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Old 02-13-2020, 12:22 PM   #301
Bluenoser
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Originally Posted by Déjà Bru View Post
This is a thought-provoking comment. What about the fans? There is really nothing to be done, of course, but what is to be said about the desire to lump fans into the discussion?

I guess it goes to the rage that other fans feel. I myself have thought repeatedly about the 2017 ALCS, how tight a series that was, and how the Astros won every game in Houston.

If they are to be punished, Astros fans must endure the knowledge that their team cheated and will wonder if their team really deserved to win it all in 2017. That's how I would feel, badly, about the 2009 Yankees if similar revelations were ever uncovered about that team. That suffices as punishment.
I can agree with this statement, but I can't agree with making them sit in an old, cold stadium to watch their team, as was previously suggested. They had no control what-so-ever over the sign stealing.
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Old 02-13-2020, 12:37 PM   #302
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I can agree with this statement, but I can't agree with making them sit in an old, cold stadium to watch their team, as was previously suggested. They had no control what-so-ever over the sign stealing.
That stadium wasn't cold. It was hot and muggy and ridden with mosquitoes!
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Old 02-13-2020, 12:41 PM   #303
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Just curious, but why do the fans deserve to be punished?
I've never seen any articles that Houston fans are repentant. They enjoyed the cheating, now won't admit they didn't deserve that enjoyment. So make them suffer.

That's the Christian thing to do, is it not?
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Old 02-13-2020, 12:44 PM   #304
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The Punishment Fit the Crime

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXMszatHSOE
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Old 02-13-2020, 01:10 PM   #305
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https://twitter.com/cbssports/status...70396793774082

What a bunch of absolute idiots involved in this. Crane should be forced to sell the team. The players are all pieces of ****.

Manfred being the biggest one of all. Should be fired immediately for not stripping the title.
Well, at least they took responsi ....
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Old 02-13-2020, 02:48 PM   #306
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I'd be surprised if more doesn't come out about other teams or players. There's definitely more gonna come out

(also no I wouldn't personally punish the fans, but the crappy stadium for the players is still a good idea )
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Old 02-13-2020, 03:32 PM   #307
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I've never seen any articles that Houston fans are repentant. They enjoyed the cheating, now won't admit they didn't deserve that enjoyment. So make them suffer.

That's the Christian thing to do, is it not?
And what exactly is it the fans have to be repentant for? Did they steal signs?
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Old 02-13-2020, 04:32 PM   #308
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Okay, the record for getting hit by pitch during a season is 51, set by Hughie Jennings in 1896. Ron Hunt got hit 50 times in 1970. Is it possible Bregman surpasses 51 by mid May?
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Old 02-13-2020, 04:54 PM   #309
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Okay, the record for getting hit by pitch during a season is 51, set by Hughie Jennings in 1896. Ron Hunt got hit 50 times in 1970. Is it possible Bregman surpasses 51 by mid May?

What happens if you bean the runner at first instead of trying to pick him off? Asking for a friend.
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Old 02-13-2020, 05:16 PM   #310
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OK, I now see the issue. You didn't read the article. Never mind.
I did read the article so no need to be sarcastic.
What is unclear to you about MAKING managerial decisions BASED on your betting needs? Thats exactly what the article alleged he was doing by not using players and then not betting on those 4 games.
There is more proof of the Astros cheating than there is in Rose making roster adjustments according to how he was betting or not betting on a game.
Again the article's argument is weak. Do you not think this would have been brought up against him a long long time ago if there were better evidence to support that claim? Yes Rose bet on baseball but even his gambling was no match for his desire to win. I just dont see him resting good players because he wasnt betting on that game.
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Old 02-13-2020, 05:26 PM   #311
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I did read the article so no need to be sarcastic.
What is unclear to you about MAKING managerial decisions BASED on your betting needs? Thats exactly what the article alleged he was doing by not using players and then not betting on those 4 games.
There is more proof of the Astros cheating than there is in Rose making roster adjustments according to how he was betting or not betting on a game.
Again the article's argument is weak. Do you not think this would have been brought up against him a long long time ago if there were better evidence to support that claim? Yes Rose bet on baseball but even his gambling was no match for his desire to win. I just dont see him resting good players because he wasnt betting on that game.
I don't know that we can say for sure that "his gambling was no match for his desire to win". He has changed his story so much through the years that I have no real confidence that he never bet against the Reds, nor am I sure that his desire to win a bet wasn't as big as his desire to win a game. The only thing we know for sure about Pete and his gambling is that he will say whatever he thinks will get him reinstated.
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Old 02-13-2020, 05:38 PM   #312
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This is a thought-provoking comment. What about the fans? There is really nothing to be done, of course, but what is to be said about the desire to lump fans into the discussion?

I guess it goes to the rage that other fans feel. I myself have thought repeatedly about the 2017 ALCS, how tight a series that was, and how the Astros won every game in Houston.

If they are to be punished, Astros fans must endure the knowledge that their team cheated and will wonder if their team really deserved to win it all in 2017. That's how I would feel, badly, about the 2009 Yankees if similar revelations were ever uncovered about that team. That suffices as punishment.
Fans don't deserve punishment. Just like sons & daughters don't deserve to grow up w/o their parents because ma & pop are in prison. But we don't give a crud about that when sentencing, so I don't know why anyone should be concerned the Astros' fans can't wear their "2017 WS Champs" t-shirts w/pride. You know who should have been thinking about the Astros' fans? The Astros.
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Old 02-13-2020, 06:44 PM   #313
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No one is saying to retroactively punish fans, but anyone who is still a fan of those cheaters "wearing with pride" a shirt for a fraudulent championship is a person of no integrity at all so I've got no problem if they suffer going forward.

Last edited by dkgo; 02-13-2020 at 06:47 PM.
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Old 02-13-2020, 07:28 PM   #314
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As long as the people wearing the WS Champs gear would have no issue at all with Rangers fans doing the same if they had cheated and won the Series as well

But, I have the oddest suspicion that the "proud of My cheaters" fans would largely be the most outspoken about it if the shoe were on the other foot
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Old 02-13-2020, 07:28 PM   #315
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the forum apparently bugged out and double posted
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Old 02-13-2020, 09:50 PM   #316
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I did read the article so no need to be sarcastic.
No sarcasm intended. I thought it was a reasonable explanation. And it offered you a way out.
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Old 02-13-2020, 10:00 PM   #317
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How about the Astros offer full refunds to anyone who bought 2017 World Champs stuff. That makes those embarrassed by the Astros monetarily whole. And anyone left wearing the stuff, well, we'll know they're morally deficient.
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Old 02-13-2020, 10:21 PM   #318
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What happens if you bean the runner at first instead of trying to pick him off? Asking for a friend.
Well, since it's Bregman I'm sure he will still have his bat in hand.....
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Old 02-13-2020, 10:56 PM   #319
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No sarcasm intended. I thought it was a reasonable explanation. And it offered you a way out.
Only thing I am unclear on is why you think making managerial decisions based on your betting needs would not include sitting or starting a player based on whether you were betting on the game.
That is clearly what the article was saying Rose did.
Which could be true but I dont see enough evidence to support it.
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Old 02-14-2020, 12:57 AM   #320
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The article is pretty terrible but accidentally hits near a point that matters, which is possible involvement in some sort of syndicate even if he didn't bet on those games himself. But they do a really stupid job of showing it just by saying "he sometimes didn't bet on games they were big underdogs and he used the same mop-up reliever in mop-up duty."
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