Never thought I'd see the day

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by dkgo

Cheating is being punished the way it always has been. You get banned from the game. That just has much higher stakes for some people.

People keep talking as if he is ten years old. He is 18. Teenagers are more in-tune to the online world than adults who think they always know best are.

Maybe we shouldn't let people in their 20s play football because it's so high stakes and stressful that Josh Gordon can't help but keep doing drugs.

Not sure whether this is in response to what I just posted or we crossed paths simultaneously. If it's not in response, I encourage you to read what I said and see if it changes your opinion at all.

I definitely agree with your cheating and punishment comment; that's a part of growing up (if supervised properly) from pre-kindergarten days.

This is what I respectfully take issue with: "He is 18. Teenagers are more in-tune to the online world than adults who think they always know best are." 18 is not an adult in my book. Does that shock you?

18 is old enough to know right from wrong; 18 is old enough to figure out a smartphone in minutes; 18 is old enough to work at a job and earn money; 18 is old enough to go to college. 18 is not old enough to handle adult situations because 18 lacks the wisdom and emotional maturity to do so. When 18 (and younger) is called upon to do so due to adverse circumstances or parental neglect, it is unfortunate.

People in their 20's should be allowed to play football, sure. (Putting aside the concussions issue, which is another debate.) I assume you mean college football. But here's where we will differ again: Scholastic sports should be a minor adjunct to the college experience. Kids should not be going to college just to play sports, nor should it be the all-encompassing activity that it has become. Nor should they be paid, which is going to open up another can of worms.

Simply said, young folks don't become adults until they are in their early 20's at the very least. Some of them later than that, and some never at all. People who are not adults should not be placed in adult situations because they are not equipped for them.

There, I believe I've shocked people enough with my old-fashioned thinking. I bid you all good day.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by dkgo

Not gonna bother reading the whole thread but expecting it's just more hilarity where adults who watch other adults play sports for millions of dollars somehow think it is absurd that kids like to watch other kids play video games.

It's a lot of this
With some "bUt SpOrTs ArE rEaL" thrown in.

Successful internet figures put a TON of work into it. You know how many people think "wow I can make money playing video games I'm gonna do it"? There is no barrier to entry at all, yet a mere hundreds of people are truly successful out of everyone thinking they can do it.

Also this
But this is part of the dangerous part.

At important developmental stages, when most of us were trying to figure out who we c were, these people are going through that with the added pressure of thousands, tens of thousands, millions (I don't know) watching and money, fame and power being on the line.

Difficult waters to navigate

[dkgo]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Not sure whether this is in response to what I just posted or we crossed paths simultaneously. If it's not in response, I encourage you to read what I said and see if it changes your opinion at all.

I definitely agree with your cheating and punishment comment; that's a part of growing up (if supervised properly) from pre-kindergarten days.

This is what I respectfully take issue with: "He is 18. Teenagers are more in-tune to the online world than adults who think they always know best are." 18 is not an adult in my book. Does that shock you?

18 is old enough to know right from wrong; 18 is old enough to figure out a smartphone in minutes; 18 is old enough to work at a job and earn money; 18 is old enough to go to college. 18 is not old enough to handle adult situations because 18 lacks the wisdom and emotional maturity to do so. When 18 (and younger) is called upon to do so due to adverse circumstances or parental neglect, it is unfortunate.

People in their 20's should be allowed to play football, sure. (Putting aside the concussions issue, which is another debate.) I assume you mean college football. But here's where we will differ again: Scholastic sports should be a minor adjunct to the college experience. Kids should not be going to college just to play sports, nor should it be the all-encompassing activity that it has become. Nor should they be paid, which is going to open up another can of worms.

Simply said, young folks don't become adults until they are in their early 20's at the very least. Some of them later than that, and some never at all. People who are not adults should not be placed in adult situations because they are not equipped for them.

There, I believe I've shocked people enough with my old-fashioned thinking. I bid you all good day.

We are definitely cross posting some.

I'm really not a big fan of a bunch of old adults trying to write rules about things they don't understand. The guy can be old enough to be trusted driving a car but not to make as much money as he can off his own work?

Should Gabby Douglas have not been allowed in the Olympics when she was 16?

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Look, this thread started out as a commentary on how odd it is to see an act of cheating being severely punished for what is now known as "professional" video gaming. It devolved, however, into a commentary on whether minors should be even allowed to place themselves in a high-stakes, high-pressure situation like this.

Devolved?
Two problems with that word
First, if anything I'd say that the discussion about minors in these situations is "higher" than a discussion about cheating.
Second, "devolve" implies that evolution trends upward, while evolution does no such thing.

What this thread might do, though, is to encourage parents to monitor their children's activities more closely and to steer them away from this type of emotional distress if possible. There are reasons, as I alluded to before, why teenage suicide rates keep climbing.

Heh, I know I said "my final say" earlier. I don't know why I keep coming back here. Maybe because I take that kid at face value and I feel bad for him.

I hope you keep coming back. Your reasoned. voice is sorely lacking in these types of discussions

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Not sure whether this is in response to what I just posted or we crossed paths simultaneously. If it's not in response, I encourage you to read what I said and see if it changes your opinion at all.

I definitely agree with your cheating and punishment comment; that's a part of growing up (if supervised properly) from pre-kindergarten days.

This is what I respectfully take issue with: "He is 18. Teenagers are more in-tune to the online world than adults who think they always know best are." 18 is not an adult in my book. Does that shock you?

18 is old enough to know right from wrong; 18 is old enough to figure out a smartphone in minutes; 18 is old enough to work at a job and earn money; 18 is old enough to go to college. 18 is not old enough to handle adult situations because 18 lacks the wisdom and emotional maturity to do so. When 18 (and younger) is called upon to do so due to adverse circumstances or parental neglect, it is unfortunate.

People in their 20's should be allowed to play football, sure. (Putting aside the concussions issue, which is another debate.) I assume you mean college football. But here's where we will differ again: Scholastic sports should be a minor adjunct to the college experience. Kids should not be going to college just to play sports, nor should it be the all-encompassing activity that it has become. Nor should they be paid, which is going to open up another can of worms.

Simply said, young folks don't become adults until they are in their early 20's at the very least. Some of them later than that, and some never at all. People who are not adults should not be placed in adult situations because they are not equipped for them.

There, I believe I've shocked people enough with my old-fashioned thinking. I bid you all good day.

This doesn't feel like old-fashioned thinking at all.


I don't agree with everything you posted but hard agree on the overimportance of sports in college (and high school, and earlier). If that were reversed the idea of paying college players would be moot. And hard agree on what adults are. There's often augments on whether teenagers (I don't mean this strictly literally) should be treated as adults or children. I'd say neither. Because they are neither. They are something in between and neither the rules for children nor adults apply.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by dkgo

I'm really not a big fan of a bunch of old adults trying to write rules about things they don't understand. The guy can be old enough to be trusted driving a car but not to make as much money as he can off his own work?

Yes
Well, maybe
Driving a car and dealing with the repricussions of wealth, fame and growing up in the public eye are two completely unrelated skills.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by dkgo

I'm really not a big fan of a bunch of old adults trying to write rules about things they don't understand.

Heh, I refuse to take umbrage at this! You know, there is something positive about people getting older and wiser so that they can advise younger folks but in this culture, that's been somewhat lost to our detriment. Maybe I do understand this stuff better than you think. I raised three kids in the 1990's and none of them were ever in trouble with the law, none of them were ever on drugs, none of them ever had an emotional breakdown, and one of them, a new parent himself, is starting to sound a lot like me. Some wisdom is timeless.

Originally Posted by dkgo

Should Gabby Douglas have not been allowed in the Olympics when she was 16?

Yes, she should not. Shocked again?

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

Devolved?
Two problems with that word
First, if anything I'd say that the discussion about minors in these situations is "higher" than a discussion about cheating.
Second, "devolve" implies that evolution trends upward, while evolution does no such thing.

Well, yes, I said that out of respect to Cobra Mgr who may have seen this thread as going off the track to some extent.

Originally Posted by CBeisbol

I hope you keep coming back. Your reasoned n voice is sorely lacking in these types of discussions

Thanks, CB.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Great post, Cobra Mgr. Except that I am for a bit more shielding until kids are indeed "ready for the real world."

Thanks. An illustration given to me when I was a child: You compress a spring in a close hand, what happens when you suddenly release your fist? It is going to jump in any direction. But what if you gradually open your hand? It will stand in place. Same w/kids. You keep a "closed fist" when they come into the world, but you gradually let them solve problems & overcome obstacles til the point they are ready to stand firm on their own. If you keep shielding them, they will never maintain control once they leave your grip.

The parents in this case had an opportunity just as my folks did when I started raking yards & mowing lawns as a pre teen. The amount of money & fame didn't matter. You teach responsibility, saving, maintaining your rep, how to view things long and short term. This is all the natural process of raising children. For parents today, YouTube can just be the modern age lemonade stand.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

Thanks. An illustration given to me when I was a child: You compress a spring in a close hand, what happens when you suddenly release your fist? It is going to jump in any direction. But what if you gradually open your hand? It will stand in place. Same w/kids. You keep a "closed fist" when they come into the world, but you gradually let them solve problems & overcome obstacles til the point they are ready to stand firm on their own. If you keep shielding them, they will never maintain control once they leave your grip.

But no reason you have to first compress the spring. The compressed spring isn't the natural state. Better to balance the spring in your hand only gripping it when it's about to fall.

Way too many parents compress the spring needlessly. Never letting their children take the slightest step in the wrong direction which leaves the children completely unprepared for when they are on their own and will, undoubtedly, make missteps.

For parents today, YouTube can just be the modern age lemonade stand.

This is true
The biggest problem being many parents don't have any experience with this lemonade stand and don't know what it is or how it works

[Boomcoach]

I think the idea that children shouldn't be treated as adults and shouldn't be earning adult money until they are 21 is interesting, especially when it is being called an "old-fashioned idea". It is actually a pretty recent idea. Through at least the 50's and into the 60's, leaving school at 16 to join the workforce was fairly common. Prior to the 50's it was very common.

I am 60, so an old fart, but not an ancient mariner. Up to my generation, by 18, a large portion of the age group was already married, with a child or one on the way, or else in military service.

[GeoWar]

Quotes ----I'm really not a big fan of a bunch of old adults trying to write rules about things they don't understand. The guy can be old enough to be trusted driving a car but not to make as much money as he can off his own work.

I am OLD --- old enough to drive a car ?? I drove farm tractors and trucks when I was nine (** at 11 I moved tractors from one field to the other ) .... at 18 after High School I was drafted and sent to basic training to learn to kill other people .... I had hunted with a gun since I was 7 mostly a 22 rifle.... I was NOT able to drink till I was 21 .... I was NOT able to vote till 21 . ....

Not make as much money off his work -- on the farms when I was young I made 25 cents an hour ** older family age workers made 50 cents an hour .... When I was 16 I made $1.25 an hour and worked 20 hours a week with school and sports. .... TODAY's kids want $11 to $15 dollars an hour to flip burgers part time -- min. wage is a part time and learning wage so people can learn a skill and be advanced in pay as you learn -- a Living wage should be paid to people who have developed skills

Today's kids want TO BE PAID (money) but then they want mom and dad to pay their health insurance till they are 26 (** some employers around here will pay young workers who remain on mom and dad's insurance a little extra --- they also will do that for older workers who will go on Medicare )

^^^ sometimes older as experience that young people still need to get .

[Déjà Bru]

Guys, I don't mean to keep stoking this thread. Personally, I want to be done with it. And by no means am I "jealous." I've make my pile, and I'm happy with it.

But when I see this type of thing, I feel it's just wrong. Why it's wrong is up to debate, as we have seen here. I mean, seriously?

Eight-year-old is YouTube's highest earner with $26 million



My takeaways:

1) How normal a childhood do you think this young fellow will have?

2) What kind of an adult will he be? (Philanthropic, I hope, but I suspect warped.)

3) There is way too much money in circulation so that it can be concentrated and wasted like this.

4) This kid's already got $26 million while families struggle making ends meet, working double shifts, skipping meals to pay the rent.

I don't care what you say about being allowed such freedom at a young age and getting with the times, granddad. This is not right.

[Cobra Mgr]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

My takeaways:

1) How normal a childhood do you think this young fellow will have?

It depends largely on the parenting. You keep thinking money forces people to change or behave in a certain way like they don't have a choice. It affects you if you allow it to.

2) What kind of an adult will he be? (Philanthropic, I hope, but I suspect warped.)

See 1)

3) There is way too much money in circulation so that it can be concentrated and wasted like this.

No arguments there. We live in a world where Amazon can get a tax refund, Wal-Mart can qualify for a government contract reserved for small businesses, but the government can't assure everyday citizens can afford the medicine they need to live. This is why I pray, because nothing man does can offer any solution to life's problems when they are centered on personal greed.

4) This kid's already got $26 million while families struggle making ends meet, working double shifts, skipping meals to pay the rent.

Is this the kid or his family's fault? If people are stupid enough to throw money their way, it is their right to take it. All over the world priorities are out of whack. But I don't see anything wrong w/the kid making bank in this present system. Again, pray. Seriously. We all will have to answer for what we've done with the life we've been given. So if things like this bother us, IMO we should all pay more attention to what we do ourselves instead of how others use their lives.

[CBeisbol]

Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr

It depends largely on the parenting. You keep thinking money forces people to change or behave in a certain way like they don't have a choice. It affects you if you allow it to.

See 1)

No arguments there. We live in a world where Amazon can get a tax refund, Wal-Mart can qualify for a government contract reserved for small businesses, but the government can't assure everyday citizens can afford the medicine they need to live. This is why I pray, because nothing man does can offer any solution to life's problems when they are centered on personal greed.

Is this the kid or his family's fault? If people are stupid enough to throw money their way, it is their right to take it. All over the world priorities are out of whack. But I don't see anything wrong w/the kid making bank in this present system. Again, pray. Seriously. We all will have to answer for what we've done with the life we've been given. So if things like this bother us, IMO we should all pay more attention to what we do ourselves instead of how others use their lives.

As usual I largely disagree with Cobra MGR and believe the source of his thinking is way off.

No. Having money at a young age doesn't force prime to change or behave in a certain way. And no reasonable and knowledgeable person would say that.

What it does do is put people into different situations than most people face. Give them different opportunities.

Yes. It does depend on the parenting. But, the parents are no different than the kids in that they are, likely, unprepared for this as well.

That so many people who come into this type of wealth/power/fame also come into similar problems does strongly imply that it's not just a matter of personal responsibility.

That some people survive a bullet to the head or cancer doesn't mean they were stronger or better than someone who died.