Turn Storylines off???

[Bowtie]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Shhh! You'll get marked down as a troublemaker like me for saying things like that.

Originally Posted by Andreas Raht

That is not true and it's offending me, Wolf. I'll never understand constructive criticism as "troublemaking". But I understand what you're doing here as trolling. I'm ready to give you some infraction points

Andreas,

Sir, please chill. That post you made has really ruffled my feathers and that's the wrong thing to do. I can't stand it when someone of authority steps over the line. Wolf was just being silly. No rhyme nor reason for you to get your intestines in a knot. Oh and yes, you made an uncalled for threat - which by the way I have a screenshot of in case you try to sweep it under the rug. I very strongly suggest you apologize to Wolf. It, IMHO, would be the right thing for you to do. You have also wrongly accused Wolf of trolling. You know, I think if anyone gets any infractions here it should be you.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by soxfan34

Maybe we should all just take a time out from the forums to become lumberjacks (insert storyline).

BARBER:
I wanted to be... a lumberjack!

Leaping from tree to tree, as they float down the mighty rivers of British Columbia. The Giant Redwood. The Larch. The Fir! The mighty Scots Pine! The lofty flowering Cherry! The plucky little Apsen! The limping Roo tree of Nigeria. The towering Wattle of Aldershot! The Maidenhead Weeping Water Plant! The naughty Leicestershire Flashing Oak! The flatulent Elm of West Ruislip! The Quercus Maximus Bamber Gascoigni! The Epigillus! The Barter Hughius Greenus!

With my best buddy by my side, we'd sing! Sing! Sing!

[singing]
I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay.
I sleep all night and I work all day.

MOUNTIES:
He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.

BARBER:
I cut down trees. I eat my lunch.
I go to the lavatory.
On Wednesdays I go shoppin'
And have buttered scones for tea.

MOUNTIES:
He cuts down trees. He eats his lunch.
He goes to the lavatory.
On Wednesdays he goes shopping
And has buttered scones for tea.

He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.

BARBER:
I cut down trees. I skip and jump.
I like to press wild flowers.
I put on women's clothing
And hang around in bars.

MOUNTIES:
He cuts down trees. He skips and jumps.
He likes to press wild flowers.
He puts on women's clothing
And hangs around in bars?!

He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.

BARBER:
I cut down trees. I wear high heels,
Suspendies, and a bra.
I wish I'd been a girlie,
Just like my dear Papa.

MOUNTIES:
He cuts down trees. He wears high heels,
Suspendies, and a bra?!

[talking]
What's this? Wants to be a girlie?! Oh, My!
And I thought you were so rugged! Poofter!...

[singing]
He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.

He's a lumberjack, and he's okaaaaay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.

[D-BacksJosh]

Originally Posted by injury log

• And, more important still, there is nowhere near as much randomness in OOTP now as there is in real life, with or without storylines. I don't know that this is a bad thing, because OOTP is a game, and people want games to be fun. But if you ever do something like compare the bust-rate of 1st round draft picks in real life and in OOTP, you'll find that player development in OOTP is vastly more predictable than real life player development. OOTP actually needs more randomness, not less, if you want it to get closer to reality.

Absolutely agree.

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by Bowtie

Andreas,

Sir, please chill. That post you made has really ruffled my feathers and that's the wrong thing to do. I can't stand it when someone of authority steps over the line. Wolf was just being silly. No rhyme nor reason for you to get your intestines in a knot. Oh and yes, you made an uncalled for threat - which by the way I have a screenshot of in case you try to sweep it under the rug. I very strongly suggest you apologize to Wolf. If you refuse to do so, I will send Markus an email and kindly request for disciplinary action. You have also wrongly accused Wolf of trolling. You know, I think if anyone gets any infractions here it should be you.

I hope this is meant in jest, because it is the perfect parody of a Wolf post and had me in stitches until I though maybe you were serious.

The humor and awesome parody factor comes from an (apparently) irate and livid individual on the brink of losing self control counseling another to chill or else

Brilliant!

[The Wolf]

Injurylog:

We disagree, as usual. If you can't see that storylines - essentially extra random events - increase randomness in a league then there is no point in us discussing the subject.

I know that you love storylines as is and I think that they're still in early beta, so we are probably best off avoiding that discussion entirely.

Here's a different one: did you read my six suggestions to improve storylines?

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Questdog

I hope this is meant in jest, because it is the perfect parody of a Wolf post and had me in stitches until I though maybe you were serious.

The humor and awesome parody factor comes from an (apparently) irate and livid individual on the brink of losing self control counseling another to chill or else

Brilliant!

You missed the mark entirely, and I suspect on purpose.

[Questdog]

Why don't you address my concerns with your statements?

Specifically, how an extra handful of random events in a pool of 250,000 in a season can have any significant impact

Even if ALL the storylines were base on "The Lottery" by Shirley Jackson, and we sacrificed a player to the god of baseball every month, there would be no statistically significant impact on the league

[Bowtie]

Originally Posted by Questdog

I hope this is meant in jest, because it is the perfect parody of a Wolf post and had me in stitches until I though maybe you were serious.

The humor and awesome parody factor comes from an (apparently) irate and livid individual on the brink of losing self control counseling another to chill or else

Brilliant!

Questdog,

In all honesty, we can not have the type of conduct that Andreas displayed by a paid employee of the company - especially of all places in a public forum. Andreas knows the proper protocol. If he has any problems with Wolf then he should deal with them either via PM or email but not publicly. I, as well as others, have every right to be offended and voice our displeasure when someone of authority chooses to throw the rules under the bus as Andreas clearly has.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Questdog

Why don't you address my concerns with your statements?

We disagree. You think the effect is trivial and I think it's significant. There's no middle ground and neither of us will convince the other, so the discussion would be pointless. We'd just get into another knock-down dragout. You go your way, and I'll go mine.

I do see now why do many of you are angry over this issue. Some of you love storylines as is, and I think they're nothing more than an early beta that needs a lot of work.

[injury log]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

If you can't see that storylines - essentially extra random events - increase randomness in a league

Did I not explicitly acknowledge that storylines add to randomness? Can you read the 3rd and 6th bullet points in my post again please? Additional randomness is not necessarily a bad thing, was my point.

Originally Posted by The Wolf

I know that you love storylines as is

I do not. When have I ever said that?

If you want to have a conversation about how to improve storylines, I'm all for that. If you want to just make up opinions I don't hold and attack me for them, then I hope you can understand that I'm not interested.

And yes, I did read your post about how storylines might be improved. I think there are more fundamental improvements to be made, but many of those ideas have been brought up already.

[soxfan34]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

BARBER:
I wanted to be... a lumberjack!

Leaping from tree to tree, as they float down the mighty rivers of British Columbia. The Giant Redwood. The Larch. The Fir! The mighty Scots Pine! The lofty flowering Cherry! The plucky little Apsen! The limping Roo tree of Nigeria. The towering Wattle of Aldershot! The Maidenhead Weeping Water Plant! The naughty Leicestershire Flashing Oak! The flatulent Elm of West Ruislip! The Quercus Maximus Bamber Gascoigni! The Epigillus! The Barter Hughius Greenus!

With my best buddy by my side, we'd sing! Sing! Sing!

[singing]
I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay.
I sleep all night and I work all day.

MOUNTIES:
He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.

BARBER:
I cut down trees. I eat my lunch.
I go to the lavatory.
On Wednesdays I go shoppin'
And have buttered scones for tea.

MOUNTIES:
He cuts down trees. He eats his lunch.
He goes to the lavatory.
On Wednesdays he goes shopping
And has buttered scones for tea.

He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.

BARBER:
I cut down trees. I skip and jump.
I like to press wild flowers.
I put on women's clothing
And hang around in bars.

MOUNTIES:
He cuts down trees. He skips and jumps.
He likes to press wild flowers.
He puts on women's clothing
And hangs around in bars?!

He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.

BARBER:
I cut down trees. I wear high heels,
Suspendies, and a bra.
I wish I'd been a girlie,
Just like my dear Papa.

MOUNTIES:
He cuts down trees. He wears high heels,
Suspendies, and a bra?!

[talking]
What's this? Wants to be a girlie?! Oh, My!
And I thought you were so rugged! Poofter!...

[singing]
He's a lumberjack, and he's okay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.

He's a lumberjack, and he's okaaaaay.
He sleeps all night and he works all day.

hahahaha

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

We disagree. You think the effect is trivial and I think it's significant. There's no middle ground and neither of us will convince the other, so the discussion would be pointless. We'd just get into another knock-down dragout. You go your way, and I'll go mine.

I do see now why do many of you are angry over this issue. Some of you love storylines as is, and I think they're nothing more than an early beta that needs a lot of work.

Statistically significant is not an opinion, but something that can be shown mathematically

P S That's another of your annoying tactics: with no rebuttal, you resort to "You have your opinion, I have mine" and continue to press your disputed position

Arguing about things can be healthy if done in the proper spirit, but what you are doing is not putting forth a position and debating the pros and cons; you are running a propaganda campaign where the object is not to come to a consensus opinion but to further a particular opinion by any means and score points rather than make them

I mean this in a general sense on how you communicate on these boards, and not only about the present issue under discussion

PS#2 It is generally not considered good form to continue to make a point that has been challenged unless the challenge is answered

I don't like storylines as they stand one bit, but I like your arguments and slanders against them even less

[The Wolf]

QuestDog:

I don't like the way you argue either. I especially dislike how you consistently misrepresent my viewpoints, arguments and methods.

I tire of you telling me how I must answer this or that, or do X your way. No way that is ever happening.

You demand a response? Hah. Where is my response to my four questions from OOTP? They felt that they were not obligated to discuss this matter on my terms. Surprise, I will never discuss anything with you on yours, only on mine.

[The Wolf]

And I wrote " significant" and not "statistically significant." You may not be aware that those are two separate things. Or perhaps you are, but just want to provoke me into a online fight I'm trying not to have.

In either case, you failed.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by injury log

And yes, I did read your post about how storylines might be improved. I think there are more fundamental improvements to be made, but many of those ideas have been brought up already.

Instead of us fighting, how about you list all of the proposed improvements - including mine - and we discuss them in a friendly manner in an effort to improve the game?

[damientheomen3]

At the end of the day, Wolf is free to play the game how he wants, and he doesn't have to have a good reason for playing it the way he does. I like to play with the Rule V Draft turned off; why? I have no clue. I just don't like having the Rule V Draft. Whether or not Wolf's concerns are rational (and they aren't, considering his concerns with the feature occurred a version ago and have since been ironed out) doesn't matter.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Let's look at another aspect of this great game, league evolution. I think league evolution has tons and tons of potential, but as things stand now I feel it is a feature that was added to the game and forgotten. Nothing has been added or improved about it since its addition.

I'd agree with that.

I personally say that's because of the seeming ad hoc nature with which certain features are approved and then added to the game. Sometimes it feels as if there is no long-range plan in mind for a given feature. (To be fair though perhaps the proponent of the feature isn't doing enough of a job to make that long-range vision clear and understandable to the developers.)

[hefalumps]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

QuestDog:

You demand a response? Hah. Where is my response to my four questions from OOTP? They felt that they were not obligated to discuss this matter on my terms.

Um, Wolf, I hate to get involved here, but Injury log *did* respond to your four questions, and you basically blew off his response by saying "You don't see storylines the way I see storylines, so it's not worth discussing."

I think we've all established that storylines are not for everyone and flawed in places, but they can be improved. I actually tried to steer the conversation in that direction by suggesting that OOTP give us the ability to categorize the storylines so we could pick and choose what *types* of storylines we wanted to include instead of just enabling/disabling them altogether. But I guess it got lost in all the arguing and that wonderful lumberjack tangent.

I think what we need is for everyone to agree to disagree, Andreas to come in and say whatever he needs to say now that this thread has blown up, and then lock this thread down and start a new one called "Suggestions for Improving Storylines". Then maybe we could all work to improving an aspect of the game that has a lot of promise and could be really cool after a few iterations.

And that's all I have to say about that.

[Questdog]

Playing and posting are two different activities

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by damientheomen3

At the end of the day, Wolf is free to play the game how he wants, and he doesn't have to have a good reason for playing it the way he does. I like to play with the Rule V Draft turned off; why? I have no clue. I just don't like having the Rule V Draft. Whether or not Wolf's concerns are rational (and they aren't, considering his concerns with the feature occurred a version ago and have since been ironed out) doesn't matter.

They have not been "ironed out." See my list of ways to improve storylines earlier in the thread, or any of the recent threads complaining about storylines.