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Old 11-16-2019, 07:07 PM   #601
Cobra Mgr
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Taking responsibility for ones actions is always a good thing. I do think you are viewing my posts as an attempt to exonerate Garrett. That is not the case. My point is that football is a violent game played by large men who are trained to be aggressive. As long as the money is so attractive to the league, the owners and the players there will be incidents such as Garrett's. Ultimately there will be an on field incident that will make society examine the nature of the game and then have to decide whether the money is worth the danger to the participants. One brief moment of truth in advertising; I sit in front of the TV most Saturdays and Sundays watching a game I love. Sometimes I am conflicted, however I probably will not stop watching.
I didn't take your take as exoneration. I did take it as a complication of the cause. If you send a recipe for chocolate cake to 20 posters up here, and I'm the only one who ends up up with a chocolate pie, is the cause the recipe or the cook? Somewhere along the line, I made the mistake. It wasn't you or the recipe. The problem is solely me. Now, if we get multiple players swinging helmets at each other, then we can blame the football culture.
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Old 11-16-2019, 07:13 PM   #602
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Originally Posted by Ragnar View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4XHIS4pWQQ

at the 42 second mark.

I don't know why people keep saying this. Lyle Alzado did something similar to a player back in '82.
Thanks. But we know what was behind that. So again, that is an individual's choice that is the problem. Not the culture. Alzado was known to be a lunatic even by Raiders steroid standards.

Edit: Next vid after that one was a Jack Lambert video. That was one mean son of a gun. No one epitomizes professional football like a maniacal middle linebacker. Butkus, Bednarik, Singletary, Lewis, Lambert...saying those names sounds the same as hearing NFL.
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Last edited by Cobra Mgr; 11-16-2019 at 07:38 PM.
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Old 11-16-2019, 07:22 PM   #603
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I didn't take your take as exoneration. I did take it as a complication of the cause. If you send a recipe for chocolate cake to 20 posters up here, and I'm the only one who ends up up with a chocolate pie, is the cause the recipe or the cook? Somewhere along the line, I made the mistake. It wasn't you or the recipe. The problem is solely me. Now, if we get multiple players swinging helmets at each other, then we can blame the football culture.
I want to thank you for an intelligent and convivial conversation. For the last decade and a half I have contributed regularly in OTD. My interaction with you was a treat. I need to post here more often.
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Old 11-16-2019, 07:33 PM   #604
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I want to thank you for an intelligent and convivial conversation. For the last decade and a half I have contributed regularly in OTD. My interaction with you was a treat. I need to post here more often.
Back @ U

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Old 11-16-2019, 08:17 PM   #605
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Edit: Next vid after that one was a Jack Lambert video. That was one mean son of a gun. No one epitomizes professional football like a maniacal middle linebacker. Butkus, Bednarik, Singletary, Lewis, Lambert...saying those names sounds the same as hearing NFL.
As a Cowboys fan I know that freak of nature all too well. Him, along with a few other players on that ridiculous Steelers team is the reason the Cowboys never beat that particular team. They put up a good fight here and there, but when you have monsters on the other side of the ball you're bound to lose in the end. But yeah, I like the other LBs you mentioned
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Old 11-16-2019, 10:11 PM   #606
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Football is the closest thing to war that is offered as popular entertainment. Players are taught to be as violent as possible during the game and devastating injuries are part of the game. Myles was simply doing what he was trained to do and took it too far. Perhaps the issue isn't whether he acted like a criminal, but instead whether violence is so ingrained in the game that we should be surprised this kind of thing doesn't happen more often. I am not defending the perpetrator, instead I am blasting the fact that so many of us cheer when someone is knocked to kingdom come. The game of football is often beautiful to watch, but as the players become larger and even more violent we will eventually progress from paralyzed players to dead ones
The bold is completely not true. Football players are taught to use violence within a set of boundaries. That is completely different than being as violent as possible. As violent as possible kills people. Using violence within a set of boundaries allows for controlled violence, checked violence. That's why there are penalties against excessive violence. Myles went way beyond what he has been trained to do and that's why the NFL community almost unanimously called him out for it immediately. The controlled violence of the NFL should not lead anyone to acts of assault. It's on the individual and only on the individual who commits that act that blame should fall.
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Old 11-16-2019, 10:43 PM   #607
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The league let Michael Vick play again even after abusing animals for sport. What does this say about their priorities?
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Old 11-16-2019, 10:52 PM   #608
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People are actually surprised Mason Rudolph didn't get a suspension. Some are even expecting it to come down.
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Old 11-17-2019, 12:29 AM   #609
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People are actually surprised Mason Rudolph didn't get a suspension. Some are even expecting it to come down.
That confuses me in all of this as I've heard people talk about the aftermath. As I said earlier, I didn't watch the game. How in the world is Rudolph to blame for "letting" himself get tackled, "handing" Garrett his helmet, and then putting his noggin' in harm's way as Myles attempted to put his helmet back on his head?
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Old 11-17-2019, 01:34 AM   #610
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That confuses me in all of this as I've heard people talk about the aftermath. As I said earlier, I didn't watch the game. How in the world is Rudolph to blame for "letting" himself get tackled, "handing" Garrett his helmet, and then putting his noggin' in harm's way as Myles attempted to put his helmet back on his head?
It's misguided, but I'll try to explain.

There are many people that think Mason started it. He was retaliating after Myles took him down by trying to rip his helmet off first. He also pushed off against Myles groin area after the fact. He then went after Garrett after they both got up. They think Garrett is responsible for the altercation.

To be clear, I don't think Mason should be suspended. But there are people out there that think "if he didn't do this, then he wouldn't have done that" kind of mentality. It doesn't work that way. You're responsible for your own actions, not someone else's. You can't punish someone based on what they did because of what you did. That's chaos.

Punish Mason as if Myles didn't swing the helmet. What would he get? Nothing.
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Old 11-17-2019, 02:29 AM   #611
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It's misguided, but I'll try to explain.

There are many people that think Mason started it. He was retaliating after Myles took him down by trying to rip his helmet off first. He also pushed off against Myles groin area after the fact. He then went after Garrett after they both got up. They think Garrett is responsible for the altercation.
I didn't see it like that. I just saw Garrett tackle him and for some reason the situation escalated.
Quote:
To be clear, I don't think Mason should be suspended. But there are people out there that think "if he didn't do this, then he wouldn't have done that" kind of mentality. It doesn't work that way. You're responsible for your own actions, not someone else's. You can't punish someone based on what they did because of what you did. That's chaos.

Punish Mason as if Myles didn't swing the helmet. What would he get? Nothing.
That's how I see it.
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Old 11-17-2019, 07:30 AM   #612
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I don't think you can suspend Rudolph no matter what you find him guilty of, Ogunjobi was suspended 1 game for something that was far worse that anything you could find Rudolph guilty of. Suspend him for 2 quarters? One thing though it's boosted the viewing figures when they play the rematch in a couple weeks.

Not seen much if anything on Kaepernick on here, people tired of him and the story?
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Old 11-17-2019, 09:28 AM   #613
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Not seen much if anything on Kaepernick on here, people tired of him and the story?
I haven't brought it up because it is so controversial. If you want a bunch of idiocy & misinformation, bring up Kap's name. I ain't got time for all that. The supporters of both sides are so polarized that there is no way to keep the convo civil and accurate.
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Old 11-17-2019, 09:59 AM   #614
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I haven't brought it up because it is so controversial. If you want a bunch of idiocy & misinformation, bring up Kap's name. I ain't got time for all that. The supporters of both sides are so polarized that there is no way to keep the convo civil and accurate.
Agree, I'll reword it. Take away the knee and such, maybe even the workout. Do people think he could return to the NFL if given the chance, I've never heard of someone who's took that long of a sport and returned and looked like they never missed a day.
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Old 11-17-2019, 12:59 PM   #615
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The most important question of course is, are the Browns going to make the playoffs?
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Old 11-17-2019, 01:30 PM   #616
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Agree, I'll reword it. Take away the knee and such, maybe even the workout. Do people think he could return to the NFL if given the chance, I've never heard of someone who's took that long of a sport and returned and looked like they never missed a day.
I never say never. You look around the NFL you see more QB's that look like him skill wise. The "experts" can criticize Kap & Cam's game all they want. But they were the future when they entered the league. So I think there are more offenses that know how to call plays for Kap's skill set and wouldn't have the prejudicial idea that the offense needs to be "dumbed down" for him.
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Old 11-17-2019, 01:30 PM   #617
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I don't think you can suspend Rudolph no matter what you find him guilty of, Ogunjobi was suspended 1 game for something that was far worse that anything you could find Rudolph guilty of. Suspend him for 2 quarters? One thing though it's boosted the viewing figures when they play the rematch in a couple weeks.
Mason didn't like the way Myles dropped him, clearly. So he started grabbing at his facemask. The ref could have thrown a flag for both actions but chose not to. Without the helmet swing I think the worst both would get is tossed from the game.

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Agree, I'll reword it. Take away the knee and such, maybe even the workout. Do people think he could return to the NFL if given the chance, I've never heard of someone who's took that long of a sport and returned and looked like they never missed a day.
That's the thing, three years removed from the game. But if he gets a good supporting cast and adjusts to the speed, why not? But I don't see any team giving more than a 1 year deal at or close to league minimum.

We're talking all else aside, just football. Once he lost his supporting cast he looked terrible. So it's not like a team looking to improve would have any use for him. Where would that leave him? As a viable backup for a decent team.

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The most important question of course is, are the Browns going to make the playoffs?
That's a question that has been giving sleepless nights for weeks now, I'm glad you brought that up.

The Browns are currently 4-6. I think they beat the Bengals twice and Miami. They play the Ravens again, and at Pitt and at Arizona. Those three games won't be easy.

I think if they beat Pitt, Cinci twice, and Miami, they have a shot at the playoffs. Lose to any one of those teams and it's over.
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Old 11-17-2019, 06:22 PM   #618
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Time 4 the Panthers to sink the Riverboat
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Old 11-17-2019, 06:34 PM   #619
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So we all know it has been established that PI has to be super obvious for it to be reversed. But how super does obvious need to be?
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Old 11-17-2019, 06:59 PM   #620
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So we all know it has been established that PI has to be super obvious for it to be reversed. But how super does obvious need to be?
Not 100% but wasnt one overturned in the Arizona game but still think the coaches are around 6% in overturning calls.

On another note, do the NFL target certain players fine wise, reason I ask is Beckham was fined for wearing his pants too short, now I know it's too soon to know but at least 3 Bengals players are doing the same, be interesting to see if their fined.
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