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Old 03-28-2013, 03:19 PM   #81
BigCity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wolf View Post
Now I found that to be really insulting.

Everybody wants the game they want, including you. You seem to be ignorant of the fact that your side's requests show zero concern for what I and others want, the best possible text-based sim. You demand eye candy and we disagree. But our motives are at least as pure and honest as yours are.

Can we please discuss the issue and not get personal about it? We disagree, that's all.
Interesting how I feel insulted by your comments and you blow it off with "you can be insulted if you want to". I make a statement that insults you and you call it getting personal. Fine, I'm sorry. I wasn't intending to insult anyone - just trying to figure out where you really are.

Look Wolf, I'm not looking for a fight, but I offered embellishments that do not effect the text engine, and can be turned off if you don't' want to deal with it. In effect, can be configured so you dont' know they are even there.

You, on the other hand, effectively tell me I have no concern for your wishes. Either I'm not explaining myself properly, or you are ignoring the fact I "AM" taking your wants to heart.

Which is it?
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:26 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by BigCity View Post
Interesting how I feel insulted by your comments and you blow it off with "you can be insulted if you want to". I make a statement that insults you and you call it getting personal. Fine, I'm sorry. I wasn't intending to insult anyone - just trying to figure out where you really are.

Look Wolf, I'm not looking for a fight, but I offered embellishments that do not effect the text engine, and can be turned off if you don't' want to deal with it. In effect, can be configured so you dont' know they are even there.

You, on the other hand, effectively tell me I have no concern for your wishes. Either I'm not explaining myself properly, or you are ignoring the fact I "AM" taking your wants to heart.

Which is it?

BigCity save your typing fingers. This is standard Wolf behavior. He repeats his position repeatedly and with barbs and sarcasm for those who dare challenge him and then when he can't argue the position anymore he grabs at the slightest thing to claim you are insulting, childish or a complete moron.

I'm sure he will read this and jump on me next but it won't be the first or probably last time.

I should probably put him on ignore but I have never done that with any poster and don't really want to start
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:43 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by BigCity View Post
Interesting how I feel insulted by your comments and you blow it off with "you can be insulted if you want to". I make a statement that insults you and you call it getting personal. Fine, I'm sorry. I wasn't intending to insult anyone - just trying to figure out where you really are.

Look Wolf, I'm not looking for a fight, but I offered embellishments that do not effect the text engine, and can be turned off if you don't' want to deal with it. In effect, can be configured so you dont' know they are even there.

You, on the other hand, effectively tell me I have no concern for your wishes. Either I'm not explaining myself properly, or you are ignoring the fact I "AM" taking your wants to heart.

Which is it?
It's neither. You just don't get it. Your side wants my side to accept less features so that your side can have graphics. There are limited resources. We don't want them wasted on graphics.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 03-28-2013, 03:44 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by DCG12 View Post
BigCity save your typing fingers. This is standard Wolf behavior. He repeats his position repeatedly and with barbs and sarcasm for those who dare challenge him and then when he can't argue the position anymore he grabs at the slightest thing to claim you are insulting, childish or a complete moron.

I'm sure he will read this and jump on me next but it won't be the first or probably last time.

I should probably put him on ignore but I have never done that with any poster and don't really want to start
Can you please (A) stay out of this discussion, which I am trying to keep civil despite people like you, and (B) put me on ignore, because I have zero interest in sharing anything with people like you, who have to make every single thing on the board personal.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:46 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by BigCity View Post
Interesting how I feel insulted by your comments and you blow it off with "you can be insulted if you want to". I make a statement that insults you and you call it getting personal. Fine, I'm sorry. I wasn't intending to insult anyone - just trying to figure out where you really are.

Look Wolf, I'm not looking for a fight, but I offered embellishments that do not effect the text engine, and can be turned off if you don't' want to deal with it. In effect, can be configured so you dont' know they are even there.

You, on the other hand, effectively tell me I have no concern for your wishes. Either I'm not explaining myself properly, or you are ignoring the fact I "AM" taking your wants to heart.

Which is it?
This is exactly what it is:

Quote:
Originally Posted by oman19 View Post
They only have a very limited number of people working on OOTP. The opportunity cost of trying to work on something like this can't help but hinder the progress of other features they could be working on.
Can't you understand what he wrote? It's clear as glass.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:51 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by The Wolf View Post
Can you please (A) stay out of this discussion, which I am trying to keep civil despite people like you, and (B) put me on ignore, because I have zero interest in sharing anything with people like you, who have to make every single thing on the board personal.

I have been as civil or more so than you. What exactly is a "person like me"? Just because I don't have 17,000 posts like you doesn't mean I don't have a right to post in a discussion. I have not made anything personal and I dare say that after playing every version since OOTP 4 on a near daily basis and being on the beta team for 4 years I might have an insight or two to offer.
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:52 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by DCG12 View Post
I have been as civil or more so than you. What exactly is a "person like me"? Just because I don't have 17,000 posts like you doesn't mean I don't have a right to post in a discussion. I have not made anything personal and I dare say that after playing every version since OOTP 4 on a near daily basis and being on the beta team for 4 years I might have an insight or two to offer.
Please put me on ignore. Thanks. Bye.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:02 PM   #88
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Please put me on ignore. Thanks. Bye.
Works both ways you know. You could just put "people like me on ignore"
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:02 PM   #89
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You can always break the graphics away from the core program.
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:04 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by DCG12 View Post
BigCity save your typing fingers. This is standard Wolf behavior. He repeats his position repeatedly and with barbs and sarcasm for those who dare challenge him and then when he can't argue the position anymore he grabs at the slightest thing to claim you are insulting, childish or a complete moron.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCG12 View Post
I have not made anything personal
Right. Put me on ignore please.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:05 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by DCG12 View Post
Works both ways you know. You could just put "people like me on ignore"
I will gladly do so if you will. I asked you first, so after you.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:06 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Cras View Post
You can always break the graphics away from the core program.
That would still require OOTP resources.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

Five thousand thanks for a non-modder? I never thought I'd see the day. Thank you for your support.
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:08 PM   #93
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That would still require OOTP resources.

The point of it being to allow someone else to develop the graphics. It would require some sure, but not as much as having the same people who are working on the core also trying to make graphics that are whatever quality.
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:15 PM   #94
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I really wonder how much more Markus could add to the simulation piece, based on today's knowledge of the game. I mean, I guess he could add Pitch/FX or something like that...maybe?

Otherwise, a lot of what OOTP adds each year is just window-dressing on top of the game simulation that's already there (see the new playoff screen, for example). Markus constantly improves the trade AI, roster AI, etc., but I really doubt there's real payback there. Sure, people like to see these aspects improved, but short of injecting REAL GM personality code (beyond today's state-of-the-art AI in my opinion) Markus may actually be left with a very short list of real changes that he can make to the engine.

I'd love to hear from Wolf (and I'm being serious here) what major simulation additions Markus could make.
I'm with you on this one as well. I'd love to see an answer here as well. Not for the sake of an argument but just because maybe there is something I'm missing with the simulation engine that I wasn't aware I was missing. Honestly, if there was something I thought the sim engine was missing or getting wrong I'd agree that I'd rather it be fixed before adding anything more asthetically pleasing.
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:20 PM   #95
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The point of it being to allow someone else to develop the graphics. It would require some sure, but not as much as having the same people who are working on the core also trying to make graphics that are whatever quality.
This is the thing though, we are talking about simple ball flight graphics not full bore 3D type stuff so time spent shouldn't be extraordinary. Andreas and the other members of the team already work on other stuff anyway. Markus does most of the coding for the game engine. If Shaun could do it by himself with Puresim,I am sure Markus and team could improve what they have with out having the sim engine taking a back seat.

I just feel that saying that no time should ever be spent anywhere but on the simulation is short-sighted. As I said in an earlier post time is already spent on making the on-line game work better for commishes and time is spent on the GUI etc. so its not like the sim engine is getting undivided attention now.
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:24 PM   #96
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I'm with you on this one as well. I'd love to see an answer here as well. Not for the sake of an argument but just because maybe there is something I'm missing with the simulation engine that I wasn't aware I was missing. Honestly, if there was something I thought the sim engine was missing or getting wrong I'd agree that I'd rather it be fixed before adding anything more asthetically pleasing.

Well there is some stuff that could be added.

AI logic is always something that can be worked on.

Reserve era stuff could be expanded. As it stands there is rampant goofiness when you don't have draft in the league. For example, still getting major league ready players showing up in the FA who can just walk in and dominate, the Rule 5 draft is broken in this instance because if a player walks in and is high enough quality that his rookie deal ends up being a big league contract, he will immediately be exposed to the Rule 5 draft, which actually does not matter at all because the AI will not touch the Rule 5 draft. Ever.

Contracts can be expanded upon further. There is still no option to defer salary, no interactions with the owner for extra funds being released for that playoff push (I mention this because it was supposed to be in the game already).

OOTP is great game but there is still room for improvement.
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:28 PM   #97
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This is the thing though, we are talking about simple ball flight graphics not full bore 3D type stuff so time spent shouldn't be extraordinary. Andreas and the other members of the team already work on other stuff anyway. Markus does most of the coding for the game engine. If Shaun could do it by himself with Puresim,I am sure Markus and team could improve what they have with out having the sim engine taking a back seat.

I just feel that saying that no time should ever be spent anywhere but on the simulation is short-sighted. As I said in an earlier post time is already spent on making the on-line game work better for commishes and time is spent on the GUI etc. so its not like the sim engine is getting undivided attention now.
The game has capability in it already for mods, why can't the game be expanded so that graphics be included in that? If some guy out there wants to tap into some an API to create more fancy ball flight graphics, then go for it. If someone wants to tap into it to create a graphic representation of the games that resembles FM's 2D thing (which is actually how I still play FM, 3D matches, please....), then go knock yourself out. Take it out of the hands of the devs and throw it to the mod community.

But that might not be how Markus and Co want to go with OOTP.
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:38 PM   #98
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The game has capability in it already for mods, why can't the game be expanded so that graphics be included in that? If some guy out there wants to tap into some an API to create more fancy ball flight graphics, then go for it. If someone wants to tap into it to create a graphic representation of the games that resembles FM's 2D thing (which is actually how I still play FM, 3D matches, please....), then go knock yourself out. Take it out of the hands of the devs and throw it to the mod community.

But that might not be how Markus and Co want to go with OOTP.
I agree that would be awesome. The kink in the line might be how much under the hood stuff it would take and if that info might be more than Markus wants to share.

Edit: Cras I am curious about your comment that the AI won't touch the Rule 5 ever. Is this only in a league without a draft as you descibe or all leagues?
I know I have lost players to AI controled teams in the past. Enough so that i am very diligent about checking my minors prior to the draft.

Last edited by DCG12; 03-28-2013 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:52 PM   #99
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This was when there is no amateur draft, that whole mechanism seems off, players are never protected from the draft unless on the 40-man roster, no AI ever take players, they don't seem to care to protect players, so there was a time when I first turned on the Rule 5 draft and was able to snag some top players. I reported it as a bug a while ago, not sure if anything came of it.

Option years are a bit off too. Something about having the amateur draft off just kinda confuses the AI. I know I am not being very specific, but there are just things that I used to be able to get away with before that I just cant now that I have the amateur draft on, like for example before I had no issue in cutting a guy from my major league roster and putting him in AAA who could easily play for plenty of other clubs, but last Spring Training, he got claimed by pretty much every club on waivers and I was forced to trade him (I wasn't about to loose him for nothing, and my pitching staff was loaded and he had no chance of making the club).
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:55 PM   #100
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Ok thanks
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