?

I spent 4 years (2006-2010) playing a MASSIVE 80-team tournament with many of these "Greatest Ever" teams in Strat O Matic, solitaire, with cards and dice. I came away from that long experiment with two educated hypothesis:

1. Deadball teams can't beat post-1921 teams in a 5- or 7-game series. Many of them do pitch well and have speed, but it's so hard to beat the 3-run homer.

2. The 1984 Tigers and the 1986 Mets do not perform well against non-1980s teams. I can't put my finger on a reason why, because I always expect them to do better, but they don't. Though they dominated their particular seasons, their lineups aren't intimidating when stacked up against great teams from other eras.

BTW, the Final Eight teams in my long tournament were: The 1921 Yankees, the 1927 Yankees, the 1941 Dodgers, the 1948 Indians, the 1976 Reds, the 1993 Blue Jays, the 1998 Yankees and the 1965 Dodgers.

In the finals, the 1927 Yankees defeated the 1941 Dodgers in six games.

I did not have the 1939 Yankees, though, so I don't know how they might have done.

Anyway, FWIW ...
1) Maybe that's a stratomatic and not an OOTP thing, but I suspect we will see similar results. If we do see the deadball teams get destroyed then maybe someone will come up with a way that balances the eras instead of just giving a full on advantage to the top seed for next time. It's too bad because I really would like to see those 1905 Giants get a shot at all those later teams on a level playing field.

2) That's interesting you say that about the 80s teams because, when watching the youtube video of the top 12, those were the only two teams that I said to myself, "really?". I figured I just must be discounting 80s teams for some reason because when I looked back at those teams they did look pretty good, but maybe you're on to something. I look forward to seeing how they do as well.
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Old 03-12-2016, 02:15 PM   #16
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What if the tourney were played with Neutralized Stats? Would that help the 1905 Giants, 1909 Pirates, 1912 Red Sox etc etc get to a more level playing field?
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Old 03-12-2016, 02:41 PM   #17
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They all fall to an '82 Brewers team with a healthy Rollie Fingers
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Old 03-12-2016, 02:41 PM   #18
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I love that 01 Mariners team, was at a ton of games but that said they didn't do what they needed at trade deadline and lost in ALCS to a better playoff team. So I wouldn't have included them as hard as that is to say for me.

I would vote for one of the 70's A's teams but this does look very interesting and I will be following
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Old 03-12-2016, 02:48 PM   #19
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Deadball teams can't beat post-1921 teams in a 5- or 7-game series. Many of them do pitch well and have speed, but it's so hard to beat the 3-run homer.
Whenever I do one of these tournaments, I use teams after 1920 only. Baseball was just too different in the deadball era. (And don't even talk to me about the 19th century...)
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Old 03-13-2016, 12:35 AM   #20
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All fair comments. I also feel like the 80 Phillies should have been in the mix. But I'm biased lol.
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