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Old 09-21-2019, 01:48 PM   #21
dancariaz
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I think your story is very believable because it's done in similar ways in other games: you basically trade your way up. I've done it myself in Rocket League and CS:GO in the past and have lots of respect for other people doing it.

I'd imagine it's a lot harder in PT though because the player base is a lot smaller resulting in less action on the AH. I definitely plan to do something similar in PT next year, my pack only team was only fun as long as I was able to regularly upgrade my team.
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Old 09-21-2019, 02:11 PM   #22
X3NEIZE
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Sorry i'm skeptical, but there's no way I'm buying that's a FTP... not that you should care anyways
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Old 09-21-2019, 02:26 PM   #23
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Sorry i'm skeptical, but there's no way I'm buying that's a FTP... not that you should care anyways
Well, he offered to have a developer check it. If he is not FTP then he is bluffing because he "knows" for some reason, why the developers would not post one way or the other.
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Old 09-21-2019, 02:40 PM   #24
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Well, he offered to have a developer check it. If he is not FTP then he is bluffing because he "knows" for some reason, why the developers would not post one way or the other.
I think it is a pretty safe bet that the developers would not get involved in this thread one way or another. Unless of course, they are anxious to prove that FTP players can compete in Perfect Leagues without training wheels.
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Old 09-21-2019, 02:50 PM   #25
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That's pretty impressive. Definitely having a strategy to take advantage of the underpricing of collections assets is a good and almost obvious way to make PP, if you're willing to put in the time. Getting and flipping huge demand cards like 91 Hank or other similar historical diamonds at huge discounts is pretty obviously a home run, it's just difficult to pull off and needing some serious dedication to do so. But, utimately there are just not a large enough fraction of the already-small active playerbase who has the opportunity to monitor the AH neurotically during day hours, so it's there for you if you're willing and able to put in the time.

The one thing that surprised me here is the net loss of money on collections; surely, someone who is this market savvy has made ~1M PP from all the existing collections value sources, which is absolutely there for the taking. It also seems like there was a huge market fluctuation during the initial release of collections that you took advantage of because of your relative experience in assessing true market value.

I think that's the key for F2P: Either have a really intelligent market strategy based on LIVE players (like those players who invested in all the LIVE card fluctuations and made a killing), or historicals (like you've shown here), or have a truly advanced understanding of game mechanics/player performance, or some combination.

I disagree that this is a market game first, baseball game second. Maybe for you personally, or for a primarily one-team player, or for those with the ability to monitor the market in that way, but it's just one aspect of the F2P player life. For example, my current strategy is to try to get as many teams to win a PL title as I can as FTP, all with distinct park factor sliders. I don't think historical diamond flipping or collections speculation is necessarily an available option when working on several teams under low-ish time commitment; at some point, under this play objective, you need to know how to build a good baseball team under the constraints of different parks. So the game is what you make of it.
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Old 09-21-2019, 03:12 PM   #26
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This is way more believable then "I put in [very little money] and suddenly my team is elite". If you were to spend the last 25 weeks building a team on $0, what he is saying is the only way to do it without relying on pack luck. And the progression looks waaaay more legit than that last $50 guy.
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Old 09-21-2019, 03:45 PM   #27
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Ive said multiple times that a "whale" team is possible for free/minimal investment a couple months in with heavy auction house play
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Old 09-21-2019, 03:49 PM   #28
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People who are skeptical come from the mindset of checking the auction house just when they get home from work and maybe again before bed. obviously it is not happening that way
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Old 09-21-2019, 04:18 PM   #29
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Well, I guess that destroys the need to "balance" the game. Obviously, free-to-play players CAN compete with the whales. No need to have separate leagues, super leagues, or any of that. The ftp people just need to be smarter and work a little.
There's a lot I can say about this. It would be hard for many people to do what I do, because it would draw from a similar pool of available PP. But even in that case, I think that most sellers can do better than they're doing. Obviously, spending money guarantees results, and that will always be the easiest way to compete.

Can FTP compete with whales? Sure, but you're going to have to harpoon some whales and ride them to the top.
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Old 09-21-2019, 04:20 PM   #30
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I think your story is very believable because it's done in similar ways in other games: you basically trade your way up. I've done it myself in Rocket League and CS:GO in the past and have lots of respect for other people doing it.

I'd imagine it's a lot harder in PT though because the player base is a lot smaller resulting in less action on the AH. I definitely plan to do something similar in PT next year, my pack only team was only fun as long as I was able to regularly upgrade my team.
Thanks! There's more action than you might think, even with a smaller player base. But yes, I would love to see activity on the level of a FIFA or something.
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Old 09-21-2019, 04:22 PM   #31
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Sorry i'm skeptical, but there's no way I'm buying that's a FTP... not that you should care anyways
Haha, I knew this would be provocative—that's part of the reason I went ahead with it. Like I said, I totally understand anyone being skeptical. I'll do my best to provide proof.

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Well, he offered to have a developer check it. If he is not FTP then he is bluffing because he "knows" for some reason, why the developers would not post one way or the other.
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I think it is a pretty safe bet that the developers would not get involved in this thread one way or another. Unless of course, they are anxious to prove that FTP players can compete in Perfect Leagues without training wheels.
I assume that if you buy PP, it would show up in your transaction history, right? If that's true, making the video of my transaction history should put this to rest.
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Old 09-21-2019, 04:25 PM   #32
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It would be hard for many people to do what I do, because it would draw from a similar pool of available PP.
I don't see why it would be any harder for someone else than it was for you.
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Old 09-21-2019, 04:30 PM   #33
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I don't see why it would be any harder for someone else than it was for you.
Well, by his own admission, he does have a ton of time to do this. Many of us can’t be on the AH while at work.
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Old 09-21-2019, 04:31 PM   #34
ElementalKnight
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That's pretty impressive. Definitely having a strategy to take advantage of the underpricing of collections assets is a good and almost obvious way to make PP, if you're willing to put in the time. Getting and flipping huge demand cards like 91 Hank or other similar historical diamonds at huge discounts is pretty obviously a home run, it's just difficult to pull off and needing some serious dedication to do so. But, utimately there are just not a large enough fraction of the already-small active playerbase who has the opportunity to monitor the AH neurotically during day hours, so it's there for you if you're willing and able to put in the time.

The one thing that surprised me here is the net loss of money on collections; surely, someone who is this market savvy has made ~1M PP from all the existing collections value sources, which is absolutely there for the taking. It also seems like there was a huge market fluctuation during the initial release of collections that you took advantage of because of your relative experience in assessing true market value.

I think that's the key for F2P: Either have a really intelligent market strategy based on LIVE players (like those players who invested in all the LIVE card fluctuations and made a killing), or historicals (like you've shown here), or have a truly advanced understanding of game mechanics/player performance, or some combination.

I disagree that this is a market game first, baseball game second. Maybe for you personally, or for a primarily one-team player, or for those with the ability to monitor the market in that way, but it's just one aspect of the F2P player life. For example, my current strategy is to try to get as many teams to win a PL title as I can as FTP, all with distinct park factor sliders. I don't think historical diamond flipping or collections speculation is necessarily an available option when working on several teams under low-ish time commitment; at some point, under this play objective, you need to know how to build a good baseball team under the constraints of different parks. So the game is what you make of it.
Lots to say here. I appreciate the thoughts. Part of the reason I don't think of what I do as time consuming is that that's just what my brain does. The normal fluttering of my attention span I just redirect toward the auction house while I work. I totally recognize that for most people, this would be a gargantuan time sink / distraction.

I'm not sure what you're referring to by the net loss on collections. It's definitely been a massive net gain for me. It's just that completing collections obviously locks money away, and the rewards for completing the collections that aren't players I want aren't very large. But like you said, I made an absolute killing on the first wave of collections. I was aggressive about flipping White Sox collection pieces.

About the skill of assessing true market value, one thing I learned from other games is that—and, again, this is my perspective—there is no such thing in a game like this as a fair price. There is only what people will pay or will not pay. Sellers grossly underestimate what buyers will pay to get the players they want. I sold two Wilbur Wood cards for almost 70k each. Most people would not have dared to list a gold that high.

And you're totally right, the game is what you make of it. I phrased it the way I did to emphasize that if your sole goal is putting together a competitive team, amassing perfect points and playing the market is something you can and ideally should be doing often. But I totally respect however people choose to enjoy this game. Obviously, market stuff is fun for me. That's part of why this has worked out this way.
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Old 09-21-2019, 04:34 PM   #35
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This is way more believable then "I put in [very little money] and suddenly my team is elite". If you were to spend the last 25 weeks building a team on $0, what he is saying is the only way to do it without relying on pack luck. And the progression looks waaaay more legit than that last $50 guy.
I know people enjoy packs, and that's totally cool. But packs are, and have basically always been, a negative EV enterprise. They're designed to be that way. There is a point at which players would be so scarce that that wouldn't be true, but I don't think we've ever seen it. You can get rich on pack luck. You can guarantee a better PP outcome most of the time by avoiding it altogether.
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Old 09-21-2019, 04:38 PM   #36
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I don't see why it would be any harder for someone else than it was for you.
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Well, by his own admission, he does have a ton of time to do this. Many of us can’t be on the AH while at work.
I meant this a different way, though it is true that my time is more flexible than most people. My brain works weirdly. This is a place where it helps.

What I meant by saying it would be harder for more people to do this was that there is only so much surplus value on the auction house. The more people that are extracting it, the less any one individual person will get. If 100 people did what I did, we'd all make some free PP, but we wouldn't make as much as if a smaller group were extracting that value.

That said, and this should be clear, there's plenty more value out there in the market than what I've zeroed in on. It's a matter of coming up with the right strategy for recognizing it and obtaining it.
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Old 09-21-2019, 04:43 PM   #37
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Well, by his own admission, he does have a ton of time to do this. Many of us can’t be on the AH while at work.
Many retired people playing this game, and he did it while working.
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Old 09-21-2019, 05:20 PM   #38
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This is basic FTP strategy, just on overdrive. My team-building process has been somewhat similar, yet on a MUCH smaller scale and MUCH slower. Unlike you, I never had a real thought-out strategy or even a specific goal. It took me until 2030 just to get past silver level, but then all of a sudden I had enough PP to actually do a little bit of AH card flipping, and now I've been able to steadily complete positive EV missions to re-sell or add to my team.

You know what they say, "you gotta spend money to make money." For an FTP player, the key problem with that is you gotta have money to spend money. That's why the snowball effect is so powerful.
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Old 09-21-2019, 05:29 PM   #39
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Many retired people playing this game, and he did it while working.
I sure hope they still have this game when I retire. I keep joking with my gf how I wish I could retire already and just play this game and read all day.
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Old 09-21-2019, 06:01 PM   #40
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I definitely give a developer permission to chime in on the no money claim.

I'm experienced with markets, and PT 19 was a good learning experience for me. I wasn't as successful there, though I still did create a team that got to Perfect and was never relegated. I make mistakes, but they tend to be small and correctable.

Example: I bought Kluber for 50k thinking he was Averill. I sold him for 43,199 after tax. But I don't make mistakes like that often.

As for reading the market, I disagree. I think there are lots of things that have been systematically underpriced relative to what people will pay for them. Sellers seem to feel bound by the last 7 price. Buyers are not, especially whales. That was one of the big lessons I took away from PT 19.

As for live diamonds, it wasn't a part of my strategy at all. I assumed people who followed MLB more actively would be far better at speculating than I would be. There's plenty of money to be made there, but that was work I didn't want to do.

I should say this explicity: the ADHD and frequent tabbing make me a particularly good sniper of bad auctions. That is low-risk and lucrative. As to whether that's time consuming, again, that's open to discussion. While sitting here, I picked up Piersall for 4,200. He had been up for 5 minutes.

One more addition: When the devs posted data about how to use the AH search effectively, I took it to heart. I try to craft efficient searches. I don't want to post my searches here, given the fact that it would basically dissipate my income source, but I think searching efficiently is an undervalued skill.
It is a good point that each of our lives are at least as different as our teams, so I'm not too quick at all to say "impossible!" or such, it's like Ozzie Smith telling Alex Rodriguez that he can't hit 30 home runs in one season as a shortstop (or Alex Rodriguez telling Ozzie Smith that he can), speaking a different language than someone, speaking the same language but not being able to communicate, how good you are at math, with numbers, but especially in which ways...hard to articulate what I'm trying to put across but there are all types of people playing the game.
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