Anniversary: Immaculate Reception

[BaseballMan]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

I'm focusing on one thing because that is the only thing I object to.

And you didn't say Houston was worthy. I QUOTED you. You are like Charles Barkley claiming he was misquoted in his autobiography in denying what was said. If you "misspoke" fine. It happens to all of us. But saying "they never should have made it" implies it was a fluke or a stroke of luck. And IMO, it was far from it.

I didn't say they were worthy because i was never talking about them being worthy. Saying a team should never have made it can be a stroke of luck or it can be that they just weren't good enough but it doesn't mean they werent worthy.

To be honest though they probably were a bit lucky. Nothing wrong with that. Hell if the Raiders make it to the playoffs this year you can say they were a little bit lucky to have all those games go their way but i'd be crazy to think they are good enough to make it to the AFC championship game.
Though i hope they prove me wrong.

But being lucky doesn't mean the Oilers werent a good team. They just were never good enough to get past Miami, Oakland and Pittsburgh in the playoffs. So not having two of those teams as good as they had been in years past helped. I don't see how you could say it didn't.
Beating the chargers was one thing. Beating the 70's Raiders and then the Steelers was harder accomplishment. The 77 Broncos did a great job but throwing in the Cowboys was just too much.

I explained why i didn't think they were good enough to beat the steelers.
Sorry but those Oilers teams were good but not great. It would have taken a miracle to beat all three.
You can spin it any way you want but the fact is they failed.
How many AFC championships did the Oilers win?
I believe that would be zero.
Maybe i should have said the Oilers would have never have made it to the super bowl but that would have been just stating the obvious.
If they had least made it to one super bowl during that time then i could maybe see them beating the steelers but that would have been very tough to do.
Those Oilers teams were good but a bit overrated.

[Cobra Mgr]

They made the AFC title game 2 yrs in a row because of luck. Gotcha.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

Yeah i kinda like both eras but if you weren't a fan of the top teams in the 70's it kinda sucked. But sometimes there were surprises like the 81 49ers.

There were a lot of surprise teams, not just the 49ers. The Bengals were 4-12 the year before that season. The Bucs in '79. The Colts and Patriots had good teams. What is the advantage of this era? That your crap team makes the playoffs at 8-8? It still sucks for fans that are not for the Patriots, who have been in 9 Super Bowls in the last 18 years.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

I didn't say they were worthy because i was never talking about them being worthy. Saying a team should never have made it can be a stroke of luck or it can be that they just weren't good enough but it doesn't mean they werent worthy.

To be honest though they probably were a bit lucky. Nothing wrong with that. Hell if the Raiders make it to the playoffs this year you can say they were a little bit lucky to have all those games go their way but i'd be crazy to think they are good enough to make it to the AFC championship game.
Though i hope they prove me wrong.

But being lucky doesn't mean the Oilers werent a good team. They just were never good enough to get past Miami, Oakland and Pittsburgh in the playoffs. So not having two of those teams as good as they had been in years past helped. I don't see how you could say it didn't.
Beating the chargers was one thing. Beating the 70's Raiders and then the Steelers was harder accomplishment. The 77 Broncos did a great job but throwing in the Cowboys was just too much.

I explained why i didn't think they were good enough to beat the steelers.
Sorry but those Oilers teams were good but not great. It would have taken a miracle to beat all three.
You can spin it any way you want but the fact is they failed.
How many AFC championships did the Oilers win?
I believe that would be zero.
Maybe i should have said the Oilers would have never have made it to the super bowl but that would have been just stating the obvious.
If they had least made it to one super bowl during that time then i could maybe see them beating the steelers but that would have been very tough to do.
Those Oilers teams were good but a bit overrated.

I'm not even sure what you guys are arguing about. I don't think anyone thought the Oilers would beat the Steelers in the playoffs, no one. Even if they gave Renfro that TD they still lose. They were the discount version of the Dallas Cowboys. And the Cowboys never beat that Steelers team in regular season or the Super Bowl.

[BaseballMan]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

They made the AFC title game 2 yrs in a row because of luck. Gotcha.

What is it with all the memes? I can read.
Sorry its just annoying when you are having a conversation.

Yes luck had a part in them making it to the AFC championship.
Key word is part. Why you want to insist that i was saying they were JUST a lucky team i have no idea.
As i also said they didn't have the depth, depended too much on Campbell, and Pastorini was not as good as the other starting qbs. Yes they were good enough to make the playoffs but would most likely never have got to the AFC championship when those other three were at their best.
Why do you seem to think a team can't benefit off some breaks or good luck.
Hell if the Raiders make it to the playoffs and beat anybody other than the Patriots, Ravens, Chiefs before the AFC championship game id say they had a little bit of luck but i wouldn't say they made it to the AFC championship on luck alone. Though i don't think i will have to worry about that but i would love to be wrong. Them making it to the AFC championship that is.

The Oilers were a good team. They were not a great team.
They were outscored 88-25 in 3 playoff losses between 1978-1980.
That's not a sign of a team that should be an AFC championship team.
Yes they beat the steelers in the regular season but how good were the other teams on their schedule? The bears were suppose to be awesome this year but i was skeptical because of the easy schedule they had last year.
The Oilers did not make it to the AFC championship based on luck alone but yes luck did play a part. If you want to take it that i was saying they made it to afc championship based on luck alone thats your choice.
But im telling you that they were good enough to beat the teams they did but they also had some luck in not having to play those other teams.

[BaseballMan]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

There were a lot of surprise teams, not just the 49ers. The Bengals were 4-12 the year before that season. The Bucs in '79. The Colts and Patriots had good teams. What is the advantage of this era? That your crap team makes the playoffs at 8-8? It still sucks for fans that are not for the Patriots, who have been in 9 Super Bowls in the last 18 years.

Yeah i still remember the 49ers stopping the bengals on 4 downs at the goal line. The 49ers, redskins and eagles caught the cowboys at the right time.
They caught the cowboys with Danny White. White was a great qb for the cowboys system. He might have beat some lesser opponents but i never really believed he would take the cowboys to the super bowl.
But to be fair i didn't think Montana and the 49ers would beat the cowboys in the playoffs. That 1981 nfc title game i had no idea who would win.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

I'm not even sure what you guys are arguing about. I don't think anyone thought the Oilers would beat the Steelers in the playoffs, no one. Even if they gave Renfro that TD they still lose. They were the discount version of the Dallas Cowboys. And the Cowboys never beat that Steelers team in regular season or the Super Bowl.

Not arguing. I have a problem with the statement the Oilers weren't supposed to be there. Simple. I don't see how their presence could be flukish or luck or unworthy or unearned or unexpected. I have never taken issue with anyone thinking the Oilers had no shot to win, even though I disagree. That is a legit opinion. I think the belief the team with the 2nd best record, who had beaten the Steelers that season, who had reached the finals the previous season was a Cinderella story should be challenged. To a reasonable degree.

[BaseballMan]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Not arguing. I have a problem with the statement the Oilers weren't supposed to be there. Simple. I don't see how their presence could be flukish or luck or unworthy or unearned or unexpected. I have never taken issue with anyone thinking the Oilers had no shot to win, even though I disagree. That is a legit opinion. I think the belief the team with the 2nd best record, who had beaten the Steelers that season, who had reached the finals the previous season was a Cinderella story should be challenged. To a reasonable degree.

And yet in the playoffs they were never much of a challenge for the steelers. In 1978 they beat a lot of teams at.500 or below. Sure they beat the dolphins and steelers in the regular season but they werent as good as other playoff teams of that era. Doesn't mean they were a fluke. You play the teams you are scheduled to play.
You really had 6 great teams in the 70s. The Raiders, Steelers, Dolphins, Cowboys, Vikings and Rams.
Thats just the way it was. So i dont think its a stretch to say the oilers probably should have never made it as far as they did. I don't think the oilers were a Cinderella story but that wouldn't have made them a fluke. The 1981 49ers were a Cinderella story and they were not a fluke. Would they have been able to win when the Cowboys, Rams and Vikings were at the top i don't know but i think they would have done better than the Oilers because of a better qb and a better coach.

Maybe the Oilers would have beat all three in the playoffs but all i know is what they did do. They beat the dolphins and practically got blown out in 3 playoff losses. Sometimes teams make it farther than they should have. They deserve the credit for making it that far but sometimes a team isnt as good as their record.
I just don't think those oilers teams were as good as you think they were.
So i'll leave it at that so the thread can get back to the original topic.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

Yeah i still remember the 49ers stopping the bengals on 4 downs at the goal line. The 49ers, redskins and eagles caught the cowboys at the right time.
They caught the cowboys with Danny White. White was a great qb for the cowboys system. He might have beat some lesser opponents but i never really believed he would take the cowboys to the super bowl.
But to be fair i didn't think Montana and the 49ers would beat the cowboys in the playoffs. That 1981 nfc title game i had no idea who would win.

It wasn't just Danny White. Similar to the Steelers, the Cowboys of the 80s were in decline. I was surprised the Cowboys kept that game close against the 49ers since they destroyed the 'boys by like 30 points in the regular season. But hey, dumb gamblers had them favored to win all 3.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by swoboda

1. It was incredible to watch on live TV while it happened.
2. Couldn't believe that last Raider closing in on Franco on the sideline couldn't catch him

Watching it on TV I was certain Harris was going to be pushed and get a foot out of bounds.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Watching it on TV I was certain Harris was going to be pushed and get a foot out of bounds.

There would still be time on the clock.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

There would still be time on the clock.

Are you sure? Gowdy said "he grabbed it with five seconds to go and scores"

Fleming says something similar. "Harris is going...5 seconds left on the clock. Franco Harris pulled in the football,"

Meanwhile the Raider announcer said "And Bradshaw's pass is.... deflected off Frenchy Fuqua. Franco Harris picks it up on the first bounce and runs it into the end zone.

"The Steelers are celebrating in the end zone... but that's going to be called back as a double touch by the offense or Franco catching it on a bounce.

"They could also call the play back for a clip on Villapiano by McMakin but I don't see a flag yet... the only thing the officials have done is signal touchdown."

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Brad K

Are you sure? Gowdy said "he grabbed it with five seconds to go and scores"

He probably just misspoke. Because I know for sure there was .22 seconds in the game when the ball was snapped. No way 17 seconds elapses between the snap and Franco getting it. There was probably 5 seconds to go in the game after he scored.

[Brad K]

Yes on the 22 seconds. They show the clock in one of the documentaries.

Looking at the time on the youtube video the snap happens almost immediate at the start and Harris scores at 16 seconds. That leaves 6 seconds so that's close enough to five that Fleming and Gowdy were saying Harris scored with five seconds to go, despite them not exactly saying that.

We can forgive them for not making it clear, understandable given the excitement of broadcasting what is officially the greatest play in NFL history.

[Brad K]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

There would still be time on the clock.

I'm sure I worried about out of bounds because I thought time was out. While I certainly would have questioned Bradshaw's ability to make a one chance play from the 5 or 10 happen, all they needed was a field goal and I had plenty of confidence in Gerela

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Brad K

I'm sure I worried about out of bounds because I thought time was out. While I certainly would have questioned Bradshaw's ability to make a one chance play from the 5 or 10 happen, all they needed was a field goal and I had plenty of confidence in Gerela

Yeah I am sure they would have went FG there if that happened. But was he a straight on kicker? Those kickers can literally miss from anywhere.

I never understood why people kicked like that. That's putting yourself at a disadvantage.

But anyway, that play has to be the greatest play in NFL history. At the moment I can't think of a better one considering the situation.