|
||||
|
|
Talk Sports Discuss everything that is sports-related, like MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA, MLS, NASCAR, NCAA sports and teams, trades, coaches, bad calls etc. |
|
Thread Tools |
04-20-2017, 08:36 PM | #1 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: May 2002
Location: fort worth, tx
Posts: 10,850
|
The "Steroids Era"
Joe Sheehan published my fave baseball article in ages today at FanGraphs. It's a rebuke to all the idjits who thumb their noses at the accomplishments of the great baseball players of the past quarter century and attribute it all to steroids abuse.
How now, yokels, to explain players bashing home runs at historic rates , as we speak, while being rigorously tested? All those numbskulls who won't even consider voting for a player slurred by innuendo and bull#### need to do some 'splaining. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/starl...f-ped-testing/
__________________
"The Human Torch was denied a bank loan." |
04-21-2017, 07:36 AM | #2 |
Hall Of Famer
|
Wow! How do you really feel about this?
I have never been on board with the "Don't vote Player X into the HoF because his numbers are probably juiced" argument or the "His season record shouldn't count because he was probably juiced" argument because there is no way at all to determine if or how his numbers were effected.
__________________
5000+ Generic Logos Free for the Taking FREE: Uniforms and logos for 500+ teams spanning 1871-present Great Lakes League: 10 Conferences, 100 Teams Pre-OOTP 23 Custom Cap & Jersey Template v3.0 by Deft and NoPepper (with layers from other various artists) that I use: Caps, Jerseys |
04-21-2017, 08:39 AM | #3 |
Global Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 28,337
|
This thread should be as entertaining as the last one!
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=271847
__________________
|
04-29-2017, 06:31 PM | #4 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,398
|
Yeah. I don't know what he hopes to accomplish with all the name-calling. Obviously he's NOT interested in a serious discussion.
__________________
Cultural icons, gone but not forgotten: David Bowie, Lou Reed, William S. Burroughs, Tristan Tzara, Jack Kerouac, Allen Ginsburg, Jimi Hendrix, John Cage, Johnny Thunders (New York Dolls), Mike Hudson (The Pagans), Joey Ramone (Ramones), Stiv Bators (Dead Boys), Tomata Du Plenty (The Screamers), Joe Strummer (The Clash), Lester Bangs |
04-29-2017, 07:31 PM | #5 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 10,436
|
Quote:
Usually, people who pile on the insults are either not smart enough to argue intelligently and convincingly or are insecure about themselves and their argument. Or both. Incidentally, that article did nothing to change my mind that the taking of performance enhancing drugs, if not sanctioned and available to all players in a league, is cheating.
__________________
- Bru |
|
04-29-2017, 08:48 PM | #6 | ||
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The big smoke
Posts: 15,628
|
Quote:
Prove it! Edit this poster nails it big time Quote:
__________________
Cheers RichW #stopthestupid “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit Last edited by RchW; 04-29-2017 at 08:55 PM. |
||
04-29-2017, 09:02 PM | #7 |
All Star Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Lenexa, KS / Wilson, WY
Posts: 1,354
|
As much as I appreciate the idea of innocence, I'm confident in the post adult age skull growth and visible to anyone with eyeballs bone malformations in for the purpose of this post, Barry Lamar Bonds.
Edit after reading Rich's edit: Just wanted to be sure...I'm saying Bonds for example is a cheater. No more. No less. I wouldnt vote for a cheater to be in the HOF of the game in which he cheated his way to success, no matter how much hard work and talent he had, because it wasn't apparently good enough in the cheater's own eyes and because no one can credibly argue guys like Bonds didn't have cheating enhanced numbers. Think of if this way... how many guys didn't make it because they didn't cheat? Not just at the top of the ladder, but at the bottom. There are cheaters there too. How many clean 4th outfielders couldn't get over the hump or clean middle relievers' bodies couldn't heal their arm fast enough to compete with a few unclean ones? On their backs, I'll rest my principled case for not supporting cheaters in the HOF.
__________________
Last edited by Airdrop01; 04-29-2017 at 09:15 PM. |
04-29-2017, 09:51 PM | #8 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 10,436
|
Those men took those substances surreptitiously, in order to gain an unfair edge on their competition. Whether it can be proven statistically that they were successful in that regard is ultimately irrelevant. In their hearts and minds they did something underhanded that hurt the game's integrity. By their actions and by their intentions, they CHEATED.
__________________
- Bru |
04-29-2017, 11:22 PM | #9 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The big smoke
Posts: 15,628
|
Quote:
__________________
Cheers RichW #stopthestupid “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit |
|
04-29-2017, 11:50 PM | #10 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Inside The Game
Posts: 30,766
|
"...a couple hundred guys didn’t wake up on January 1, 1993 and start popping homer pills — was ignored, as was evidence indicating that the baseball, the strike zone, the style of play, and the double expansion were all to blame."
Umm yeah a couple hundred guys did start taking homer pills but started doing so prior to 1993. I gave up reading this after this paragraph. Many of these guys admitted to taking various PED's, some of which were legal at the time.Still cheating when it was banned by many other sports and illegal to buy them in the US.
__________________
Go today don't wait for tomorrow It isn't promised, all the time you get borrowed Don't live your life for other people Don't bottle your emotions till they crack and fill a couple just sorrows Take your mind and refocus go get a paper write your goals out Throw your middle fingers to all your haters "Stay Strong" |
04-30-2017, 01:01 AM | #11 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Parts unknown
Posts: 6,268
|
Nice presentation & he makes good points.
I still say what good is a rule if there are no consequences for breaking them? Without consequences it is just a waste of ink & paper.
__________________
If a man is guilty 4 what goes on inside of his mind, then let me get the electric chair 4 all my future crimes. - Prince Batdance June 7, 1958 - Apr 21, 2016 |
04-30-2017, 01:54 AM | #12 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The big smoke
Posts: 15,628
|
Quote:
It seems to be a new American way. It's a bad thing.
__________________
Cheers RichW #stopthestupid “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit |
|
04-30-2017, 08:32 AM | #13 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Parts unknown
Posts: 6,268
|
Quote:
__________________
If a man is guilty 4 what goes on inside of his mind, then let me get the electric chair 4 all my future crimes. - Prince Batdance June 7, 1958 - Apr 21, 2016 |
|
04-30-2017, 09:30 AM | #14 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 10,436
|
You know what the real problem here is, don't you? Our standards of behavior have become so low that many of us don't mind that these players cheated. More important is whether their artificially inflated feats thrilled us at the time, filled ballpark seats with fannies, and sold merchandise.
So instead of concentrating on honesty and integrity, we dismiss the issue with arcane analysis trumpeted by people like the opening poster. We say "everybody was doing it, or they should have been" and we drag in other examples. "What about him? He was successful. Ya think he was doin' it too?" We recuse ourselves, saying "Who are we to judge?" because it is EASIER to do that. When there are low or no standards of behavior, the quality of our society suffers. This explains why we were willing to have as president a man who repeatedly demonstrated that he is a lying, racist, misogynist but who got elected anyway. I am tired of this debate, much like I am tired of the first 100 days with another 1,360 to go, if we make it. People get what they deserve, ultimately. If enough of them think Barry Bonds should be in the Hall of Fame despite what I have said above, then so be it. On this very small stage, I indeed have had my say.
__________________
- Bru Last edited by Déjà Bru; 04-30-2017 at 09:31 AM. |
04-30-2017, 10:14 AM | #15 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The big smoke
Posts: 15,628
|
Quote:
You're barking up the wrong tree.
__________________
Cheers RichW #stopthestupid “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit |
|
04-30-2017, 01:39 PM | #16 |
All Star Reserve
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 535
|
I agree with Bru. As a fan it was especially disappointing to me. Bonds was my favorite player until he miraculously gained about 40 pounds of muscle at the age of 38 over the offseason (those numbers based on my bad memory, so sorry in advance if they're not correct). All of a sudden instead of reaching 30+ homers a year he's bashing 60 and 70+. And like was said before, most fans enjoyed every moment of it and the powers that be in MLB turned a blind eye because they were cashing in. But in all honesty who can we say didn't use PED's? Personally (and I believe I said this before somewhere else), it wouldn't surprise me if it came out that greats like Ripken, Maddux, Barry Sanders, Michael Jordan, etc. used PED's. I like to think that they didn't but it wouldn't surprise me if they did just because that is the reality of this generation of sports. Palmeiro didn't have none of the physical signs that he used and still yet he popped on his test. Just my two cents worth.
|
05-01-2017, 02:02 AM | #17 | |
Minors (Triple A)
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 252
|
Quote:
|
|
05-06-2017, 10:05 PM | #18 |
Minors (Single A)
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Colorado USA
Posts: 86
|
The PED thing always makes me laugh. If you want to chastise Bonds and the like for PED's, then you need to do the same to Mantle and Ford.
Those guys gobbled "greenies" back in the day before most games. And don't tell me it's different. They took them because they gave them an advantage. So if you want to get on your high horses about cheating, then you better make sure you include a lot more players than just the ones the media has told you to hate. |
05-07-2017, 12:46 AM | #19 |
Major Leagues
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: UConn Territory
Posts: 464
|
"I have no problem with it. They would have made it there anyways" I don't think ANYONE who cheated in any way should be in the HOF. I am appalled at the attitude some have towards it. No problem with it? Really? So if your child was attempting to get into a really prestigious school, and was working hard his entire life, but cheated on the entrance exam, you would be OK with that? Especially if he was smart enough to do it on his own anyways ? Really? What if your kid DIDN"T make it in because the last spot went to someone ELSE who cheated? You would be fine with it? I doubt it.
"There's no proof steroids helped." Of course they helped. Steroids gave them an advantage in recovery from injuries and in stamina, to name 2 areas where it helped.. So many wouldn't take anything that did nothing for them. It's a stupid argument. "They didn't fail any drug tests." Drug tests are a joke. You think someone making MILLIONS can't figure out a way to beat a $5 drug test? You don't think they can afford drugs that DON'T show up in todays blood or urine tests? They need to come up with tougher tests and they need to test frequently, and especially by surprise. The biggest issue though is the punishment. Suspension? So what. When utility players are making millions a year, the risk is well worth it. $30 million dollars a year for high end pitchers and players are here already. Failing a test should void the contract. League minimum salary begins and stays for the ENTIRE length of the contract you have. Fail again, lifetime ban. Of course, stringent testing methods along with strict tests should be used to avoid false positives. A re-test would be automatic, with the SAME original blood sample saved so another test can be performed, along with a new test to make sure BOTH tests match. They do, bye-bye. The only way to eradicate it is to make it not worth it if you get caught. Right now, it's well worth the risk.
__________________
We satisfy our endless needs & justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny, & in the name of God. Don Henley |
05-07-2017, 12:46 AM | #20 |
Major Leagues
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: UConn Territory
Posts: 464
|
Edit: Double post. Don't know why. Hit respond only once.
__________________
We satisfy our endless needs & justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny, & in the name of God. Don Henley Last edited by psd; 05-07-2017 at 12:47 AM. |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | |
|
|