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Old 03-10-2019, 09:50 PM   #21
Cobra Mgr
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Originally Posted by damientheomen3 View Post

For the Steelers' sake, maybe having Bell and Brown out of town will help shape up the locker room, and maybe it'll open Tomlin's eyes to holding Ben more accountable, but considering the fire he and Colbert are probably feeling for mismanaging Brown's whims to the point of having to take pennies on the dollar for him, we'll see if he can really do that.
I don't think it is a matter of holding Ben accountable. I think it is a matter of holding EVERYONE accountable. Ben can speak his mind if he wants. If he is captain & QB he is supposed to speak up. That's in his job description. But there should be no question who the loudest voice in the locker room belongs to. Every Steeler should recognize that. So if Ben is getting on Brown's nerves Tomlin should detect it and step in. And if Brown is slacking of on his preparation, Ben shouldn't be the only one to bring it up.

What happened last year wasn't a result of sudden blow up. It wasn't something that started last preseason. This was a cluster of weeds that Tomlin didn't nip in the bud a long time ago. And now management has made the situation worse.
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Old 03-10-2019, 10:28 PM   #22
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I'd still put Julio Jones over AB as well, and could see Tyreek Hill potentially passing him up soon as well with that plus-plus athleticism. Like I said, we'll see how he does now that his QB is down a tier.
I forgot about Julio but i would still put AB ahead of him.
I dont think there will be much of a drop off in qb. Ben is getting older and Carr has never had a consistent deep threat. I think Carr got better in gruden's system as the year went on. If Carr was still playing as bad as the first 5 games i would be concerned.
Im more concerned with losing Cook and if Nelson is done. Also a better option at the 3rd receiver than Seth Roberts. I like Seth as a 4th receiver and he does make some big plays but he also has some stupid penalties
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Old 03-10-2019, 11:11 PM   #23
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I don't think it is a matter of holding Ben accountable. I think it is a matter of holding EVERYONE accountable. Ben can speak his mind if he wants. If he is captain & QB he is supposed to speak up. That's in his job description. But there should be no question who the loudest voice in the locker room belongs to. Every Steeler should recognize that. So if Ben is getting on Brown's nerves Tomlin should detect it and step in. And if Brown is slacking of on his preparation, Ben shouldn't be the only one to bring it up.

What happened last year wasn't a result of sudden blow up. It wasn't something that started last preseason. This was a cluster of weeds that Tomlin didn't nip in the bud a long time ago. And now management has made the situation worse.
As far as what I've read, AB's complaint was that Tomlin would chastise certain players but not others. Between that and how much he's talked about Ben, I've assumed it's mainly been Ben's treatment that was the issue here. Overall Tomlin seems like a weird coach, like he has no issue taking initiative and being gruff with players as long as they're not super meaningful to the franchise. Seems less like a player's coach and more like a bad teacher with some students getting preferential treatment and others getting unnecessary negativity. Now we're gonna have to see if Colbert can strike gold at the wide receiver position yet again, although finally building a good secondary in that division with Baker knocking on the door should be a big priority too.
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Old 03-10-2019, 11:14 PM   #24
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I forgot about Julio but i would still put AB ahead of him.
I dont think there will be much of a drop off in qb. Ben is getting older and Carr has never had a consistent deep threat. I think Carr got better in gruden's system as the year went on. If Carr was still playing as bad as the first 5 games i would be concerned.
Im more concerned with losing Cook and if Nelson is done. Also a better option at the 3rd receiver than Seth Roberts. I like Seth as a 4th receiver and he does make some big plays but he also has some stupid penalties
Ben is getting older and had some more ugly throws this past season than usual but he was still at least on the cusp of the elite class of QBs. Carr is in that massive second tier, QBs you can win with but that you likely won't win because of. I think playing half a season with Jared Cook and a receiving core that wouldn't make an NCAA bowl game could be positive for Carr's development, along with of course adding AB. Step one though is to see if Gruden is actually committed to Carr, I won't believe it until the draft happens.
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Old 03-11-2019, 02:30 PM   #25
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I like this signing for the Raiders - they are certainly adding to the offense, we need to focus on our sad sack defense in the draft (wait, did I just use the word "sack" in the same sentence with Raiders?).

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...o-4yr-66m-deal
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Old 03-11-2019, 02:42 PM   #26
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We'll see on Trent Brown. Right now that looks like an overpay to me, although like Brady Carr has a lightning quick release so if he has one more weapon that can get open steadily it'll help.

The 49ers massively, massively overpay Kwon Alexander. He has flashes, sure, and that makes for a great highlight tape, but he has major consistency issues in coverage and could lose a step from his ACL. Making him the highest paid ILB by over $1 million AAV is just furthering my thoughts that John Lynch might not be the guy to run that front office.

Rams reportedly re-sign Dante Fowler for 1 yr, $14 million. Strong move for them to see if he can build on his strong postseason.

And then Malik Jackson goes to the Eagles on a 3yr, $30 million deal. I like the move for them, Jackson was good for the Jags this past season but just cost too much. He'll replace Michael Bennett nicely as the Eagles maintain one of the very best D-lines in the league.

More dominoes to fall shortly. This is what I wait for every year.
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Old 03-11-2019, 04:27 PM   #27
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We'll see on Trent Brown. Right now that looks like an overpay to me, although like Brady Carr has a lightning quick release so if he has one more weapon that can get open steadily it'll help.

The 49ers massively, massively overpay Kwon Alexander. He has flashes, sure, and that makes for a great highlight tape, but he has major consistency issues in coverage and could lose a step from his ACL. Making him the highest paid ILB by over $1 million AAV is just furthering my thoughts that John Lynch might not be the guy to run that front office.

Rams reportedly re-sign Dante Fowler for 1 yr, $14 million. Strong move for them to see if he can build on his strong postseason.

And then Malik Jackson goes to the Eagles on a 3yr, $30 million deal. I like the move for them, Jackson was good for the Jags this past season but just cost too much. He'll replace Michael Bennett nicely as the Eagles maintain one of the very best D-lines in the league.

More dominoes to fall shortly. This is what I wait for every year.
Agreed, but when it comes right down to it, 90% of FA signings are overpay's. Only time will tell if he's worth it.

I like that he's only 25, and still has some good years left in the tank. Better than 30 and mostly used up.

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Old 03-11-2019, 05:23 PM   #28
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Nick Foles to the Jags. Four/$88M, $50 guaranteed.
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Old 03-11-2019, 06:11 PM   #29
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QB's have certainly been getting paid the past few years.
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Old 03-11-2019, 07:20 PM   #30
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QB's have certainly been getting paid the past few years.
It's a seller's market. Everyone needs one. QB's capable of starting don't become available too often. And if you have one, you gotta take out a loan to keep him because of the mediocre ones that were overpriced.
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Old 03-11-2019, 07:31 PM   #31
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It's a seller's market. Everyone needs one. QB's capable of starting don't become available too often. And if you have one, you gotta take out a loan to keep him because of the mediocre ones that were overpriced.
Indeed. I was referring to guys like Cousins, Smith, Garappolo getting paid big $ by new teams, and in some cases they haven't lived up to the "Capable of starting" criteria.

Buy ya, if you have some one good you gotta pay him. I'm going to be watching closely to see how Foles does for what he's being paid. Big dif with Foles though is the "proven" part, he's got a ring.
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Old 03-12-2019, 11:28 AM   #32
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AB played 15 games this season and had a career high 15 TD's.

Are you thinking of Bell? He skipped the season.
I'm not thinking of Bell, I'm thinking Juju. The guy has amazing talent and lightning speed. I'll take a wire to wire WR any day. He's a pretty good route runner too. Combine the two and he's off the charts.
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Old 03-12-2019, 11:36 AM   #33
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Huh?
Other than Odell Beckham theres no one that compares to him. Juju was able to get 100 catches because of Brown and Brown still got over 100 receptions. You can question his attitude but i dont think you can question that he is at this point the #1 or #2 receiver in the game.
No, I'll question him. I've played WR for my entire youth. I know for a fact Brown lost a few steps. It's simply isn't possible not to by the age of 30. That automatically lowers your ability. I'll reserve the #1 and #2 WRs for those that can run good routes and have break away speed. They will ALWAYS be the best WRs.
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Old 03-12-2019, 11:38 AM   #34
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I'm not thinking of Bell, I'm thinking Juju. The guy has amazing talent and lightning speed. I'll take a wire to wire WR any day. He's a pretty good route runner too. Combine the two and he's off the charts.
Your quote -
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Brown is going to be 31. He wasn't the best WR on the Steelers, he certainly is not 1 or 2 in the league. Don't live in the past. He's been out of the game an entire year and has lost a few steps.

But not a bad deal for the Raiders. He's still a very good WR, just don't expect what you saw 3-5 years ago.
Brown hasn't been out of the game for a year, Bell has. Not sure where JuJu came into the conversation.
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Old 03-12-2019, 06:38 PM   #35
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No, I'll question him. I've played WR for my entire youth. I know for a fact Brown lost a few steps. It's simply isn't possible not to by the age of 30. That automatically lowers your ability. I'll reserve the #1 and #2 WRs for those that can run good routes and have break away speed. They will ALWAYS be the best WRs.

Running good routes dont mean anything if you can't catch the ball.
He went over 100 catches for like the 6th year in a row.
Thats lost a step?

He probably would have more if not for the fact that JuJu became another option.
Sure he is gonna decline but right now he is still putting up numbers that put him up in the top. There are receivers that have had big years but how many current receivers have 100 receptions year after year?
To be the best you need to be consistent.
Who else compares to him on the market?
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Old 03-12-2019, 09:49 PM   #36
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As a Chiefs fan, I am glad to see what the Browns are doing. Agree with their moves or not, Dorsey seems to be telling the team and the city "Enough!" If...IF they land Earl Thomas, look out! You know this is all Dorsey because Haslam isn't smart enough to even weigh in on these moves! I hope all works out Cleveland! I chop wood for the Chiefs going to the Super Bowl, but it would be nice to see the Browns come up like Godzilla out of the sea.
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Old 03-12-2019, 11:16 PM   #37
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Ok. I gotta fuss about what I just heard from Louis Riddick. He is saying Gettleman is going to have to "answer" for what changed after he said earlier they didn't sign OBJ in order to trade him.

Pittsburgh got for Anthony Brown a 3rd & 5th rd pick

The Giants received a 1st, 3rd and a player for OBJ.

Is Beckham that more valuable? No. Both are talented, but trouble making divas. What happened was the Rooneys publicly said they couldn't bring AB back next season. Gettleman publicly said we expect to keep OBJ. That turned the asking prices in opposite directions. Pittsburgh looked desperate. The Giants looked content. The league knew they could get a bargain in AB. The Browns knew they would have to bid high to get NY to budge.

As much as I don't like Gettleman, I have to defend him on this. He didn't allow himself to be backed into a corner. The Rooney's painted themselves into one. The media isn't owed the truth. It is their job to get the truth.
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Old 03-13-2019, 01:01 AM   #38
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Ok. I gotta fuss about what I just heard from Louis Riddick. He is saying Gettleman is going to have to "answer" for what changed after he said earlier they didn't sign OBJ in order to trade him.

Pittsburgh got for Anthony Brown a 3rd & 5th rd pick

The Giants received a 1st, 3rd and a player for OBJ.

Is Beckham that more valuable? No. Both are talented, but trouble making divas. What happened was the Rooneys publicly said they couldn't bring AB back next season. Gettleman publicly said we expect to keep OBJ. That turned the asking prices in opposite directions. Pittsburgh looked desperate. The Giants looked content. The league knew they could get a bargain in AB. The Browns knew they would have to bid high to get NY to budge.

As much as I don't like Gettleman, I have to defend him on this. He didn't allow himself to be backed into a corner. The Rooney's painted themselves into one. The media isn't owed the truth. It is their job to get the truth.

On the other hand, Odell is 26 and had his contract. AB is gonna be 31 and needed his contract to be hammered out, with specific demands for guarantees. He also set out to damage his value as much as possible all offseason pretty much.


Overall I don't think it's the worst deal in the world, but the Giants are the clear losers. It all comes down to this: in the NFL, more than any other league, draft picks are grossly overvalued. Josh Rosen bombs on the least talented offense in the league and goes from being a top 10 pick to being worth, at most, a third a season later. Jabrill Peppers was very good for Cleveland, but he's a step down from Collins. And then, are they really gonna get players at #17 and #95 that are going to come close to matching OBJ's value? Receivers like him don't come around often, iirc according to ProFootballFocus he's forced the most missed tackles of all WRs by a longshot in every healthy season, and of course he's top five in the league in receptions per game, receiving yards per game, and yards per target since coming in.



But where I really hold this against Gettleman, is that he said the Giants were in on trying to compete with Eli. I understand you have to put some smoke out there, not show your hand, but to go from making some win-now moves (including drafting a RB over a QB at #2 when you have no O-line either), to letting Landon Collins walk and trading OBJ, the team looks directionless to me. The good news for the Giants is that Gettleman has a great track record in the draft from his days in Carolina. But if this deal doesn't portend the team moving up for a QB in this upcoming draft, they're actively lying to their fanbase by having one foot in each camp of rebuilding and treading water (which is as much as this Giants roster will do).


Cleveland, on the other hand, has had a terrific offseason. Dealing Zeitler was tough, but if they believe in Austin Corbett that much it's worth it to get Olivier Vernon. Adding Sheldon Richardson to that D-Line as well makes it incredibly potent. They gave up a lot for OBJ, but they're at the right time in their cycle to make that move (especially since they're gonna have to pay Baker and Ward at the same time since they were first rounders in the same draft). They need defensive backs but otherwise they have a very strong, complete roster assuming no regression in their young talent. I'm not crowning them Super Bowl champs now like a lot of people are, but I wouldn't be surprised if Vegas has them as the favorite out of the AFC (which of course you shouldn't take as the Patriots are winning the AFC every year until 2081).
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Old 03-13-2019, 07:30 AM   #39
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Giants aren't directionless. Gettleman is doing the same thing he did @ Carolina. Steve Smith/Josh Norman became OBJ/Landon Collins. Gettleman believes players who line up further from the ball are less important, easily replaceable, and shouldn't take up too much of your cap space. He'd rather invest in the front 5/front 7 & thinks WR's & DB's non essential.


And he is faaaaaaaarrrrr from a draft guru. Last season's Panther roster had just 5 players he drafted over 5 yrs start. Only half of the picks he selected from the 1st 2 rounds are even with the team.

So like I said, I don't like him. Giants can have him. I just don't believe Gettleman owes anybody an explanation or a heads up on what he's thinking before he acts. Don't show your hand until the hand.
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Old 03-13-2019, 12:25 PM   #40
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As a Giants fan, I agree with Cobra Mgr. I'm not going to miss Odell. He is talented, sure, but he recently has not been very impactful to the team's results, has he? And he is a goddamned distraction and a prima donna which the Giants do not need.
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