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Old 09-03-2013, 07:03 PM   #41
yzerwing
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Originally Posted by Mickeyb37 View Post
They know what needs to be fixed its been reported for months and months through the BETA process. Do people just not understand that. That is why people are disappointed.
Being disappointed is fine, but acting like they aren't listening when they are, isn't. Lots of the problems have been fixed and will continue to get fixed. Do you think a big company would have already fixed a small issue (ie, St. Louis Blues thing) and got it out first day, I doubt it. First day of release with another patch coming in a few days.
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:05 PM   #42
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depends
are you coaching a 5 year old or a professional

a pro can handle critisism and do something with it
because they want to be champions
if you dont point out what's wrong, it wont change
and they wind up in last place
Even for pro's they need to know whats wrong. Now obviously theres a number that have already been reported, but let them work on it or ask for a refund until its fixed is always an option, my point is what does a thread like this do for anyone?


I am not here saying this game is amazing its awesome no issues. It has bugs, lots of them (mostly with AI) but its a step in the right direction.

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Old 09-03-2013, 07:06 PM   #43
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Even for pro's they need to know whats wrong. Now obviously theres a number that have already been reported, but let them work on it or ask for a refund until its fixed is always an option, my point is what does a thread like this do for anyone?
help show there is a major problem
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:08 PM   #44
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Being disappointed is fine, but acting like they aren't listening when they are, isn't. Lots of the problems have been fixed and will continue to get fixed. Do you think a big company would have already fixed a small issue (ie, St. Louis Blues thing) and got it out first day, I doubt it. First day of release with another patch coming in a few days.
In my opinion, that I am entitled to, if major issues are reported and aren't addressed then that feels like people were not being listened to.

The first version of this game was supposed to be released in Sept 2012. I was disappointed then. Now having bought into a BETA process of the same product where issues that are reported are supposed to get fixed I am even more disappointed that they are still present.
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:10 PM   #45
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Positive criticism yes.... Give them something to improve on.

You ever coach a kid in hockey and say hey youre dog **** you better get better! Thats not going to work, go to the bug thread and list what needs to be fixed.
has been done several times and i dont think it needs to be said more then it allready have.i dont know where i ever wrote any swear words at the develepers.as i see you still dont understand the concept of companies release whatever they want to people for full price without telling them what they are actully getting isent a very positive thing for for their brand and will end up getting bashed for it like EA has been through for many years now and has to lay of loads of people for it just as many other companies has as they release games with loads of bugs then take time to get thim fixed
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:10 PM   #46
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besides most of the big issues in this game were pointed out on these boards in January, but nothing was ever addressed
the glaring ommissions of January are the same ones now
Baloney.

A great deal of the big issues that were pointed out have been fixed. Not all, but many. Very many.

To say nothing was ever addressed is disingenuous in the extreme if not an out and out lie. Maybe not everything you expected to be fixed is working perfectly, but the game is massively better than in January and getting better every day.

A lot of you folks need to stop coming up with exaggerations that are patently untrue and start constructively posting with substance about the issues that do still need to be fixed.

Last edited by Lukas Berger; 09-04-2013 at 01:54 AM.
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:22 PM   #47
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'RFA rights don't work at all. Pietrangelo, Rask, Gibson among alot of other players became UFA when their contracts expired after the first season. Neither can you offer your RFAs with only 1 year left of their contract a new one, so they'll just leave as UFA even though they're far from hitting it.'

'Shutouts, goals and assist aren't recorded for goalies. I know goalies don't score often but no goalie had an assist over a 82 games so I'm sure it doesn't work.'

Reported by Skills on 21/04/2013 in the bugs thread - an example of two of the issues still present 5 months later. I'm sure I could dig out a few more. Nothing exaggerated there.
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:25 PM   #48
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RFA's still go UFA as far as I know, as well as waivers are still not in affect.
Yeah, that's disappointing. Oh well, I have no doubt they'll get that working properly shortly.
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:34 PM   #49
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Neither can you offer your RFAs with only 1 year left of their contract a new one, so they'll just leave as UFA even though they're far from hitting it.
What are talking about? I have signed 1 year RFA players on my team. Maybe not all, but far from suggesting that none sign.
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:38 PM   #50
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What are talking about? I have signed 1 year RFA players on my team. Maybe not all, but far from suggesting that none sign.
Those are quotes from a bug report in April, not my words but I can't resign any of my players who will become UFA's or are Restricted Free Agents with a year left of their contracts. For example I have offered Ales Hemsky of the Oilers several contracts without a response in three different games I have started and he has become a free agent each time.
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:38 PM   #51
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has been done several times and i dont think it needs to be said more then it allready have.i dont know where i ever wrote any swear words at the develepers.as i see you still dont understand the concept of companies release whatever they want to people for full price without telling them what they are actully getting isent a very positive thing for for their brand and will end up getting bashed for it like EA has been through for many years now and has to lay of loads of people for it just as many other companies has as they release games with loads of bugs then take time to get thim fixed
Taking it too personal, my issue was with TC and how he posted nothing you have said.
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Old 09-03-2013, 07:51 PM   #52
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Ugh. Not to target anyone in particular:

People who are inflammatory and/or ignorant are not simply "voicing their concerns" or "posting criticism."

There is a very clear line between trolling, namecalling, and general douchebaggery as opposed to concerns, bug reporting, and constructive criticism. I'm absolutely not against criticism -- it's how we grow as people and it's how this game will grow and advance.

Compile a nice list of things that still don't work right. If you crash, send the devs your save with an explanation how you're crashing.

It's unrealistic as hell to think this game was going to be bug-free. It does no one any good to complain about the fact that there are bugs. We either get a release today and continue to patch, or FHM keeps postponing the release indefinitely any time a bug comes up.

Within hours a fix was posted for an issue on the same day as launch. Come on, kids. Tone down the attacks and let's turn up the genuine critique.

"THERES BUGS OMG YOU SUCK" does nothing.

"There is a bug when X happens if you are on screen Y and you try to click Z," however, is absolutely helpful.

There's a difference between attacking a person or company/entity and posting criticism or a critique. The quicker we all learn that difference, the more our concerns will actually be listened to and we can have a constructive impact on the development of this game.
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Old 09-03-2013, 08:01 PM   #53
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What Fireholder said. I talk to Jeff pretty much every day and can tell you that every time I've raised an issue that someone has mentioned on FB or Twitter, he's aware of it. Either that, or it was a problem unique to that person's situation. (For example, we can't test on every PC configuration known to exist - we don't have a big QA testing lab like big companies do.)

I also know there are problems that they've worked on for extended periods of time and have struggled to fix them, or sometimes they fix X, Y, and Z, but A and B break and they didn't realize it when they put the build out.

I can also tell you that if I get on my computer in the evening, or on the weekend (which was increasingly the case the last couple weeks), Jeff is always on IM. One time I asked him a question in the evening and said something like, "Sorry if I'm intruding on your down time." His response: "I have no down time right now."

These guys have worked their butts off the past several months to get this game in shape for release. They're just as frustrated as anyone else when bugs pop up. But, again, we're a very small company, and all it takes is for someone to get really sick and everything gets thrown out of whack. We have very little margin for error.

So, rest assured that bugs will be dealt with, and, yes, it's helpful to explain how the bug occurred. Saying "this is an unplayable mess" is pointless, and all it does is aggravate people who have put an enormous amount of effort into this game.

Thanks.
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Old 09-03-2013, 08:20 PM   #54
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It's playable. You may not like the way it has to be played at first, but it's playable.
So do you consider a CTD on any save game, clean install when clicking the name of a player in the "Draft Preview" news item once the season starts as playable? How the heck am I supposed to determine the value of my draft picks if I can't see the players in the draft?
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Old 09-03-2013, 08:44 PM   #55
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$39.99 is too much?

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at the risk of being attacked ill say im contemplating a refund and ill even explain why

for a management sim the management for games is seriously lacking, lack of tactics is a real killer for me and also the gameday seems very dated considering how other games are, not just football manager which is an unfair comparison but ehm which is about 6 years old and even an nfl game i found from developers smaller than this team

the price, 30$+ was very steep for the finished product. for all those saying yes its a small team, they were not shy about charging established prices. the lack of demo will have pushed a lot of people into taking the plunge and im willing to bet a fair few people have already stopped playing but are too shy to ask for a refund
Goat,
I do respect your position but find myself seriously disagreeing as to your view about "charging established prices" I just came back from a shopping trip with my wife and daughter, while there I just perused Target's electronics section. EA Sports prices for NFL & NCAA football are $53.99 + tax. and to prepurchase Activisions Call of Duty is going for $44.99+ tax soooo where's the beef with $39.99?

I also play a grognard war game from Matrix Games called "War in The Pacific Admiral's Edition" that set me back $79.99... Its the third edition of the same game, and I bought all three versions over the past 6 years because it was constantly being improved by a small legion of programmers and volunteers that kept putting hundreds of hours of thier own time into a labor of love for them. This game is the pinnacle of strategy management using the Pacific War 1941-1945. These games came out with bugs, wads and hundreds of suggestions and modifications all which can be found on Matrix Games website.

The point/moral of the post is where do you stand? is this a "play it for six months" til the next seasonal game comes along? Is this something that will have you thinking about it when your supposed to be sleeping so you can go to work tomorrow? Can you imagine that you put up your money as an investment in gaming so the little guy has a chance to make a career not working for The Man???

After seeing the investment of time put in by Marcus & Co. into OOTP and the feedback and eventual de-bugging and suggestions incorporated into the game over the years, FHM will get my money as the investment as well as my patience to get thier house in order. I KNOW I will get the return on my money in hours of playing long after EA has introduced the next sports sim for $53.99 or more.

As you have your opinion and expressed it - this is mine. We can just agree to disagree...
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Old 09-03-2013, 08:49 PM   #56
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Thank you so much Rand (fireholder) and Brad!

People please try to imagine yourself in the devs' position.
How would you like this pointless critique saying nothing particular but "the game is unplayable crap and you ignore my needs"?
And how would you like a report saying you what an user thinks is wrong, why it is wrong and how to get to the said situation so you can fix it?
How would these approaches affect your approach and your will to make the game better?

Please report bugs (in a useful way) and think before you post any critique. Don't think about not posting it at all but think about how to describe the problem constructively.

Thank you.
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:12 PM   #57
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It's unrealistic as hell to think this game was going to be bug-free.
i doubt that anyone thought the game was going to be bug free.problem most have is that it has alot of bugs atm and some that should have been fixed b4 release to a state of more playable then it is right now

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What Fireholder said. I talk to Jeff pretty much every day and can tell you that every time I've raised an issue that someone has mentioned on FB or Twitter, he's aware of it. Either that, or it was a problem unique to that person's situation. (For example, we can't test on every PC configuration known to exist - we don't have a big QA testing lab like big companies do.)

I also know there are problems that they've worked on for extended periods of time and have struggled to fix them, or sometimes they fix X, Y, and Z, but A and B break and they didn't realize it when they put the build out.

I can also tell you that if I get on my computer in the evening, or on the weekend (which was increasingly the case the last couple weeks), Jeff is always on IM. One time I asked him a question in the evening and said something like, "Sorry if I'm intruding on your down time." His response: "I have no down time right now."

These guys have worked their butts off the past several months to get this game in shape for release. They're just as frustrated as anyone else when bugs pop up. But, again, we're a very small company, and all it takes is for someone to get really sick and everything gets thrown out of whack. We have very little margin for error.

So, rest assured that bugs will be dealt with, and, yes, it's helpful to explain how the bug occurred. Saying "this is an unplayable mess" is pointless, and all it does is aggravate people who have put an enormous amount of effort into this game.

Thanks.
i get that but as i mentioned b4 contracts in the NHL should have been fixed as this is vital to the game.and the same goes for promotion and relegation in the swedish league(might be other leagues aswell i dont know)as this havent worked properly since they added the swedish leagues you cant get promoted and you will stay in the 2 league allways that isent very fun in a released game and should be working by now as they have had time to fix it
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:17 PM   #58
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I also know there are problems that they've worked on for extended periods of time and have struggled to fix them, or sometimes they fix X, Y, and Z, but A and B break and they didn't realize it when they put the build out.
yup, those things tend to slip by you when you get 3.5 hours of sleep a night for the past month.
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:49 PM   #59
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You should be pissed at them for procrastinating...leaving AI till the very end, while wasting time on Historical/custom leagues. Whats the point of custom league if AI is crap. I mean I can reproduce the same amount of enjoyment with Photoshop. I ll make you a picture roster of the 1980s NHL, and send it to you, you will have pretty much the same type of game.
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:52 PM   #60
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You should be pissed at them for procrastinating...leaving AI till the very end, while wasting time on Historical/custom leagues. Whats the point of custom league if AI is crap. I mean I can reproduce the same amount of enjoyment with Photoshop. I ll make you a picture roster of the 1980s NHL, and send it to you, you will have pretty much the same type of game.
While I don't agree with how you said it, I very much agree with the premise behind this. Quality always beats Quantity.
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