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Old 03-01-2013, 03:22 PM   #81
batdad
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I am loving the worry about the European leagues being adequately tested. From what I see here and know about the guys who work hard on things like this......I am more concerned the NHL, AHL, and CHL will not be tested adequately.


Well....not really.
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Old 03-01-2013, 03:40 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Orioles1966 View Post
I should have stated the start time for games. I prefer plenty of afternoon games on the weekends,where the NHL schedules mostly night games.
The stated difference between OOTP schedule files and FHM ones is that the latter also includes a field for entering in the site of the game, which allows neutral site games. This means there would be a field for the game start time, in which case you can always edit the start times yourself. It'd be relatively easy to change start times by importing the schedule file into a spreadsheet app, or even just a series of search & replace runs in Wordpad.

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Originally Posted by drewst18 View Post
There is no real time simulation like OOTP, so start times won't make a difference.
Start times may make a difference even without any sort of real-time simulation aspect. Something from real life that OOTP does not yet recreate is the fact that earlier in baseball's history there were notable differences between typical attendance depending on whether a game was played during the week or the weekend, or if a game was played in the afternoon or evening. For example, below is the average per game MLB attendance from 1940. Note these figures exclude doubleheaders, home openers, and holiday games.

Monday to Friday (day): 5,237
Monday to Friday (night): 20,420
Saturday: 7,703
Sunday: 17,613

You can see the dramatic difference in typical attendance between day and night games during the week—night games were close to four times greater, and were even better than Sunday afternoon games. Saturday games drew 47% better than weekday games, while Sundays drew 2.3 times better than Saturday and nearly 3.4 times better than weekday games. (Note that these sorts of differences in attendance between different days of the week gradually disappeared over the years.)

The question is whether attendance at hockey games illustrate the same sort of differences between days of the week and start time. Unfortunately, hockey attendance is nowhere near as readily available or comprehensive as it is for baseball (and even reliable game-by-game attendance for baseball is largely non-existent before 1938 or so).

The point is that if hockey attendance has been subject to the some sort of average variance depending on the day of the week or game start time, then that should be reflected in FHM at some point as attendance translates into ticket sales which in turn translates into revenue the GM of the hockey club has to spend on player salaries.

Last edited by Le Grande Orange; 03-01-2013 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 03-01-2013, 03:51 PM   #83
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I am loving the worry about the European leagues being adequately tested.
I bought Football Manager 2011 a while back and loved it even though I didn't follow soccer (yaya). Fantastic game BUT as I quickly learned, poor testing or devs or whatever allowed a huge bug to be introduced into a patch that ruined MLS and made it pretty much unplayable...I gave up and uninstalled it and probably wont buy a FM for a while.

Point being, test all divisions or risk losing players who care about playing what the know.
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Old 03-01-2013, 03:54 PM   #84
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Yes Le Grande Orange....totally common sense. But this is the first VERSION of a BRAND NEW hockey game that is going to a public BETA not to the GAMING MARKET in full yet. I think game start times, real time, moving teams, expansion, fantasy, fictional, and many many other requests for things are interesting.....BUT NOT IMPORTANT enough to be put in the game AT THIS POINT.

Again, like Jeff said.....focus on the AI....get it right. Get player ratings right...get behaviours right so that we have an ACCURATE SIMULATOR.....and a good basic game.

Never mind at this point making the wish list too big. Maybe....maybe come July or June or August....once the game has been perfected we can start adding teams on the moon.
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Old 03-01-2013, 04:01 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by batdad View Post
Yes Le Grande Orange....totally common sense. But this is the first VERSION of a BRAND NEW hockey game that is going to a public BETA not to the GAMING MARKET in full yet. I think game start times, real time, moving teams, expansion, fantasy, fictional, and many many other requests for things are interesting.....BUT NOT IMPORTANT enough to be put in the game AT THIS POINT.
Never said anything about it being made functional now (or even in this year's release version). I just wanted to correct the notion that game start time has no effect—it certainly has had an effect on baseball attendance in the past, and it may well have had an effect on hockey attendance too. (Someone would have to research the matter to know for sure though.)
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Old 03-01-2013, 04:13 PM   #86
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Yes Le Grande Orange....totally common sense. But this is the first VERSION of a BRAND NEW hockey game that is going to a public BETA not to the GAMING MARKET in full yet. I think game start times, real time, moving teams, expansion, fantasy, fictional, and many many other requests for things are interesting.....BUT NOT IMPORTANT enough to be put in the game AT THIS POINT.

Again, like Jeff said.....focus on the AI....get it right. Get player ratings right...get behaviours right so that we have an ACCURATE SIMULATOR.....and a good basic game.

Never mind at this point making the wish list too big. Maybe....maybe come July or June or August....once the game has been perfected we can start adding teams on the moon.
People don't unnderstand,this is a forum and questions will be asked.

Last edited by Orioles1966; 03-01-2013 at 04:18 PM.
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Old 03-01-2013, 04:21 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange View Post
Never said anything about it being made functional now (or even in this year's release version). I just wanted to correct the notion that game start time has no effect—it certainly has had an effect on baseball attendance in the past, and it may well have had an effect on hockey attendance too. (Someone would have to research the matter to know for sure though.)
Start times won't have any effect on what you can view in terms of in game is what I said. He said he wants different start times so he can watch the afternoon games, followed by night games without having to miss. Since it sims days at a time, not real time like OOTP 13 (13!! may I add) so start time will have no effect...

Not to mention you are talking about very minute details of historical mode. Why people are asking these questions when the AI can't sign their own free agents is beyond comprehensible, some people are delusional, and its frustrating that we have to sift through it on many threads, or just not come to the boards are the options

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Old 03-01-2013, 04:23 PM   #88
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Who made you boss???

LOL. no one Orioles. Just stating my opinion and real ideas as you are. No need to get upset about it.

And it is unfortunate everything you want won't be in the game right from the get go. So in the meantime....you should create a Fictional or fantaasy league thread and keep everything in there. Including time of game requests. That way the developers will make sure to see it, and not get lost in the clutter of the threads of those criticizing your ideas. It would IMHO serve your interests the best.

For me....just hoping to help out with making realistic AI and simulation realistic. Don't want the nightmare AI from EHM in this one. And from what I know of Jeff R.....it won't.

And yes L'Orange I know you were pointing it out in real life not in the game. And yes... I do believe even today day games during the week in MLB are less attended than weekend games for the most part. As long as not on a holiday. The proof is out there, as David Duchovny would say.

Just at this point...not sure what it would have to do with the game, or how it would affect it and make it not accurate or less worthy. It is really a MINOR MINOR issue for the game.

Get the big things sorted out first and go from there.


Ah LOL ....got the quote in there before you edited your post....again.
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Last edited by batdad; 03-01-2013 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 03-01-2013, 04:35 PM   #89
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LOL. no one Orioles. Just stating my opinion and real ideas as you are. No need to get upset about it.

And it is unfortunate everything you want won't be in the game right from the get go. So in the meantime....you should create a Fictional or fantaasy league thread and keep everything in there. Including time of game requests. That way the developers will make sure to see it, and not get lost in the clutter of the threads of those criticizing your ideas. It would IMHO serve your interests the best.

For me....just hoping to help out with making realistic AI and simulation realistic. Don't want the nightmare AI from EHM in this one. And from what I know of Jeff R.....it won't.

And yes L'Orange I know you were pointing it out in real life not in the game. And yes... I do believe even today day games during the week in MLB are less attended than weekend games for the most part. As long as not on a holiday. The proof is out there, as David Duchovny would say.

Just at this point...not sure what it would have to do with the game, or how it would affect it and make it not accurate or less worthy. It is really a MINOR MINOR issue for the game.

Get the big things sorted out first and go from there.


Ah LOL ....got the quote in there before you edited your post....again.
I'm just saying they mentioned about a neutral site option on the schedule generator and you made fun of it ,when afterall,it was mentioned as a feature.
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Old 03-01-2013, 04:42 PM   #90
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Not making fun of it Orioles. Saying it is not yet a priority. It is not included in the original beta. Like I said....you should really put all your suggestions together and into one thread to make sure not missed. Two lines surrounded by criticism and things in 20 threads..makes it hard for developer to read. All in one thread....they see it. Best way IMHO to get the attention your ideas deserve.
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Old 03-01-2013, 04:50 PM   #91
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Not making fun of it Orioles. Saying it is not yet a priority. It is not included in the original beta. Like I said....you should really put all your suggestions together and into one thread to make sure not missed. Two lines surrounded by criticism and things in 20 threads..makes it hard for developer to read. All in one thread....they see it. Best way IMHO to get the attention your ideas deserve.
It will be a feature sooner or later. Can't have everything too begin with because then there wouldn't be anything to add later on.
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Old 03-01-2013, 05:01 PM   #92
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I bought Football Manager 2011 a while back and loved it even though I didn't follow soccer (yaya). Fantastic game BUT as I quickly learned, poor testing or devs or whatever allowed a huge bug to be introduced into a patch that ruined MLS and made it pretty much unplayable...I gave up and uninstalled it and probably wont buy a FM for a while.

Point being, test all divisions or risk losing players who care about playing what the know.
This is the main reason I hate FM! (as well the fact that it's clunky and overloaded with crap these days) It's designed so you only play in Either England, Spain, Italy, France or Germany. Asia and North America are forgotten and pointless being in the game anymore which is a shame!

As for the point about the NHL being tested properly I'm sure it will? Haha, It's the main selling point of the game! I just think our North American friends forget sometimes that the NHL isn't the only hockey league in the world
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Old 03-01-2013, 05:07 PM   #93
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This is the main reason I hate FM! (as well the fact that it's clunky and overloaded with crap these days) It's designed so you only play in Either England, Spain, Italy, France or Germany. Asia and North America are forgotten and pointless being in the game anymore which is a shame!

As for the point about the NHL being tested properly I'm sure it will? Haha, It's the main selling point of the game! I just think our North American friends forget sometimes that the NHL isn't the only hockey league in the world
Yeah I know some do that. It was (as you could tell) a joke. With people like Archi, Alessandro...yourself and others...non NHL leagues will be well tested.I know alot more about the Western Leagues (CHL, AHL, NHL) and will put most of my efforts there.

Not alot of talk about how to address AI issues which may or may not be there. First thing I am going to do is try and trade for Marleau with 10 7th round picks. Long time EHMers will get that.
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Last edited by batdad; 03-01-2013 at 05:10 PM.
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Old 03-01-2013, 05:52 PM   #94
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Not to mention you are talking about very minute details of historical mode.
It has application to someone starting a fictionalized league set in an earlier time.

Don't discount seemingly 'minor' historical details. Very often those minor details are an important part of creating the overall feeling or flavour of a given historical period. To put it another way, the little details matter, and it's important to get them right. We can debate when such details should be implemented, but that's a separate issue.
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Old 03-01-2013, 05:55 PM   #95
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How's the online piece shaping up? Is something along the lines of one of the modern versions of OOTP scheduled for the first version? Or will we need to wait?
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Old 03-01-2013, 05:59 PM   #96
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Gaaaawd, I'm so pumped. (I even registered. Hi, folks. Long time listener, first time caller.)

Anybody here still play eastside? Anyone from the fhockey days?
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Old 03-01-2013, 06:02 PM   #97
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Gaaaawd, I'm so pumped. (I even registered. Hi, folks. Long time listener, first time caller.)

Anybody here still play eastside? Anyone from the fhockey days?
Interesting username, apart from anything else. Hi anyway lol.
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Old 03-01-2013, 06:03 PM   #98
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And yes... I do believe even today day games during the week in MLB are less attended than weekend games for the most part.
Not according to my look at Retrosheet data for the 2011 season. It turned out day games during the week are actually slightly better attended than night games on average. Given the growth in population and the changes to work hours and work shifts over the years, perhaps that ought not to be all that unexpected.

Getting back to hockey, I personally would be surprised to see much difference in attendance based on day of the week or start time. Offhand, given the fewer seats and fewer dates a hockey club has to fill compared to a baseball club, it would seem such factors would play a far smaller role. Unfortunately, as far as I'm aware, there is no equivalent to Retrosheet's game logs for the NHL or other hockey league, so doing any sort of statistical examination would seem difficult at best.
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Old 03-01-2013, 08:14 PM   #99
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Geez Orioles... give it a break allready. Yeah, I like Don Cherry too but can't you wait a few more days and find out for yourself? Every time Jeff or Sebastien comes on here is time away from what they should be doing. If it's post totals you're after, well, find a forum that's for posting for no good reason and post away.
Don't intend to be mean but I've grown quite tired reading his posts so I just skip over them at this point.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:06 PM   #100
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Gaaaawd, I'm so pumped. (I even registered. Hi, folks. Long time listener, first time caller.)

Anybody here still play eastside? Anyone from the fhockey days?
I haven't been on FHockey in a very long time. Is it still going to be up and running with FHM in mind?
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