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OOTP 19 - General Discussions Everything about the 2018 version of Out of the Park Baseball - officially licensed by MLB.com and the MLBPA.

View Poll Results: How many playoff teams?
12, 6 per league 7 17.95%
16, 8 per league, 4 wild cards 19 48.72%
16, 8 per league, top two in each division 8 20.51%
10, 5 per league 4 10.26%
14, 7 per league 1 2.56%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-12-2018, 03:59 PM   #101
Drstrangelove
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Originally Posted by Brad K View Post
Where's the cutoff for unacceptable? 510? 520?
Well, it's perception and baseball fans have always been big consumers of perception. We count players' .300 BA and 20 W seasons, not .299 and 19. We declare 3,000 hits and 500 homers as sacrosanct. These are numerical red-lines, thresholds and hurdles. A sub-.500 team is self defined as below average. It's math. Undebatable. MLB has plenty of drama. Seeing a 62-100 team have a shot at winning the WS (much less winning it) isn't needed, imo.

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Old 12-12-2018, 09:57 PM   #102
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Perception? Well, my perception is that is a team that's beaten is out of the playoffs. And if they finished second or lower in a division, they're already beaten.
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Old 12-12-2018, 10:05 PM   #103
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Perception? Well, my perception is that is a team that's beaten is out of the playoffs.
That's not true in the Mexican Pacific League and Venezuelan Winter League. Both have six teams in the first round of their playoffs. The three winners advance to the second round.

For the second round, in the MPL, the 'best loser' gets another chance and advances to the second round. The team that is the 'best loser' is the one which won the most games in its first round series.

For the second round in the VWL, the two 'best losers' (I'm not sure what criteria is used to judge this) from the first round play a single elimination game against each other, with the winner advancing to the second round.
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Old 12-12-2018, 10:26 PM   #104
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The fact somebody lets beaten teams into their playoffs doesn't mean they're not beaten.

The discussion is perception and my perception is losers don't belong.
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Old 12-13-2018, 12:39 AM   #105
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The discussion is perception and my perception is losers don't belong.
Just having a little fun with a pair of real-world examples running contrary to your insistence. Don't take it too seriously.
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Old 12-13-2018, 08:30 PM   #106
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My preference would be no interleague play, and the top 4 teams (by record) would play in each league. Division winning would not be a factor: only W-L record. If there was IL play, it would not decide the playoffs. Current structures, (the poll having even worse options), allows the feasibility of sub- 500 teams winning the title, which degrades the point of both the season and the playoffs.

whats the point of having a season if Wild card is in play and even more so with that many wild card teams … welcome to basketball and hockey.... why stop at 4 teams why not go 8 or 16 or 32 teams in playoffs …. this is exactly why I prefer winner of division goes on
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Old 12-13-2018, 08:48 PM   #107
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personally I would go with ONLY division winners. 4 teams in each league that's it. as I do not like the wildcard nonsense for baseball as it was only done for increasing of revenue.

Me too. They talked about having wild cards in 1970 so I'm glad they didn't implement it for another quarter century. But if you must have a wild card I liked the old 3 division and one wild card setup better than the current setup.
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Old 12-13-2018, 09:08 PM   #108
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Just having a little fun with a pair of real-world examples running contrary to your insistence. Don't take it too seriously.
Just having a little fun calling wild card teams losers. Come up with some more examples so I can do it again!

BTW, without that horrid DH rule we wouldn't have the current Harold Baines HOF controversy.
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Old 12-13-2018, 09:20 PM   #109
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Well, it's perception and baseball fans have always been big consumers of perception. We count players' .300 BA and 20 W seasons, not .299 and 19. We declare 3,000 hits and 500 homers as sacrosanct. These are numerical red-lines, thresholds and hurdles. A sub-.500 team is self defined as below average. It's math. Undebatable. MLB has plenty of drama. Seeing a 62-100 team have a shot at winning the WS (much less winning it) isn't needed, imo.
Cool. Let's put in a numerical red line. 100 wins to make the playoffs.
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Old 12-13-2018, 11:58 PM   #110
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why stop at 4 teams why not go 8 or 16 or 32 teams in playoffs ….
Because MLB is not the NBA or NHL. (Practical constraints also come into play.)


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Just having a little fun calling wild card teams losers. Come up with some more examples so I can do it again!
Did you like the how in 2018 one minor league team finished with the worst overall record in its league but nonetheless won the league championship? And another finished with the second-worst overall record and won the league title?
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Old 12-13-2018, 11:58 PM   #111
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Cool. Let's put in a numerical red line. 100 wins to make the playoffs.
Before or after correcting for the influence of luck?
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Old 12-14-2018, 02:07 AM   #112
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Because MLB is not the NBA or NHL. (Practical constraints also come into play.)

Like what? Too long a schedule?

Not a problem. Cut the regular season. If almost everyone makes the playoffs who cares?

If it gets really late in the year, bad weather, move the games south, to Tropicana Field as an example.

Neutral site you say? Depends. When the Yankees or Red Sox are there its like its THEIR home game!!!
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Old 12-14-2018, 02:14 AM   #113
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Before or after correcting for the influence of luck?

We need to adjust for divine intervention too. Its possible the Padres and Angels get some heavenly help.
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Old 12-14-2018, 02:17 AM   #114
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Did you like the how in 2018 one minor league team finished with the worst overall record in its league but nonetheless won the league championship? And another finished with the second-worst overall record and won the league title?
Ah, but the big playoff people say everyone loves an underdog.
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Old 12-14-2018, 04:03 AM   #115
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Not a problem. Cut the regular season.
Won't happen.

Direct post-season revenue is a small part of MLB's total revenue; this is not the case in the NHL.

In the 1991-92 NHL season revenue from the playoffs accounted for 9.6% of total league revenue. In the 1991 MLB season, playoff revenue accounted for 0.9% of total league revenue, and in 1992 it accounted for 0.7% of total revenue. In the 2002-03 NHL season playoff revenue amounted to 7.6% of total league revenue; for the 2001 MLB season playoff revenue comprised 1.3% of total league revenue.

The single biggest source of post-season revenue for MLB are the broadcasting rights, but these are divided equally between the thirty clubs. In 2001 this national revenue was 20% of total MLB revenue, meaning everything else was locally generated revenue; I think these days it's in the 25%-30% range, so still a minority of revenue.

A club's local broadcasting contract is going to pay it regardless of whether or not it's in the playoffs, so there isn't much incentive to expand the playoff field enormously because clubs don't stand to benefit from it. Yes, a club can charge higher ticket and other prices for games in the post-season, but there are relatively few home games (11 at most currently) and the gate revenue from several games of each series has to be given to the players* while still paying for the expenses to host these games.

The post-season can provide a bonus to a club's revenue, true, but it's not huge. In 1998 the Indians had regular season revenue totaling $127.0 million, while its playoff revenue was $5.4 million (a 4.2% bonus). That same year, the Yankees had $168.2 million in regular season revenue and earned another $11.5 million from its post-season run to a World Series victory (6.8% bonus). For a more recent example, in 2008, Tampa earned $154.7 million in the regular season; its run to the World Series netted $11.5 million (7.4% bonus). Anaheim, in 2009, had revenue of $228.7 million from the regular season; its playoff run to the LCS netted $9.4 million (4.1% bonus). Ten years further on and the percentage bonuses for playoff runs had changed little.

For comparison, in the 1991-92 NHL season the average regular season revenue of the 22 clubs was $21.3 million; the average revenue of the 16 playoff teams was $3.1 million, a bonus of 12.7%. Undoubtedly some NHL clubs did much better than this calculated average.

Put this together and it means clubs do not want to give up regular season revenue. The Players Association for decades has advocated returning to a 154-game schedule but the clubs have refused, not wanting to give up the revenue from those eight games.

There's also the danger of oversupplying a product. (There's a reason why all the new stadiums built over the last two decades have had smaller seating capacities than the parks they replaced.) MLB's post-season can garner big national broadcasting rights fees is because it's a relatively scare commodity. Supply too much of it and the price will drop. Add to that the limited broadcasting time slots available and MLB will be competing with itself if it attempted to add another full round of playoffs.

Then there's the practicality in that the post-season is about as long as it can be. It can't go longer, as the weather is already close to untenable as it is, and there's increased competition from NFL games. The regular season can't start any earlier as it is already constrained by spring training and early season weather. Remember the brouhaha about the number of postponed games in the first month of the season? And the regular season isn't going to be shortened for reasons previously given. (Even just getting the Division Series to best-of-seven would be a challenge.)

That's the long answer to your suggestion. The short answer: no, it can't.

*Players get 50% of the gate receipts from the Wild Card Game, less up to $100,000 of travel expenses of the visiting club. They also get 60% of the gate receipts from the first three games of the Division Series and 60% of the gate receipts of the first four games of each LCS and the World Series.
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Old 12-14-2018, 04:07 AM   #116
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Ah, but the big playoff people say everyone loves an underdog.
Wasn't due to big playoffs but rather quirks associated with the split-season format.

Interestingly enough, the playoffs in minor league baseball currently draw worse, on average than regular season games for most leagues. I think they exists largely to give players something to aim for and to create a little buzz for fans, even though it doesn't translate into much additional revenue. (The minor league teams, at least, don't have to pay the players, so it is easier to generate some profit from playoff games even with lower attendance.)
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Old 12-17-2018, 09:42 PM   #117
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Wasn't due to big playoffs but rather quirks associated with the split-season format.

Interestingly enough, the playoffs in minor league baseball currently draw worse, on average than regular season games for most leagues. I think they exists largely to give players something to aim for and to create a little buzz for fans, even though it doesn't translate into much additional revenue. (The minor league teams, at least, don't have to pay the players, so it is easier to generate some profit from playoff games even with lower attendance.)
Yea, gimmicks intended to attract fans but when fans recognize the gimmicks...

Speaking of not paying players, did you see a few months ago the US continued an exemption for minor league baseball players from having to be paid minimum wage?
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Old 12-18-2018, 02:32 PM   #118
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8. Win your division or gtfo
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Old 12-18-2018, 08:08 PM   #119
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8. Win your division or gtfo
Well, yea, but the poll was set up so the right choice wasn't a choice. A situation familiar to voters.
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