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Old 07-21-2014, 11:22 PM   #1
kingtut313
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"injuries"

do any of you guys ever tell a player hes going on the disabled list because hes "injured"?

i have a starting pitcher who is a good veteran with a nice contract but no options and having the worst season of his career. i am tempted to just tell him hes going on the dl for some trumped up injury. i know teams sometimes do this in real life and just wonder what the consensus is around here
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Old 07-21-2014, 11:41 PM   #2
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do any of you guys ever tell a player hes going on the disabled list because hes "injured"?

i have a starting pitcher who is a good veteran with a nice contract but no options and having the worst season of his career. i am tempted to just tell him hes going on the dl for some trumped up injury. i know teams sometimes do this in real life and just wonder what the consensus is around here
Actually they don't. A doctor must sign off on injuries so they could lose their license if it is shown not to be medically necessary. The PA vets DL assignments for proper medical protocol. Players can put a grievance in if they feel a DL assignment is smelly. Things like vested bonuses and even contract renewals can be affected by DL time so I suggest that teams have very little wiggle room and could face serious sanctions if they don't play it straight up.
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Old 07-21-2014, 11:50 PM   #3
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Actually they don't. A doctor must sign off on injuries so they could lose their license if it is shown not to be medically necessary. The PA vets DL assignments for proper medical protocol. Players can put a grievance in if they feel a DL assignment is smelly. Things like vested bonuses and even contract renewals can be affected by DL time so I suggest that teams have very little wiggle room and could face serious sanctions if they don't play it straight up.
i have read former players saying they were told they had a 'dead arm' and are going to the DL
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Old 07-22-2014, 12:02 AM   #4
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do any of you guys ever tell a player hes going on the disabled list because hes "injured"?
"no"
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Old 07-22-2014, 09:58 AM   #5
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In OOTP, you can't put a player on the DL unless he has an injury, so you'd have to go into the editor and give a guy an injury to do what you're talking about.

In real life, RichW is correct. A doctor must sign off on injuries. However, there have been rare instances where MLB looks into a DL move. The last one I can remember was when the Mets put Oliver Perez on the DL a few years back with a knee issue after he refused a minor league assignment. Here's a news story about that situation.
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Old 07-22-2014, 02:10 PM   #6
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In OOTP, you can't put a player on the DL unless he has an injury, so you'd have to go into the editor and give a guy an injury to do what you're talking about.
And I've done that once or twice. A good pitcher's been struggling for a month, so I give him a couple weeks off on the 15-day DL.

And I do personally believe it happens in real life, but as an agreement between the player and the team. There'd only be a problem if the player filed a grievance, so if they both agree that he needs some time off to rest and recuperate, there shouldn't be an issue. Not saying it's a common occurrence by any stretch, but I'd be shocked if it never happened.
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Old 07-22-2014, 04:33 PM   #7
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i have read former players saying they were told they had a 'dead arm' and are going to the DL
There actually is a medical condition like this that I first read about with JR Richard and most recently saw as concern with Phil Hughes. An artery gets constricted or blocked in feeding the arm, and the arm "feels" dead, although there is no pain and there isn't a necessary physical injury that causes it. Technically in Richard's case a blockage had occurred in the distal subclavian and axillary arteries of his right arm. Jim Abbott, who lost a ton of speed overnight may have had the same issue.

The Astros insisted that Richard's was being "lazy" and a "malinger" so he was allowed to pitch and within a week he had ruined his magnificent arm permanently. A possible Hall of Famer ruined overnight through ignorant attitudes. Doctors examined Richard and soon identified the condition, since the team had refused to accept that JR was accurately describing a problem.

For Hughes, the Yankees sent Hughes for testing after he had lost speed off his FB and said his arm felt dead.

The key is whether the doctors tell the player that the symptoms he has appear to be a "dead" arm and worthy of DL time to have advanced testing identify the facts or whether they tell the player to lie about what his arm. IMO, a player who doctors think shouldn't play because the doctors think he may have a medical condition that could cause stroke or serious injury should go on the DL until the matter is cleared up. The doctor should not clear the player to play.

Last edited by Drstrangelove; 07-22-2014 at 04:47 PM.
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Old 07-22-2014, 05:47 PM   #8
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And I've done that once or twice. A good pitcher's been struggling for a month, so I give him a couple weeks off on the 15-day DL.

And I do personally believe it happens in real life, but as an agreement between the player and the team. There'd only be a problem if the player filed a grievance, so if they both agree that he needs some time off to rest and recuperate, there shouldn't be an issue. Not saying it's a common occurrence by any stretch, but I'd be shocked if it never happened.
It certainly has happened in the past. In today's game it is almost impossible. There can't be an agreement between a player and a team to go on the DL. A team doctor or third party medical professional ie James Andrews as an example must sign off with a diagnosis. I'd take a large bet that doctors wont participate in a wink or nudge agreement that could get them in legal trouble. Obviously If a player says he can't play it becomes fairly easy for a doctor and the team to diagnose the injury, consider treatment first and/or the DL if the injury does not respond in a few days. I'm having a hard time thinking of any scenario where a player who is able to play would want to go on the DL to rest. I'm quite sure in the macho world of professional sports that that would be a one-way ticket out of town.

Dirk Hayhurst an ex player with a few cups of coffee in MLB said that when he was in the Tampa Bay Rays organization it was well known among the marginal relief pitchers that if you got an injury requiring DL time that you would be likely be released. This caused many players to hide injuries and often ruin their arms. Anecdotal but on point IMO.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:58 PM   #9
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I've done it a couple times with a struggling player who gets his with a couple day injury. I'll put them on the 15-day DL while I figure out what I want to do with them. I've been tempted a couple times to throw someone on the 60-day DL, but never pulled the trigger just cause it felt too much like cheating.
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:09 PM   #10
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do any of you guys ever tell a player hes going on the disabled list because hes "injured"?

No. I think it's a lot more fun to work through the problem than work around the problem.
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Old 07-23-2014, 10:02 AM   #11
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It certainly has happened in the past. In today's game it is almost impossible. There can't be an agreement between a player and a team to go on the DL. A team doctor or third party medical professional ie James Andrews as an example must sign off with a diagnosis. I'd take a large bet that doctors wont participate in a wink or nudge agreement that could get them in legal trouble. Obviously If a player says he can't play it becomes fairly easy for a doctor and the team to diagnose the injury, consider treatment first and/or the DL if the injury does not respond in a few days. I'm having a hard time thinking of any scenario where a player who is able to play would want to go on the DL to rest. I'm quite sure in the macho world of professional sports that that would be a one-way ticket out of town.

Dirk Hayhurst an ex player with a few cups of coffee in MLB said that when he was in the Tampa Bay Rays organization it was well known among the marginal relief pitchers that if you got an injury requiring DL time that you would be likely be released. This caused many players to hide injuries and often ruin their arms. Anecdotal but on point IMO.
I have to disagree, although I have no facts to support my opinion.

If a team tells a player that it doesn't want him on the active roster and the player has two choices -- go on the DL or be demoted -- then that player is likely to tell a doctor he can't play in order to go on the DL. If a player tells a doctor he has pain/soreness/etc., what's that doctor going to do? Argue? No, like you said, if a player says he's hurt, something will be diagnosed, even if the doctor can't find any symptoms beyond what the player says he is feeling.

This is exactly what happened with Oliver Perez in the link I posted earlier in this thread. He was downright awful, the Mets didn't want to release him because they were paying him big money, but he had an option and they wanted to demote him. But because of his service time, he had the right to refuse that demotion, which he did. So they wound up placing him on the DL with a knee issue, which just happened to be the same issue he had experienced earlier in his career. Many thought it was a little too convenient that a guy who was completely healthy and refused a demotion was suddenly injured. It was so suspicious to the point that MLB investigated the DL move, although it was eventually upheld.

(As an aside, I do know for a fact that things like this happen in the minors on a pretty regular basis.)

I'm not saying things like this happen in MLB on a daily basis, or even a semi-regular basis. But I think we're naive if we say that players never go on the DL when they aren't actually injured.
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Old 07-27-2014, 06:37 AM   #12
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I have to disagree, although I have no facts to support my opinion.

If a team tells a player that it doesn't want him on the active roster and the player has two choices -- go on the DL or be demoted -- then that player is likely to tell a doctor he can't play in order to go on the DL.
Although the link you posted said that he could refuse the assignment. So, he had 3 options....lie and go on the DL which he does not have to do....accept the demotion which he does not have to do....or stay on the 25 which he wants to do. I don't see why he would go on the DL unless he was hurt. The team could release him, but they'd owe him compensation. Moreover, it hurts Perez for signing with other teams since a) he's a liar or b) his knee injury is recurring. I'm missing the rationale for a player doing that who can reject demotion?

This is one of the whole points of having a union. Players don't have to be forced to do things that violate the CBA....it costs the team and / or league big bucks for trying that.

Last edited by Drstrangelove; 07-27-2014 at 06:42 AM.
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