Card Hoarding - Page 2

mcdog512 · 10-29-2019, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bailey

That silver card is either part of a live mission or a team mission, so you can't determine its value based on a "pack" mission.
The pack missions are bonuses to the team missions.

I thought about that to. Looking through them all sounds worse than drinking hemlock. Hopefully next year they can list on the card the missions they are part of in some kind of tab.

emilempenza · 10-29-2019, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcdog512

I thought about that to. Looking through them all sounds worse than drinking hemlock. Hopefully next year they can list on the card the missions they are part of in some kind of tab.

Probably easiest to just look at what team he plays for and in what era, then it should be easy enough to find (unless he's part of an obscure mission that's not team related)

dkgo · 10-29-2019, 12:04 PM

Every card is part or will be part of a mission except for a handful of the new weekly releases, so if its expensive thats because its part of a good collection.

That also contributes to the problem. There is zero risk in stocking up on a bunch of historicals since you know they will eventually have a demand created for them. Any random NYY diamond is going to sell for 25K the day that collection gets released and then some will end up 60K+ depending on how it's organized.

Kris Jardine · 11-01-2019, 06:42 AM

The other thing to consider is that PT 20 will be a one off in the sense that now that missions are added and tournaments are coming soon, the way we roll out content, mission rewards and tournament rewards will be completely different in PT 21. So the AH strategy that people are using now, might not necessarily work in 5 months

dkgo · 11-01-2019, 07:04 AM

Let's hope not because as they are some missions are literally impossible for even an active every day player to complete, let alone a more casual one.

What are people supposed to do when cards simply never show up?

There's not even a reason to buy points because you can't use them.

Ile · 11-01-2019, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkgo

Let's hope not because as they are some missions are literally impossible for even an active every day player to complete, let alone a more casual one.

What are people supposed to do when cards simply never show up?

There's not even a reason to buy points because you can't use them.

Buy packs? If everyone stopped relying on everyone else to buy packs for them, the supply would go up.

Ty Cobb · 11-01-2019, 07:25 AM

I've maintained for quite a while that the way to combat whaling and hoarding and rice manipulation is to buy packs. It seems that many of us, sometimes myself included, get caught up in the rush to finish that mission and get frustrated when it's hard to. Be patient. If it was easy, it wouldn't be fun. Buy packs. Break the market open.

dkgo · 11-01-2019, 07:37 AM

Packs are a way for me to turn 1000 PP into 50 PP. I have never opened anything worth a **** in standard packs. I won't claim they are rigged, but we all know there are still tons of bugs such as the historic auction prices so I don't trust them.

stl jason · 11-01-2019, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ty Cobb

I've maintained for quite a while that the way to combat whaling and hoarding and rice manipulation is to buy packs. It seems that many of us, sometimes myself included, get caught up in the rush to finish that mission and get frustrated when it's hard to. Be patient. If it was easy, it wouldn't be fun. Buy packs. Break the market open.

patience is definitely the key here, especially when you get down to the last couple players needed to finish out a mission/collection.... been sitting on points trying to finish a handful of different missions here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkgo

Packs are a way for me to turn 1000 PP into 50 PP. I have never opened anything worth a **** in standard packs. I won't claim they are rigged, but we all know there are still tons of bugs such as the historic auction prices so I don't trust them.

heh... I get that same type of luck with my main team... get the random Live gold card now and then, but haven't pulled anything better than that (outside of a Diamond pack).... now, on one of my other teams (strictly packs, so all points just go towards standard packs), I've actually pulled three perfect cards and a good number of diamonds (some historical), so it's all just dumb luck

dkgo · 11-01-2019, 07:55 AM

Also, the odds of getting a specific historic diamond in a standard pack assuming each drops at the same rate is .000014

1/30 chance in a pack according to the posted odds of getting any diamond
30% chance that diamond is historical
1/700 of getting the right one (there are about that many historical diamonds which is way too many IMO)

So yeah that is not a viable answer to finding a bill freehan

Some teams have dumb luck. I don't.

Then you have to factor in that opening packs and selling the contents is an extremely tedious and time-consuming process. The two day max auction time is bad since it literally just reduces activity on the auction house and increases manual work. Same with the fact there is no way to easily "relist" a card; you have to scour through your inactive list to repeat the whole process each time something doesn't sell while checking prices again and trying to remember if it's a card where they are accurate or not.

Ile · 11-01-2019, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkgo

Packs are a way for me to turn 1000 PP into 50 PP. I have never opened anything worth a **** in standard packs. I won't claim they are rigged, but we all know there are still tons of bugs such as the historic auction prices so I don't trust them.

It's the same for everyone though. And my point is still valid, as long as people refuse to open pack and expect someone else to find them their players AND sell them for cheap, it's not going to happen.

Why should I not hoard cards? Or sell rare bronzes for way too much? I lose a ton of PP opening packs, I want to get paid when I can get paid, to open more packs. I don't open packs to help the guys in the Official Laughing at Auction thread to complete their missions.

And regarding your follow up post, I'm not saying you specifically would get your Freehan card, I'm saying that if more people buy packs it helps increasing supply for everyone to get their key pieces.

Maybe it's the "PP Hoarders" that are the problem, not the ones who buy packs?

dkgo · 11-01-2019, 08:59 AM

I mean, I agree it is better for the economy if people open packs. That isn't controversial.

The problem is that packs have a massively negative expected value even with a couple very inflated cards thrown in there.

You admit you are losing a ton of PP from opening packs, everyone does on average. So I can either have points and wait for a card to show up, or rip open packs and by the end have no points nor the card anyway.

FIFA solves this by injecting tons of packs into their economy to keep it moving. PT some people get two standard packs a week if they spend 15 minutes cheesing challenge mode.

Ile · 11-01-2019, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkgo

I mean, I agree it is better for the economy if people open packs. That isn't controversial.

The problem is that packs have a massively negative expected value even with a couple very inflated cards thrown in there.

You admit you are losing a ton of PP from opening packs, everyone does on average. So I can either have points and wait for a card to show up, or rip open packs and by the end have no points nor the card anyway.

FIFA solves this by injecting tons of packs into their economy to keep it moving. PT some people get two standard packs a week if they spend 15 minutes cheesing challenge mode.

They also force anyone who spends real money to spend them on packs.

dkgo · 11-01-2019, 09:55 AM

Yep. I was actually surprised PT didn't work that way.

I certainly understand the developers are working with a very delicate balance between card generation, card removal, point generation, and point removal within the economy. Any factor skewed too far would send the market into turmoil and for starting from scratch with major features introduced as we go it isn't bad (and they've shown willingness to adjust some things such as 15K diamond packs), but I can't imagine that the complete disappearance of required cards to participate in a key part of the game was intended.

Dogberry99 · 11-01-2019, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkgo

...but I can't imagine that the complete disappearance of required cards to participate in a key part of the game was intended.

Its not merely the fact that certain cards have disappeared due to missions locking them, its also that some mission rewards are popular enough that every future card will also be locked. In this regard, its almost as though the functional market quantity for these cards is not merely zero but well below zero. While the scarcity has increased the worth of these cards, their utility has completely bottomed out. It used to be possible for players to logically target a card like the 90 OVR Appling to use in their infields, but doing so now is a completely irrational and illogical proposition unless they are also attempting to complete the related White Sox missions.

Westheim · 11-01-2019, 11:08 AM

Packs from tournaments are hopefully so numerous that they can count as remedy.

Lemandria · 11-05-2019, 09:56 AM

Remember that PP is an infinite input inflationary spiral, whose only limiting factor is Time.

Artificial rarity is the standard answer to that dilema.

Think the devs *need* some hoarders to slow down price inflation vs Time.

And I think the once-annually card collection forced reset is their ultimate hand brake that keeps everything from exploding.

dkgo · 11-05-2019, 10:00 AM

In theory that is what the auction house tax does.

It is definitely a tough balancing act.

bailey · 11-05-2019, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westheim

Packs from tournaments are hopefully so numerous that they can count as remedy.

If they give away too many packs, there is no incentive to spend real money. The shortest tournament is an 8 player one and done, so win 3 games in a row, you win a tournament. With games occurring every 10 minutes, you can theoretically win 6 packs an hour (with a strong team times 3 separate entries, twice per hour).

Will_L · 11-05-2019, 04:46 PM

Corsairs are keeping even with bailing the water out of the ship at 20-19.
Reavers are 19-20... as usual.
Subway Rats 21-18 still scampering on track.
Marble Cutters at 16-23 apparently need to sharpen their chisels.
Rifles at 21-19 are keeping a few of the other teams ducking and covering.
Elitist Scum are lording it over their division at 26-12.

10-29-2019, 12:04 PM	#23
dkgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,152	Every card is part or will be part of a mission except for a handful of the new weekly releases, so if its expensive thats because its part of a good collection. That also contributes to the problem. There is zero risk in stocking up on a bunch of historicals since you know they will eventually have a demand created for them. Any random NYY diamond is going to sell for 25K the day that collection gets released and then some will end up 60K+ depending on how it's organized. Last edited by dkgo; 10-29-2019 at 12:10 PM.

11-01-2019, 06:42 AM	#24
Kris Jardine OOTP Developments Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Miramichi, NB, Canada Posts: 1,021	The other thing to consider is that PT 20 will be a one off in the sense that now that missions are added and tournaments are coming soon, the way we roll out content, mission rewards and tournament rewards will be completely different in PT 21. So the AH strategy that people are using now, might not necessarily work in 5 months __________________ Out of the Park Baseball 22 is available NOW! Webstore - https://ootpdevelopments.onfastspring.com/games/ Steam - https://store.steampowered.com/app/1...k_Baseball_22/

11-01-2019, 07:04 AM	#25
dkgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,152	Let's hope not because as they are some missions are literally impossible for even an active every day player to complete, let alone a more casual one. What are people supposed to do when cards simply never show up? There's not even a reason to buy points because you can't use them. Last edited by dkgo; 11-01-2019 at 07:06 AM.

11-01-2019, 07:25 AM	#27
Ty Cobb Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Grayling, MI Posts: 3,937 Blog Entries: 65	I've maintained for quite a while that the way to combat whaling and hoarding and rice manipulation is to buy packs. It seems that many of us, sometimes myself included, get caught up in the rush to finish that mission and get frustrated when it's hard to. Be patient. If it was easy, it wouldn't be fun. Buy packs. Break the market open. __________________ “What’s the most you ever lost on a coin toss?” “Everyone is an atheist until Templars begin marching in the rain.” Absinthe makes the heart grow fonder. Society's tolerance for violent criminals is dumbfounding. "Alinsky works for me now."

11-01-2019, 07:55 AM	#30
dkgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,152	Also, the odds of getting a specific historic diamond in a standard pack assuming each drops at the same rate is .000014 1/30 chance in a pack according to the posted odds of getting any diamond 30% chance that diamond is historical 1/700 of getting the right one (there are about that many historical diamonds which is way too many IMO) So yeah that is not a viable answer to finding a bill freehan Some teams have dumb luck. I don't. Then you have to factor in that opening packs and selling the contents is an extremely tedious and time-consuming process. The two day max auction time is bad since it literally just reduces activity on the auction house and increases manual work. Same with the fact there is no way to easily "relist" a card; you have to scour through your inactive list to repeat the whole process each time something doesn't sell while checking prices again and trying to remember if it's a card where they are accurate or not. Last edited by dkgo; 11-01-2019 at 08:02 AM.

11-01-2019, 07:37 AM	#28
dkgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,152	Packs are a way for me to turn 1000 PP into 50 PP. I have never opened anything worth a **** in standard packs. I won't claim they are rigged, but we all know there are still tons of bugs such as the historic auction prices so I don't trust them.

11-01-2019, 08:59 AM	#32
dkgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,152	I mean, I agree it is better for the economy if people open packs. That isn't controversial. The problem is that packs have a massively negative expected value even with a couple very inflated cards thrown in there. You admit you are losing a ton of PP from opening packs, everyone does on average. So I can either have points and wait for a card to show up, or rip open packs and by the end have no points nor the card anyway. FIFA solves this by injecting tons of packs into their economy to keep it moving. PT some people get two standard packs a week if they spend 15 minutes cheesing challenge mode.

11-01-2019, 09:55 AM	#34
dkgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,152	Yep. I was actually surprised PT didn't work that way. I certainly understand the developers are working with a very delicate balance between card generation, card removal, point generation, and point removal within the economy. Any factor skewed too far would send the market into turmoil and for starting from scratch with major features introduced as we go it isn't bad (and they've shown willingness to adjust some things such as 15K diamond packs), but I can't imagine that the complete disappearance of required cards to participate in a key part of the game was intended. Last edited by dkgo; 11-01-2019 at 09:56 AM.

11-01-2019, 11:08 AM	#36
Westheim Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Germany Posts: 11,887	Packs from tournaments are hopefully so numerous that they can count as remedy. __________________ Portland Raccoons, 83 years of excell-.... of baseball: Furballs here! 1983 * 1989 * 1991 * 1992 * 1993 * 1995 * 1996 * 2010 * 2017 * 2018 * 2019 * 2026 * 2028 * 2035 * 2037 * 2044 * 2045 * 2046 * 2047 * 2048 * 2051 * 2054 * 2055 1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA \| RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO Resident Mets Cynic - The Mets from 1962 onwards, here.

11-05-2019, 09:56 AM	#37
Lemandria All Star Reserve Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 702	Remember that PP is an infinite input inflationary spiral, whose only limiting factor is Time. Artificial rarity is the standard answer to that dilema. Think the devs need some hoarders to slow down price inflation vs Time. And I think the once-annually card collection forced reset is their ultimate hand brake that keeps everything from exploding. __________________ FOTF victim Farewell Last edited by Lemandria; 11-05-2019 at 10:04 AM.

11-05-2019, 10:00 AM	#38
dkgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 2,152	In theory that is what the auction house tax does. It is definitely a tough balancing act.

11-05-2019, 04:46 PM	#40
Will_L All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Laurelton, NY Posts: 590	Corsairs are keeping even with bailing the water out of the ship at 20-19. Reavers are 19-20... as usual. Subway Rats 21-18 still scampering on track. Marble Cutters at 16-23 apparently need to sharpen their chisels. Rifles at 21-19 are keeping a few of the other teams ducking and covering. Elitist Scum are lording it over their division at 26-12. __________________